Old Septic System Removal

[autoist]

Kinda off topic but could affect anybody considering the build of a new garage...

My wife inherited her family's country farm in Tennessee; her family has owned it since before the War of Northern Aggression. The old house was built around 1939 after the original house burned, & somewhere along its history it acquired a septic system.

The house has been empty since she inherited it & we're considering tearing it down and building a new house (old house is in sad shape and the cost of bringing it back is way over the cost of a new one, much less its value)....it has no real architctural significance and was built over time to meet the family's needs - nothing fancy to be sure.

The other day, we were looking at our costs to prep the site & found the old septic tank had a corner of the top broken off....so, I've hired a company to come pump it in preparation of making it and the surrounding ground safe (the new drive will cross part of the system's outflow area (which during the last few years of usage was mushy when walking over it).

I don't know what the tank is made of but am guessing the old concrete blocks....

There are no inspections or covenant requirements required during the destruction and construction...I'm talking WAAAY out in the country (but real close to Dale Hollow Lake!).

What to do?

 

[SUPERCOUPE]

Why not wait until you have it pumped, and sprayed and pumped it out again yourslef? Then you can go in to determine it's actual condition If it's only a broken corner and you have no inspection issues requiring a solid unit installation, why replace if fixable? The leach field can be redirected to a new area or feed pipe under the drive can be reinforced and the field extended beyond it. You don't sound like you'll be gettin city water/sewer any time soon. Save yer dough for the country home!

 

[autoist]

Water is there - got there about 10 years ago (though the old spring house pump still brings some of the cleanest, sweetest water to the surface as always) but there's no plan for sewer.

The new house will require a septic system closer to it than the old one plus why go with the old one that has been around 50 or more years?

I'm told that when an old underground tank is left empty for some time, the chances of it collapsing and possibly causing safety issues above ground are greater than if full and that the probability of collapse grows exponentially - don't know, just what I've been told and have read; but, I don't remember the hole in the top in the 40 years I've been visiting there while it was used.

Plus, I've got a 3-year-old grandson who'll be visiting as he grows up & will certainly want to explore (he's a city kid).

 

[SUPERCOUPE]

Ah, thanx! I learned something there too! Still can't understand why anybody would want that nasty city water? Modern seed production has made agriculture much more environmentally friendly. What's left of the fear that brought us lousy water from the cities? Here, they call it 'rural water' and it'll go from swimmin pool to swamp in the time it takes warm water to hit the tap. Bleauk!

 

[Torque1st]

Most of the time an old septic tank is just caved in by a backhoe and filled in.

 

[Kevin54]

It might not be an old septic tank. At 50 years old and cinder block it might be an old cistern that was used to collect water for use later on. If you are not going to build on top of it, then as Torque1 stated, they bust them up and bury them. I have also seen some just filled with sand and left in the ground.

 

[lawfarm]

In one of the cities I represent, the "official health department" methods of dealing with old septic tanks are to either remove them (which leaves disposal issues), or to cave in the top and backfill the tank with sand. (Not sure why, but sand is the only acceptable material).

Even if it were usable, if it is that old and 1 corner caved in on its own, I'd probably go with a new tank rather than trying to reuse it. If it is a cistern, you may want to consider keeping it for a myriad of reasons (irrigation, fire protection, etc.)

 

[Cobra5150]

Bust and bury.

 

[autoist]

No, it isn't a cistern - its the old septic....we'll have the backhoe that'll do site work cave it in & I'll have them fill the hole with sand before laying new topsoil for lawn.....thanks.

I suppose then I'll just lay new top soil over the part of the old seep field that'll be lawn &, as they prep & build the drive, let the graders do their thing.

 

[jay50]

No, it isn't a cistern - its the old septic....we'll have the backhoe that'll do site work cave it in & I'll have them fill the hole with sand before laying new topsoil for lawn.....thanks.

I suppose then I'll just lay new top soil over the part of the old seep field that'll be lawn &, as they prep & build the drive, let the graders do their thing.

Might want to take some pics of the fill-in with sand just in case it is even questioned in the future as to how it was done....

 

[autoist]

Good idea, jay...

At the same time I get heavy equipment in to do that, I think I'll also have them cave in the old storm cellar & fill it....that thing was built when my daughter was 6-or-so & she's 37 now.

We're going up next week to get site prep going...guess I need to buy a camper trailer as a temporary living space while we're tackling the project.

Here's the "TO 2" list I've developed so far (& anybody tackling an old homestead could also use it):

1) Pump old septic tank/cave in & backfill with sand.
2) Level/fill old storm cellar.
3) Disconnect elec/water from old house.
4) Set temporary electric meter for construction.
5) Bring-in one of those prefab garages to use as storage for furniture from old house
6) Remove old appliances/water heater/fuse panel (its the type with screw-in fuses - no circuit breakers) & everything else necessary for burning/demolishion.
7) Talk w/local volunteer fire department to see if they want to use the burning of the old house for a training session - - if not, contact a heavy equipment firm to demolish house.
8) Dig big hole to bury old, burned house.
9) Contract local builder for new construction

& that's just to start! Plus, I have to redo our electric fence, moving it away from the construction so cattle are safe....etc., etc., etc.....

 

[MisterCMK]

I hope you take lots of pictures before and during the deconstruction. I get a kick out of seeing old houses/farmsteads and whatnot as it is kind of interesting to see the history in them.

 

[Ray-CA]

"5) Bring-in one of those prefab garages to use as storage for furniture from old house"

How about getting one of the Sea-land type containers? Lots of them around and I think that some are for rent as well as for sale. They get dropped off, no real site work needed and you can get them from 24-feet long to 57-feet long.

Ray

PS: like one of these http://www.midstatecontainer.com/product

 

[Bustawrench]

Most of the time an old septic tank is just caved in by a backhoe and filled in.

That's what they did when they replaced my septic system a couple of months ago..........the county and state inspectors signed off on it, so it must be leagle.

 

[rsanter]

before tearing the house down, there may be stuff there that is valuable that you dont even realize. even some of the basic old doors and trim are desirable to a person trying to restore an old home.
you should offer to let someone come in and take some of that old stuff and you might even be able to get some money out of it

bob

 

[autoist]

How about getting one of the Sea-land type containers? Lots of them around and I think that some are for rent as well as for sale. They get dropped off, no real site work needed and you can get them from 24-feet long to 57-feet long.

As for the prefab garage - they make them out of wood that look nice as permanent storage....my wife's mother always drove little VW's & as each of her daughters left for college, she gave them her old one & bought a new one....her last one is a '73...after everything is finished, I'm gonna "take the little Bug home" & will store it in that garage.

before tearing the house down, there may be stuff there that is valuable that you dont even realize. even some of the basic old doors and trim are desirable to a person trying to restore an old home.
you should offer to let someone come in and take some of that old stuff and you might even be able to get some money out of it

We've already started thinking about that....I certainly want to try & save as much of the old hardwood floors as posible; thought I might get enough to do the dining room and/or the living room in the new house. &, after all the furniture is sorted for what's to keep & what's to sell at antique shop, we'll walk around & look for other things to salvage & transfer to the new house.

Next week when we visit, we'll be looking at things differently than in the past; & I expect some emotions from wife.

 

[garage rookie]

Have you thought of on-site security issues? Unless you're gonna be there from demo to turnkey I'd think about it in these economic times. I know around Chatt. things are being stolen from sites every night.

 

[kmcc927]

Just make sure they break up the bottom of the tank so it doesn't hold water. You don't want a soft spot in the drive or yard.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Good idea, jay...

At the same time I get heavy equipment in to do that, I think I'll also have them cave in the old storm cellar & fill it....that thing was built when my daughter was 6-or-so & she's 37 now.

We're going up next week to get site prep going...guess I need to buy a camper trailer as a temporary living space while we're tackling the project.

Here's the "TO 2" list I've developed so far (& anybody tackling an old homestead could also use it):

1) Pump old septic tank/cave in & backfill with sand.
2) Level/fill old storm cellar.
3) Disconnect elec/water from old house.
4) Set temporary electric meter for construction.
5) Bring-in one of those prefab garages to use as storage for furniture from old house
6) Remove old appliances/water heater/fuse panel (its the type with screw-in fuses - no circuit breakers) & everything else necessary for burning/demolishion.
7) Talk w/local volunteer fire department to see if they want to use the burning of the old house for a training session - - if not, contact a heavy equipment firm to demolish house.
8) Dig big hole to bury old, burned house.
9) Contract local builder for new construction

& that's just to start! Plus, I have to redo our electric fence, moving it away from the construction so cattle are safe....etc., etc., etc.....

What kind of siding and insulation is on the old house? If it is asbestos you may want to start the fire before you call the fire dept. Or just have it knocked down into its basement and covered over by your excavater. If the fire dept comes out to decide if they want to use it as a training site and see a bunch of asbestos siding the cleanup of the asbestos may use up all your money for the new house. Good luck with your house, I got 5 acres of my grandparents farm to build on, and got grandpas old tractors too.A place with a history is the best. Mike

 

[mrsleeve]

.
8) Dig big hole to bury old, burned house.

Just a FYI over time as those scraps you buried decay and rot away, it will leave a void under ground, get enough voids and you will get a big sink hole. In my house we had in MI, we moved in 3 year after it was built, the builder buried all the scrap in the side yard, the summer before we moved it took a FULL lead load of fill to fill the hole in. My neighbor there that I still chat with, says its visible again this summer

 

[autoist]

Mike in Ohio: Hmmmmm....gotta check the old siding & insulation - how would I know?

mrsleeve: Thanks. I've always wondered about that...I'm gonna dig the hole out in a field to the side of the house - hay field & grazing for cattle.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Mike in Ohio: Hmmmmm....gotta check the old siding & insulation - how would I know?

mrsleeve: Thanks. I've always wondered about that...I'm gonna dig the hole out in a field to the side of the house - hay field & grazing for cattle.

I"m not entirely sure. I you know someone who is an old time contractor they could tell for sure. Around here they used asbestos insulation on the heating ducts. The one house I have seen with the siding on it looked alot like a roof shingle with a fake wood pattern stamped into it. Alot of houses around here had a fake brick pattern too. From what I understand it is pretty harmless if left alone but when disturbed the dust is what is very bad for you.

 

[autoist]

UPDATE:

So, today the septic tank was pumped...took an hour..guy estimated it is 500 gal & was 3/4 full...its an old homemade septic tank from the late 40's/early 50's....sides are concrete blocks, bottom concrete, top a thin layer of concrete over wood.

I'd asked the county guy to stop by to take a look & he did about an hour after the pump guys had left & about the time the dozer guy pulled up....he looked at my receipt for pumping, looked down inside the old tank & we've got our marching orders! Saturday, all we've gotta do is push it in & backfill with dirt!

At the same time on Saturday, the dozer guy is going to push the old storm cellar in and backfill it & then smooth the area around it.

Also had some guys in earlier in the week to cut down some old, dead trees. He also came by & I pointed out a few more old trees that have to go. Tomorrow, he's taking them down while I move the electric fence to give the dozer guy enough space to work.

Lots done so far!!