Junkmanryan
Well-known member
Anybody ever heard of Tuff Tool?
Old tool brands to avoid
- Thread starter elmwood
- Start date
the wizard stuff was the highest line western auto offered. i find most of their tools quality. i have a lot of them. i ****** them up whenever i can. something about them i just like. ratchets are some of the best out there for the time, IMO. im not a fan of the styling of the sockets that were made by indestro, but they hold up well.
i justpicked up a soldering iron at a sale today because it was a wizard. green label and has a green power cord.
i justpicked up a soldering iron at a sale today because it was a wizard. green label and has a green power cord.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Yes, Wizard is very good. All made by Indestro-Duro. There were at least 3 grades of Indestro. The Duro was lowest, then Indestro Select, then Indestro Super. Wonder if some that don't like Indestro had the lower grade ones. I recently started a new Vintage Indestro Tools thread in the vintage section. We need to populate it guys!
Someone mentioned Buffalo as bad. YES ! Very bad! I have a set of Buffalo deep 1/2" sockets. Would you believe for 2 of the sockets in the set, the 6 point hex is not the same angle between the 6 points of it! It will NOT fit on a bolt head! I have to say, out of all my old vintage tool purchases, Buffalo is the very worst! Harbor Freight of its day in the 70's. Those are not US made though. I really have yet to find an example of terrible US made hand tools.
Some mentioned Globemaster as terrible. Well, depends. I have a Globemaster wrench made in Germany and it is quite good. Some of their sources were junk, others not so bad.
Stanley US is interesting. I do not like the old Stanley US screwdrivers with the acetate handles much, but what I hate even more are the more modern Stanley screwdrivers of recent years imported from China. I have a set of those and they all strip the Phillips immediately, with minimum torque applied. Now Stanley rachets, extensions, made in USA in recent decades are not too bad at all, very Proto like or Blackhawk like actually and a good buy for low priced tools I feel. I wonder if US Stanley is made on the same line as say Blackhawk now? Stanley also got all the New Britain patents and tooling when they went down. Wonder which Stanley products have at least some New Britain influence to them?
Fuller is another interesting one. Made in Canada sometimes, imported from Japan here in the states mainly. I love old Fuller Japan! Very good hand tools for the money, as good as the best of Craftsman V I feel. Can be had cheap when you find them.
Gray Canada is another good one. Very nice quality if you ever find them. Talking SK, Wright, Proto, Snap-On kind of quality with Gray Canada. I recently discovered them. Very nice wrenches and sockets. - Paul
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pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Kmart made in Japan was good! I have a socket set of that variety from 70's or early 80's. Like Globemaster, all depends on the details.
Wards had a ton of great tools!! Like Craftsman, they would source from whoever and changed their sources many times. Some PowerMaster/Wards Master sockets were same as Indesto and very very high quality (like Craftsman V but chrome not quite as good). Some things were from New Britain and very good. Depends on the exact tool and era. - Paul
Ratchet.
Well-known member
interestingly those Stanley drivers were very common in stores over here 15 or so years ago, usually yellow handles with blue or black stripes, but sometimes black, were marketed as 'thrifty, but were made in the Uk, the blades didn't seem too bad on them, still have a few of them for using round the house maybe were different from the USA ones?
Most of the cheap **** we got (and still get) in the UK was completely unbranded, socket sets and ratchets made of cheese were common, and exceptionally poorly made wrenches, I remember snapping the open end jaw off an 11mm one once, trying to undo a brake journal that wasn't even tight, recall grabbing my snap on flare nut wrench after and it coming undone easily
Despite 90% of their tools being excellent now, stuff marked with japan but no manufacturer that was common in the 70s and 80s is usually junk too, whereas branded Japanese tools from that era are usually good,
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.
Oh man! That is the most beautiful Wizard set I've ever seen! Drool! - Paul
lbgradwell
Well-known member
Actually, Duro-Chrome was the top brand.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Really? Ok, thanks! I have some Select, some Super, and some Duro as well. - Paul
I would tend to agree that there were no "bad" brands from the late 40's to the late 60's. I just spent another enjoyable hour on alloy artifacts. I have learned that every manufacturer had a budget line, and that companies like Western Auto would mix and match to get price points. So, yes, Duro made a $2.98 wrench set for WA, but also supplied much nicer sets too.
My new relavation for today is Herbrand. I have been around their lobster claws from the teens through the thirties my whole life. Oversized, short, nicked to hell from weak steel and often broken and spread open ends.
That all changed after WW II. They copied Industro and Blackhawk. Bullet ended ratchets, cross hatched knurling on their sockets, wow!
Then in the 50's they redesigned again. Super thin pear headed ratchets, extensions that look just like my Williams of that era. Best of all, a new V slotted combination wrench that is beautiful. I never knew and I guess no one else did either. They were absorbed by triangle and went the way of Bonney and Utica.
My new relavation for today is Herbrand. I have been around their lobster claws from the teens through the thirties my whole life. Oversized, short, nicked to hell from weak steel and often broken and spread open ends.
That all changed after WW II. They copied Industro and Blackhawk. Bullet ended ratchets, cross hatched knurling on their sockets, wow!
Then in the 50's they redesigned again. Super thin pear headed ratchets, extensions that look just like my Williams of that era. Best of all, a new V slotted combination wrench that is beautiful. I never knew and I guess no one else did either. They were absorbed by triangle and went the way of Bonney and Utica.
I have some Herbrand sockets in 64th sizes. Believe them to be pre ww-1 era. Probably before the big standardization that came about because of the war.
The FIB
Well-known member
Had a Challenger socket set years ago, it was pretty darn crappy.
lbgradwell
Well-known member
Hmm. Again, I can't think of any Challenger tools that could fairly be called "crappy" and much of it is quite nice indeed!
It may not be the best of the best, but that's a long way from crappy...
junkyardjeff
Well-known member
My first tool set was made from cheap tools from the 50s and 60s,I still have them and will have to get them out and look at them again. They were great for working on bicycles which was all I had back then.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Wow.... some interesting opinions in this thread....!
In response to a couple comments above:
Actually, Indestro "Super" was the premium line. Indestro also stamped sockets "Select" as well, and some were stamped with just "Indestro".
I'm not a metallurgist, but I have many samples of all three (as well as their later-production "Duro-Indestro" and I cannot see any difference at all between the four of them. None. Zip. Nada.
(I've posted photos of them all in the "Show us your Indestro/Duro" thread.)
Where "Duro-Chrome" fit in remains a mystery to me, but from all that I've seen (which is a hell of a lot), they're exactly the same tool - just a different part number and different name stamped on them.
That "Wizard" set pictured above was made by Indestro. That socket (with the knurled band) is identical to the "Indestro Super". The #H2775 Wizard ratchet is very similar to the #2775 Indestro (round-head) ratchet, with the exception of the 5-star selector and the flat handle (which was more common on the Indestro "Select" line - generally the "Super" ratchets had round knurled handles (but not always.) (The #2875 1/4" drive round-head "Super" ratchet I picked up from another GJ member here has a flat handle, for example.)(I've seen the same thing on the breaker bars in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive.)
Challenger was Proto's "second" line. Lower priced. I can't speak to quality on it, I was too young when my father carried "Challenger" in his store. I still have a pair of 8" slip-joint pliers that work quite well, though, some 50+ years later.
I'm really puzzled by some of the comments about Thorsen. The US-made stuff was top-notch. At least all the stuff I have is. I have to wonder if maybe some of you guys ran into the later Taiwan-made Thorsen.
In response to a couple comments above:
Actually, Indestro "Super" was the premium line. Indestro also stamped sockets "Select" as well, and some were stamped with just "Indestro".
I'm not a metallurgist, but I have many samples of all three (as well as their later-production "Duro-Indestro" and I cannot see any difference at all between the four of them. None. Zip. Nada.
(I've posted photos of them all in the "Show us your Indestro/Duro" thread.)
Where "Duro-Chrome" fit in remains a mystery to me, but from all that I've seen (which is a hell of a lot), they're exactly the same tool - just a different part number and different name stamped on them.
That "Wizard" set pictured above was made by Indestro. That socket (with the knurled band) is identical to the "Indestro Super". The #H2775 Wizard ratchet is very similar to the #2775 Indestro (round-head) ratchet, with the exception of the 5-star selector and the flat handle (which was more common on the Indestro "Select" line - generally the "Super" ratchets had round knurled handles (but not always.) (The #2875 1/4" drive round-head "Super" ratchet I picked up from another GJ member here has a flat handle, for example.)(I've seen the same thing on the breaker bars in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive.)
Challenger was Proto's "second" line. Lower priced. I can't speak to quality on it, I was too young when my father carried "Challenger" in his store. I still have a pair of 8" slip-joint pliers that work quite well, though, some 50+ years later.
I'm really puzzled by some of the comments about Thorsen. The US-made stuff was top-notch. At least all the stuff I have is. I have to wonder if maybe some of you guys ran into the later Taiwan-made Thorsen.
wvhillbillie
Well-known member
Is Allenite any good?
And no one put up EASCO wrench's as cheap TOOLS jeez Uncle Sam Bought them for a while nothing like stripping a box wrench out on a 3/16" nut behind a cockpit instrument panel or when reaching deep inside a panel for a repair. Yeah they made stuff for craftsman and such but the 1/2" or smaller wrench's Uncle bought spread, bent, or stripped out on the box end.
Cypher
Cypher
Like most diyers at the time, my Dad didn't want to invest too much $ on metric sockets so that Kmart socket set is still in his garage with the made-in-Japan stamp on them. Back then nearly anything with made-in-Taiwan stamping was pretty crappy. I wish I kept the round head Taiwan ratchet that bent like a pretzel into a U-shape for a laugh.
An older woman knows how to treat a young man nice. She has money. A sense of style. No teenage BS. A great value, well worth keeping.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.
My Lord that is pretty. Are you a Museum Conservator as well?
ssdave
Banned
I have to chime in here, hard to understand where some people are coming from on their comments, must have had some very different expectations or experiences than mine.
Thorsen, I have thought was okay quality, not the best, but craftsman or better.
Wizard, I think is very good, their pliers are second to none. Their ratchets are indestro, and not cheap indestro, just the same as the real stuff, just stamped differently.
Indestro I have always really liked for quality, but not so much for design. Their wrenches are clunky and ugly usually, serviceable but not desirable. On the other hand, their sockets are very nice, and I prefer their ratchets to almost all others. I have a flex head in 1/2 and two in 3/8", and I prefer them to all the others I own. To qualify that statement, I own SK Wayne, Proto, Proto Aviation pro, Snap-on, Williams, Craftsman, and maybe a few others. I like the snap-on and proto, but prefer the Indestro to them. The only one I think I like better is the Proto aviation one, it's a real nice ratchet. But, the flex head indestro are better than any other flex I have ever used. I own snap on and proto flex heads, and never use them.
There's a lot of great old tools out there. However, the best of the high end tools produced today beat the old stuff hands down for both quality and features. Some people are willing to pay prices today that would have been unheard of in the past. Some notable exceptions in the quality and desirability comparison are old Snap-on and particularly old Bonney. They are the quality equal or better than the best today, with the exception of some design feature improvements.
Thorsen, I have thought was okay quality, not the best, but craftsman or better.
Wizard, I think is very good, their pliers are second to none. Their ratchets are indestro, and not cheap indestro, just the same as the real stuff, just stamped differently.
Indestro I have always really liked for quality, but not so much for design. Their wrenches are clunky and ugly usually, serviceable but not desirable. On the other hand, their sockets are very nice, and I prefer their ratchets to almost all others. I have a flex head in 1/2 and two in 3/8", and I prefer them to all the others I own. To qualify that statement, I own SK Wayne, Proto, Proto Aviation pro, Snap-on, Williams, Craftsman, and maybe a few others. I like the snap-on and proto, but prefer the Indestro to them. The only one I think I like better is the Proto aviation one, it's a real nice ratchet. But, the flex head indestro are better than any other flex I have ever used. I own snap on and proto flex heads, and never use them.
There's a lot of great old tools out there. However, the best of the high end tools produced today beat the old stuff hands down for both quality and features. Some people are willing to pay prices today that would have been unheard of in the past. Some notable exceptions in the quality and desirability comparison are old Snap-on and particularly old Bonney. They are the quality equal or better than the best today, with the exception of some design feature improvements.
Wakefield
Well-known member
Some of the first socket wrenches I handled as a kid came from Sears,the handle was a fairly large Allen/hex key thing,the sockets were 12 point. Below about 3/8" there were some sockets with a smaller hex drive and key/handle. For the larger sockets there was also a ratchet like thing,pass through with a hex drive that had a short plug that fit through the pass through and the sockets. There used to be a plastic pouch they fit into. I don't remember whether they had a brand name but they weren't Craftsman. Some might have been stamped "Japan" and some "USA". To reverse that ratchet thing you turned it over,pulled out the plug and put it back end from the other side.
In,say,1/2" size they were thicker and clumsier than a good name brand square drive chrome socket. Probably under the Christmas tree when I was about 5 years old.
Just checked: the hex key is 1/2"
In,say,1/2" size they were thicker and clumsier than a good name brand square drive chrome socket. Probably under the Christmas tree when I was about 5 years old.
Just checked: the hex key is 1/2"
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I remember using Thorsen in the early 80's in the Air Force. The ratchets and sockets from that era were absolute junk. I always marveled Uncle Sam would equip you with the sorriest tools they could source to maintain at the time front line jet fighters.
I've got a 22tooth penens 1/2" ratchet I made my brother give me after stealing one too many screwdrivers. took it apart, cleaned it, and lubed it up. works like a beast. gearcase is the same as any 36t proto, 2 pawls with a selector to move one out of the way depending on the setting. coating is completely toast. shards in your hand toast.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ I've got one of those... a #1661 Penens 1/2" drive. Amazingly, considering how many teeth it has, it is smooth as silk.
photo of it HERE: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5224460&highlight=vintage#post5224460
photo of it HERE: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5224460&highlight=vintage#post5224460
pendragon1998
Well-known member
My first socket set was Sears brand made in Japan. I inherited it from my Grandpapa when I was a boy, and it withstood all the abuse a teenager and young 20-something year old with no 'real' tools could throw at it. I broke loose ridiculous exhaust bolts with the 3/8 ratchet.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ The worst team in the American League can beat the best team in the American League in any given game. There are no absolutes.
I watched a young soldier pull the cylinder heads off a small-block Chev V8 out in front of our Tillicum store one weekend afternoon using a 40-piece Wilmar socket set. They were Taiwan imports then, but cheezy as hell.
Sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn.
I watched a young soldier pull the cylinder heads off a small-block Chev V8 out in front of our Tillicum store one weekend afternoon using a 40-piece Wilmar socket set. They were Taiwan imports then, but cheezy as hell.
Sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn.
Conductor562
Well-known member
Nobody has mentioned the old Task Force stuff. When I was a kid it was the bottom of the barrel.
Even as a 10 year old kid trying to tighten the chain on my bicycle, my taste for quality exceeded Task Force's ability to deliver.
Even as a 10 year old kid trying to tighten the chain on my bicycle, my taste for quality exceeded Task Force's ability to deliver.
Empty Pockets
Well-known member
I have an Indestro Select 1/2" drive socket set in the original blue steel box. This set came to me in my dad's estate. I am guessing that it's 1950's to early 60's vintage.
It was his "go to" socket set. Everything still works like new;
It was his "go to" socket set. Everything still works like new;
four.cycle
Well-known member
Empty Pockets said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say possibly earlier, as the 1959 Catalog No. 22 shows all the socket sets coming in RED boxes.
No way to ascertain with any degree of certainty exact vintage until somebody can come up with an earlier catalog.
Slonaker
Active member
I had a set of those when I was a kid in the early 70s. They were hand me downs from my dad. I think I was about 7 years old. They my very first tools that were MINE. From that point on, I always got tools for Christmas. I'm still using many of them!
Dad even did some trading with a friend and got me a small Kennedy machinist's chest. I have never seen another set like that. I think I might still have them. I know I still have the box somewhere. I used the box until I was about 20!
Slonaker
allenb12
Well-known member
WWIIjeep very accurately described by experience with tools. Still have a few Black & Decker professional tools that are as good as any brand made today. I needed a scratch all one day and purchased a Globemaster at a convenience store 35 years ago. Hoped it would make the day. I still have it and have beat it with everything. I purchased a set of Geodore India combination wrenches, in the mid 70's, to loan to guys on the crew who never had what they needed. They were severely abused on the construction site and never broke. In fact I still have all of them except for one.
larrymoencurly
Member
Any of it from Japan? I have is a pair of Japanese Fuller diagonal cutters that seem as good as Channel Locks.
Since 1993, in the back of my Ford have been:
Korean Great Neck set of wrenches
Taiwan Great neck 1/2" extension
Taiwan Great Neck torque wrench
USA Craftsman socket & ratchet set
Taiwan Ohio Forge (Home Depot brand?) socket & ratchet set.
All the Ohio Forge sockets rusted where they were stamped with their sizes, but the ratchet still looks new and identical to a round Husky ratchet, only the Husky's ratchet teeth were ground off at the tips (much quieter).
The Great Neck 1/2" extension cracked at the socket end. I finished the job with a USA made Montgomery Ward extension that was much thinner.
Here's Consumer Reports' tests of 1/4" and 3/8" ratchets from 1993. The ones in the first group all passed their tests for strength and endurance (30,000 strokes). The 3/8" True Value Hardware Master Mechanic and Great Neck ratchets failed the endurance test in 10,000 strokes, the Olympia in 20,000 strokes, and the only 1/4" drive to fail was the Kmart BenchTop, 11,000 strokes.
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redmondjp
Well-known member
I still have some (Japanese-made) Fuller linesman's pliers that I bought when I was a kid in the 1970s from the local hardware store (I had my dad drive me there - if you bought those, you got a "free" pair of same-brand needle-nose pliers for an additional one cent - I was sooo excited to get this deal). They are still in my primary toolbox, although the plasti-dipped handle covers are almost gone. The cutters don't even have any nicks in them, although the serrations on the jaws have worn down a bit.
I will confess that I actually wore the needle-nose pliers out - the joint became so loose and sloppy that I stopped using them, replacing them with Channellock brand.
anndel
Well-known member
Playskool-Fisher Price. They ain't worth beans. Maybe Mattel is a step up
four.cycle
Well-known member
How about "Handy Andy"??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HANDY-ANDY-...697857?hash=item2ee8d3ea81:g:W3UAAOSwPhdU7hNv
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HANDY-ANDY-...697857?hash=item2ee8d3ea81:g:W3UAAOSwPhdU7hNv