Old Snap On Socket Help "Hand Stamped Logo?"

[MysteriousGT1]

Anyone Have any Info on What this Stamp is, It Looks like a 1940 Design but it Has what Looks like a Date Code "2" and a Big A "Hand Stamped" Snap-on Logo!

This is the Only One i have Seen like this!

Any Feedback is Appreciated!

Thanks

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The "2" is undoubtedly the 1942 date of production stamp, which is uncommon enough to begin with. The only date stamp more uncommon for Snap-on wartime production is a 1943 "3". Empirically, from survivors, it looks like they started off modestly and quickly ramped up their production during the war, peaking in 1944 and 1945, and public contract records and their 50th anniversary stakeholders meeting booklet confirm that.

That all caps font style on the branding is also uncommon, in my experience, and smacks of third party or limited production to me.

Lastly, I think that "big A" you are seeing is part of a stamp that reads "PAT". That "2195297" stamp is the number for a patent granted in 1940 for a mold for pressing out hot-forged parts, such as the halves of a universal joint. CORRECTION: Misread patent number. See post #15.




I don't recall seeing that patent number on any Snap-on socket before.

I am tagging a couple other collectors to make sure they see this. @snapmom @Oldtuleguy

 

[MysteriousGT1]

The "2" is undoubtedly the 1942 date of production stamp, which is uncommon enough to begin with. The only date stamp more uncommon for Snap-on wartime production is a 1943 "3". Empirically, from survivors, it looks like they started off modestly and quickly ramped up their production during the war, peaking in 1944 and 1945, and public contract records and their 50th anniversary stakeholders meeting booklet confirm that.

That all caps font style on the branding is also uncommon, in my experience, and smacks of third party or limited production to me.

Lastly, I think that "big A" you are seeing is part of a stamp that reads "PAT". That "2195297" stamp is the number for a patent granted in 1940 for a mold for pressing out hot-forged parts, such as the halves of a universal joint.




I don't recall seeing that patent number on any Snap-on socket before.

I am tagging a couple other collectors to make sure they see this. @snapmom @Oldtuleguy

Thanks for the Info, The Big A Referance was to the Snap On Print, All Letters Were Uppercase Instead of the Usual Lower Case Print in the Standard Logo....Got that from Older Hazet Wrenches that People Call Little A!

This is Definatly a Strange Find for Me, And i Have Seen Alot of Snapon from this Era...I Appreciate The Help!

 

[Ricky Joe]

.

 

[d42jeep]

I have to agree with RJ on the year stamp. These are 1942 sockets.
-Don

 

[MysteriousGT1]

I have to agree with RJ on the year stamp. These are 1942 sockets.
-Don

Is it Possible if My Socket was Stamped by a 3rd Party Helping the War Effort, that they Just stamped it with the 2 They Had at the time Knowing Snapon had Date Codes to Obide by?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, RJ and Don. I have a few 1942 tools, and you'll brook no argument from me that the stamp in question is not the factory 1942 "2", some of which are undetectable the figure is so tucked in on itself, especially when stamped deeply. Note, though, that the "SNAP-ON" stamp is not typical factory for 1942, either. Are we doubting that it's Snap-on because of that? If not, then why doubt the "2" signifies 1942? I'll just say that I don't know what else it would be sitting off by itself on the opposite side of a wartime socket with a 1940 patent number and an unusual, atypical branding stamp on it and leave it that, because I'm not too hung up on defending it being 1942. It may or may not be relevant and it's definitely not the most interesting aspect of the socket, for me. More relevant and more interesting is the patent number implying a construction technique that none of us, as far as I know (@snapmom has not yet chimed in), were aware of, whether it was stamped on sockets or not.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Is it Possible if My Socket was Stamped by a 3rd Party Helping the War Effort, that they Just stamped it with the 2 They Had at the time Knowing Snapon had Date Codes to Obide by?

Since I already made my conjecture...

...and smacks of third party or limited production to me.

...I'll just agree with you!

I think the chances of it being subcontract production are very high.

That patent number is awfully different and intriguing though. Because it doesn't regularly show up on other Snap-on wartime sockets, including swivels (I have a complete Ferret set, all "E" or "G"), are we reasonably safe in interpreting it to mean that the subcontractor made their pieces with that machinery and had to stamp it by licensing agreement, whereas Kenosha didn't?

 

[snapmom]

The best clue to this is the bands around the knurling. this has two bands, one above and one below. there is no exact year this was changed to one band but most have been changed in the mid to late 40s.. (see pic). this would say that it is late 30s to early 40s.. its a odd one, even the logo is odd, no dash in the middle of the Snap on logo that I can see. The number 2 looks factory, looks like the 2 in the pat. number. but it does not look like a 42 code, but its possible as it would fit the time line.
A good guess would be 42 give or take a couple of years. I cannot remember (my brain is getting old) seeing one like this, but there were lots of changes going on during the time line. the band applies to ferret and mostly SW 1/2 dr sockets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The patent was owned by Carboloy, Inc., in Detroit. EDIT: Correction. See post #15.

 

[MysteriousGT1]

The best clue to this is the bands around the knurling. this has two bands, one above and one below. there is no exact year this was changed to one band but most have been changed in the mid to late 40s.. (see pic). this would say that it is late 30s to early 40s.. its a odd one, even the logo is odd, no dash in the middle of the Snap on logo that I can see. The number 2 looks factory, looks like the 2 in the pat. number. but it does not look like a 42 code, but its possible as it would fit the time line.
A good guess would be 42 give or take a couple of years. I cannot remember (my brain is getting old) seeing one like this, but there were lots of changes going on during the time line. the band applies to ferret and mostly SW 1/2 dr sockets.

Thanks for Chiming in, is there a Possibility that this was a Mock up of the New Socket in their Lineup to Show the Factories what the New line of Sockets would be?...I Dont know much about Snapons Processes but sometimes Companies make temp Examples to Show how it would work, As Samples to Dealers, or For Testing Purposes!

Could Explain why it doesnt have the Actual Underline Snapon Markings you see on all Customer Products!

And also whats the Earliest Ferret Swivel Socket "F14 or other" with a Actual Snap on Date Code that People have seen...Would be interesting if someone had a '40 to '42!

 

[snapmom]

There are hundreds of unknows like this in the history of Snap on, Every once in a while we solve one, but there is not enough evidence to say why on this particular day, the die setter did what he did. We just have to take a look at what clues we have and make an assumption.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

While that's sage advice on variations in markings, in general, for many tools, not just Snap-on, what do you make of the 1940 patent number, Snapmom? Were you aware of it before? Have you ever seen it in on a Snap-on socket before? Have you seen it mentioned in connection with Snap-on wartime production before?

 

[snapmom]

Here is one similar to yours. Has no bands, has the pat. number, has a number 1, which does not match the date code sheet for any year. Has the Snap/On logo with the slash. everything points to it being early 40s too. just different clues, So what happened that its not like the normal 1941 flex sockets, heck does anyone have a normal early 40s flex ferret socket.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

And...there's the correct patent number. 2196297. Snap-on owned it, explicitly for swivel joint sockets. I'll edit to reduce confusion.

 

[MysteriousGT1]

Here is one similar to yours. Has no bands, has the pat. number, has a number 1, which does not match the date code sheet for any year. Has the Snap/On logo with the slash. everything points to it being early 40s too. just different clues, So what happened that its not like the normal 1941 flex sockets, heck does anyone have a normal early 40s flex ferret socket.

Im Beginning to Wonder LoL

 

[snapmom]

I wonder a lot too. Wait to you find double and triple date codes on the same tool. what the heck!!

 

[MR.X]

Here is one similar to yours. Has no bands, has the pat. number, has a number 1, which does not match the date code sheet for any year. Has the Snap/On logo with the slash. everything points to it being early 40s too. just different clues, So what happened that its not like the normal 1941 flex sockets, heck does anyone have a normal early 40s flex ferret socket.

Is that a Whitworth?

 

[snapmom]

Yes, whitworth. and the other pic is metric.

 

[MysteriousGT1]

Is that a Whitworth?

I Have Gotten a British Standard Set Before...Been A Long Time, Wish i Still had it!

 

[d42jeep]

Here is one similar to yours. Has no bands, has the pat. number, has a number 1, which does not match the date code sheet for any year. Has the Snap/On logo with the slash. everything points to it being early 40s too. just different clues, So what happened that its not like the normal 1941 flex sockets, heck does anyone have a normal early 40s flex ferret socket.

Here is a 1/2” ferret universal socket with a conventional 1944 date code.
-Don

 

[Dave455]

Anyone Have any Info on What this Stamp is, It Looks like a 1940 Design but it Has what Looks like a Date Code "2" and a Big A "Hand Stamped" Snap-on Logo!

This is the Only One i have Seen like this!

Any Feedback is Appreciated!

Thanks

Is the “AT” marking not simply that - an “AT” numbered tool, as found in the tool kit’s in the U.S. for maintaining the Packard built Merlin‘s, or for export to the U.K?

What size is the socket?

Is it a 2BA?

 

[MR.X]

Is the “AT” marking not simply that - an “AT” numbered tool, as found in the tool kit’s in the U.S. for maintaining the Packard built Merlin‘s, or for export to the U.K?

What size is the socket?

Is it a 2BA?

Are you looking at the "AT" portion of the "PAT." mark?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It's definitely a patent number, Dave. I read the number wrong from the OP's photos and, by sheer dumb and weird luck, it happened to be something reasonably relevant. Hence the confusing inferences. I've never seen a swivel socket with a patent and apparently nobody else who looked earlier had, either, or we would've had that straightened out sooner, but Snapmom posted an example that had the correct patent number. So that cleared up that part of the mystery. I still think it's possible it's sub work.

 

[snapmom]

I do not recall a ATxxxx flex socket made. This is a AT8020 snap on universal, 3/8 dr. with a 42 code. part of the Merlin Kit. has the double bands, pat. number. also has the F8 model number.

 

[Ricky Joe]

.

 

[MysteriousGT1]

Is the “AT” marking not simply that - an “AT” numbered tool, as found in the tool kit’s in the U.S. for maintaining the Packard built Merlin‘s, or for export to the U.K?

What size is the socket?

Is it a 2BA?

The Socket is a F14 7/16"...And I Also got a Better Pic of the PAT Mark

 

[Dave455]

Ahh yes - I couldn’t see the “P”!

 

[Steven 33]

It's definitely a patent number, Dave. I read the number wrong from the OP's photos and, by sheer dumb and weird luck, it happened to be something reasonably relevant. Hence the confusing inferences. I've never seen a swivel socket with a patent and apparently nobody else who looked earlier had, either, or we would've had that straightened out sooner, but Snapmom posted an example that had the correct patent number. So that cleared up that part of the mystery. I still think it's possible it's sub work.

Here's a 37 fu series and 37 f series and g code f series all very clear patent numbers but little differences

 

[Rusty Pickens]

Found this example of the uppercase "SNAP/on" logo (mentioned by OP) on a 3/8 to 1/4 drive socket. I'm guessing "G" indicates government use, but not sure if the the "|" is a number (1941?) or letter.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

M1 is 3/8 to 9/32 adapter. G is 1945

 

[Rusty Pickens]

Ah, thanks. So, an "E" date code would represent 1944, and all other years are stylized numerals?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Mostly, just Google snapon date codes a bunch of charts come up

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a couple.
-Don

 

[Rusty Pickens]

Here are a couple.
-Don

Thanks, Don. I was using a chart similar to the second one you show, but I misunderstood the application of "G", thinking it was used for all government contract production during the war rather than just 1945 specifically.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a rare 1943 date code.