Old Walden Worcester

[Oldtuleguy]

Patd 1925 pats pend I think

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Just earlier version.

Your tools are early to mid 20's, so it's possible, and would surely explain some of the differences between yours, mine, and the 1928 catalog.

There are a few issues with that theory, though. Walden-Worcester consistently advertised their sets only in wooden or vulcanized fiber boxes until the merger with Stevens. They first advertised steel boxes in 1927, as Stevens-Walden. The 1928 Catalog and the 1928 Salesman's booklet, c/o 4.c (c/o anonymous and unwary eBay seller ), shows the built-in socket and small parts tray going wide to narrow left to right and the hasp clearly pinned on the top of the lid. And the BX- boxes (and model numbering scheme) are identified as Stevens products. Which would mean they couldn't be older than 1927, after the merger.

I already posted cat excerpts, but here's a Salesman's booklet excerpt just for a different view...



Note that the bigger box (BX-30) has two clasps like your center clasp.

The only document I have ever seen anything close to your box (socket tray going the other way, deep lid with center clasp) is this ad, which 4.c recorded as being excerpted from a 1945 Motor Service magazine.



Obviously it exists and I am not losing sleep over this. It's not a pressing concern or priority. I'm just saying we'd need more examples and more documentation to fill in the blanks. Hopefully they will eventually emerge.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That sure looks like it in that ad

 

[Steven 33]

^ Your box is not the same as mine. Not just the clasp, but the reinforced lid, and the socket tray. Look at my photos, look at the catalogs, then look at your box. I don't know if that means we have two different model numbers or different generations of the BX-20. Something to figure out at some point.

I have a small pile of stuff that may go with it. Here's a few things I had handy

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's a ford set

 

[MR.X]

Ok Walden fans here is some more cool stuff. Never shown in a catalog, apparently in the late 20s they made an entire oval drive set. Look close to what I’m describing as the first thumb ratchet

11/16 7322. oval drive socketwith set screw hole.

 

[Mark Stansbury]

Just found this while researching catalog dates. In 1929 Stevens Walden-Worcester had a tool truck built that they called a missionary van. When parked, a switch raised the roof and expanded the sides to display the entire product line to their wholesale customers. The ad and articles explain fully.

 

[Ducky]

Nice work Mark. Cool example of an early tool truck concept.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I was out at an antique store today & saw a Walden no. 12 pressed steel socket set. I took a pic so I could do some research. I have a lot of early socket sets, but I don't have a Walden set. The set I saw today appears to be complete. The no. 12 had 27 hex sockets, 11 square sockets & the spark plug socket for a total of 39 sockets. This set has all 39. It also has the 5 wrenches & all the extensions and other pieces. I've never seen one so complete in the original wooden box...with the original lid!! I called them back & negotiated a better price. I payed less than $100. Below is the pic I took while I was there. I'll go pic it up tomorrow. I haven't been through this whole thread, but is the Walden no. 12 set difficult to find?

 

[FrankLee]

I've got this 1/4" drive WW 3117 if someone needs it to complete a set. It's in good shape.

​

I'll let it go for basically the cost of postage... $6 shipped.

I'm still wanting to give this away.
PENDING

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here is a pic of the Walden no. 12 set from a 1918 catalog.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I was out at an antique store today & saw a Walden no. 12 pressed steel socket set. I took a pic so I could do some research. I have a lot of early socket sets, but I don't have a Walden set. The set I saw today appears to be complete. The no. 12 had 27 hex sockets, 11 square sockets & the spark plug socket for a total of 39 sockets. This set has all 39. It also has the 5 wrenches & all the extensions and other pieces. I've never seen one so complete in the original wooden box...with the original lid!! I called them back & negotiated a better price. I payed less than $100. Below is the pic I took while I was there. I'll go pic it up tomorrow. I haven't been through this whole thread, but is the Walden no. 12 set difficult to find?

Looks pretty good nice find!

 

[AntiqueBen]

Looks pretty good nice find!

Thanks. I got lucky. Now I'm curious if the top of the lid might have any markings. It would be nice...but I doubt it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was out at an antique store today & saw a Walden no. 12 pressed steel socket set.

Nice find.

I haven't been through this whole thread, but is the Walden no. 12 set difficult to find?

These kinds of questions are almost impossible to answer, Ben. They're not common, but they're not unicorns, either. There's one on AA and there's one posted upthread somewhere. That one is older than yours as I recall, with the loop handle ratchet.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

None of it is common it's really old!

 

[AntiqueBen]

I guess I didn't realize Walden made a large set like the no. 12. I know Mossberg & a few others made larger socket sets with wrenches, but I hadn't seen a Walden box that big. I think the box is like 18"X14" or something like that.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I picked up the Walden set this afternoon. I'm almost as amazed by the box as I am the tools. I'm so glad the original lid is here. It even has the original hooks on each end to keep the lid on. Also, on the outside of the lid, you can still see No. 12 Set with a round circle where the Walden logo used to be. The ratchet works great & all the sockets are present with all the other pieces. Even all the wooden socket pegs are here! Below are more pics.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I guess I didn't realize Walden made a large set like the no. 12.

It was their largest set in the pressed-steel era. When they progressed to the bulky machined sockets they changed their numbering system to match the number of sockets. I have a No. 8 and a No. 16 set in their original wooden boxes, for example, and they have eight (8) and twelve (12) sockets, respectively. The largest set in that era was a No. 27. (There was a No. 26 as well.)

I picked up the Walden set this afternoon.

It presents fantastically well!

Also, on the outside of the lid, you can still see No. 12 Set with a round circle where the Walden logo used to be.

That circle is just begging to be filled! The question is, with what?

The smaller sets in the fiberboard cases had a paper label on the inside of the lid and a lightly embossed branding and set number on the top of the lid. Marketing in the machined era indicates that the set number and logo were wood-burned on the lid, but mine are a little later, with brass tags there. It's too bad @coolford did not post a photo of the top of his early No. 12 set lid. He hasn't been here since 2021. AA's lid is missing.

I'm wondering if it was embossed to match the "No. 12" and "Set" markings and has just faded. Did you try lightly cleaning that area with Murphy's or something like that? I know it sounds outlandish, but if we could verify the method, I would see if I could hire a sign shop ti burn it in. You're already in for $100, might as well go all in.



Or you could just print out a high quality one sized to fit and paste it in there.

 

[AntiqueBen]

It was their largest set in the pressed-steel era. When they progressed to the bulky machined sockets they changed their numbering system to match the number of sockets. I have a No. 8 and a No. 16 set in their original wooden boxes, for example, and they have eight (8) and twelve (12) sockets, respectively. The largest set in that era was a No. 27. (There was a No. 26 as well.)

It presents fantastically well!

That circle is just begging to be filled! The question is, with what?

The smaller sets in the fiberboard cases had a paper label on the inside of the lid and a lightly embossed branding and set number on the top of the lid. Marketing in the machined era indicates that the set number and logo were wood-burned on the lid, but mine are a little later, with brass tags there. It's too bad @coolford did not post a photo of the top of his early No. 12 set lid. He hasn't been here since 2021. AA's lid is missing. I'm wondering if it was wood-burned to match the "No. 12" and "Set" markings and has just faded. There is some indication that it might have been. Did you try lightly cleaning that area with Murphy's or something like that? I know it sounds outlandish, but if we could verify the method, I would see if I could hire a sign shop to burn it in. You're already in for $100, might as well go all in.

We must be birds of the same feather Lugz. The empty circle has bugged me since I've brought it home. I was researching this just a few minutes ago to make sense of what would have been there. The pic you posted above is the same logo that was on the original label that was on the inside of the lid based on the 1918 catalog pic of the set. My guess would be the logo on the outside probably matched the logo on the inner label. I posted a closer pic below of the circle. It doesn't have any evidence of anything burnt in the wood inside the circle. I'm also tempted to make a proper copy of the inside label to put on the inside of the lid. Why not at this point. I could play around with printing the right size logo on paper to fit the circle.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ I wonder if you could have a letter press like stamp made with a CNC machine. There's gotta be a way to do it. Blot the stamp in a black ink pad and hammer it. Test it on a similar piece of wood first.

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ I wonder if you could have a letter press like stamp made with a CNC machine. There's gotta be a way to do it. Blot the stamp in a black ink pad and hammer it. Test it on a similar piece of wood first.

I'll definitely do something. I want to make it look as original as possible. I found one wrench inside that doesn't belong to the set & it bares the name Nash (pic below). I suppose for Nash cars? The Nash came out in 1917, so it kinda goes along with the time frame of the socket set. It's cool to think of what vehicles this set was possibly used on for repairs.

 

[AntiqueBen]

It presents fantastically well!

I'm extremely tempted to give it a light coat of Linseed Oil...or should I just leave the original grunge look? We know what the Linseed Oil will do...

 

[ararat]

I'm extremely tempted to give it a light coat of Linseed Oil...or should I just leave the original grunge look? We know what the Linseed Oil will do...

Personally, I would give it the light coat of BLO.

 

[AntiqueBen]

There was one more larger wrench under the Nash wrench on the bottom of the wrench compartment. It's an 8" Buhl wrench (pic below), which again fits right in with the time frame of the No. 12 Walden socket set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm extremely tempted to give it a light coat of Linseed Oil...or should I just leave the original grunge look?

If you're referring to the wooden box, I would not hesitate to treat it. I rub all my boxes down to clean, preserve, refresh the grain and make them shine again. My preference is Murphy's, but I've also used and like Orange Glo, believe it or not.

 

[RTM]

I know it sounds outlandish, but if we could verify the method, I would see if I could hire a sign shop ti burn it in.

Or go over to the wood fabrication section of the forum, see who has a laser engraved, and con them into doing it. I suspect the existing dark color might put most of them off tho.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I found another guy online that has the original lid to his no. 12 Walden set (pics below). His lid has no evidence of anything ever being marked on the top of his lid. Nothing burnt in. No circle where a logo once was or anything. So I guess, some they marked & some they didn't? Or maybe this is a clue to a earlier made set to a later one? Not sure yet. Another difference is my box has 4 wooden rails on the bottom of the box, just like the ones on the inside of the lid (pic below). I haven't seen this on any other boxes yet.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No circle where a logo once was or anything. So I guess, some they marked & some they didn't? Or maybe this is a clue to a earlier made set to a later one? Not sure yet.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about trying to date or even sequence it inside the Pressed-Steel era based on the box. With the 1918 Bellows ratchet, it's near the end and moving into the Machined era. My take-away from that box not having anything on the lid would be confident carte blanche to emboss the logo in that circle to match the way the "No. 12" and "Set" are applied, which has plenty of evidence in period marketing. Just my $.02.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about trying to date or even sequence it inside the Pressed-Steel era based on the box.

Oh...I'm not going down that rabbit hole. I was just pointing out some differences. The steel socket era only lasted around 15 yrs anyways. I'm working on the logo for the circle. I already have the inner label ready for print.

 

[Leviton]

Ford brake and reverse band adjustment wrenches are littered all over this forum, from Mossberg, Bog, Hinsdale, even Packer Auto ("Ray"), and of course Walden. But I think this is the first Walden 4564 I have seen with the warning on the flip side about not using it as a ratchet for anything else.

@Private Lugnutz posted photos of a 4564. I found a 4564-2. After some searching, I found that the 4564-2 was manufactured before his 4564. It didn’t seem to make sense that the -2 option was earlier. Got me sucked into figuring out why...

It turns out that, before Lugz’ wrench or mine, Walden started out making a different “4564”. There were two versions of that early wrench and they both had the 4564 model number, but neither had a ratcheting capability.

Then, Walden-Worcester added a ratcheting box on one end, and called that new wrench the 4564-2. That is the wrench I just found.

However, for some reason, after about a year of making the 4564-2, they dropped the -2 moniker and went back to just 4564.

The very earliest version of this wrench was a single-ended laminated-construction wrench with an 11/16” hex box opening.

The next version added an unexplained (to me) opening on the other end. I don’t have one of these, but I have looked at multiple online photos and that additional end does not look hex shaped. I’ve not been able to find a description of the purpose of the second end.

The third version had a fixed 11/16” hex opening and a 15/16” ratchet box opening. When this first came out, it was the 4564-2. Then later it was just called the 4546. I can’t see any significant difference between the ratcheting versions of the 4564-2 and the 4564.
The 15/16” ratcheting end was used on the slow speed connecting lock nut and also on Champion X Spark Plugs.

As mentioned by Lugz, many companies made wrenches like this for the Ford transmission bands. It’s crazy to think there was a time when regular work on your transmission was so common that these wrenches were being marketed by everyone.

For dating these, here are the years I found the different versions documented in online literature:

1914 (May) early style with no ratchet – single end – (construction based on patent 920717)
1915 (Sept) early style with no ratchet – single end
1915 (Nov.) early style with no ratchet – double ended
1916 early style with no ratchet – double ended
1917 early style with no ratchet – double ended
1918 early style with no ratchet – double ended
1918 (May) new style with ratchet end -2 marking
1919 new style with ratchet end -2 marking
1920 new style with ratchet end - no dash
1920 new style with ratchet end - no dash
1922 new style with ratchet end - no dash
1924 new style with ratchet end - no dash

I could not find any mentions of the 4564 wrench before 1914.
I could not find any mentions of the 4564 wrench after 1925, EXCEPT, one mention in the 1932 Stevens-Walden reissue catalog of an R-4564 “Brake and Reverse Trans. Ratchet 11/16 Hex”.




My -2 has an interesting spelling in the stamping. It says:
“RATCHET GUARANTEER FOR USE ON FORD BRAKE AND REVERSE BANDS ONLY”.



One of the thumbnail attachments below shows multiple views of the second end that they added to the early version in late 1915. Anyone know what this non hex opening would be used for?

(I have a more documentation that I did not post if anyone ever needs it.)

 

[d42jeep]

I took this picture in 2023 when visiting the shop of my buddy who has several Model Ts of various configurations.



A snowmobile and a tow truck.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

(I have a more documentation that I did not post if anyone ever needs it.)

I bet you do!

Seriously, that is one helluva an excellent post. Well-researched, -organized, and -presented. And I appreciate the attribution and sense of continuity.

The next version added an unexplained (to me) opening on the other end. I don’t have one of these, but I have looked at multiple online photos and that additional end does not look hex shaped. I’ve not been able to find a description of the purpose of the second end.

Anyone know what this non hex opening would be used for?

Oval Drive tool? (Kidding..., I know you have some.) No idea.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is the answer I got from my Model T expert.
-Don
”It is a transmission low band adjuster . The hex end is for the locknut , the other end turns the adjustment bolt that tightens the band . It comes out of the “hogs head “ on the passenger side.”

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here is the answer I got from my Model T expert.

Did you show him a photo of wrench C and D (i.e., commonly found and seen and described in most trade mags and catalogs)? Or wrench B (with the funky oval end), Don? If B, I'd be curious to see what that "adjustment bolt" looks like.

 

[d42jeep]

I sent him this screenshot.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. If you get a chance and it's not too much of an imposition on your pal, I'd love to see a photo of the piece the oval end fits. And also what mechanics used to turn that piece when they only had the A, C, and D versions - which don't have the oval end.

 

[d42jeep]

I doubt that he has a transmission apart. I grabbed a couple of screenshots from a YouTube video. The person doing the video used a common adjustable (Crescent) wrench to turn the band adjuster.
-Don

 

[Leviton]

Here is the answer I got from my Model T expert.
-Don
”It is a transmission low band adjuster . The hex end is for the locknut , the other end turns the adjustment bolt that tightens the band . It comes out of the “hogs head “ on the passenger side.”

Thank you very much for finding the answer, and thanks also for the screen shot of adjustment bolt it goes on!
Really appreciate it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I grabbed a couple of screenshots

Thanks. So that's the oval area machined into the end of that bolt just waiting for @Leviton 's example of the special version of the transmission band wrench? Pretty cool. That's a big bolt. EDIT: There are numerous Ford manuals, spanning a decade or more, on Google Books. They don't illustrate this.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I take that back. Kind of. This photo is showing a different adjustment (with an "S" wrench!) but you can see the low band peeking out of the case and the text describes exactly what Don's friend described.

I guess Walden figured everyone was using something else to turn it, it never caught on like they thought it might, and dropped the oval from the other end and replaced it with another hex for other things.