Old wire?

[spudley]

I inherited several hundred feet of gray sheathed 14-3 nmb. I'm guessing this is an older rendition sheathing as this was from a retired electrician's estate. Don't see any temp rating printed on the jacket.

Is this still legal?

 

[Norcal]

If NM-B, yes, marked as NM, it's scrap as it is required to be rated for 90°C, and plain NM, is 60°C.

 

[PCustoms]

Is it really worth it to save like $65?

 

[Lassen Forge]

I've used old 14-3 for low amperage circuit runs, we had probably a roll or 2 worth left behind when we got the place, and it's fine for what it's for, tho I wouldn't use it for more than maybe lighting...

 

[spudley]

Is it really worth it to save like $65?

Probably less than that, but it's what I have so if it's not a code violation, I'll use it up.
You know, there's a lot of hungry electricians in Africa...

 

[spudley]

I've used old 14-3 for low amperage circuit runs, we had probably a roll or 2 worth left behind when we got the place, and it's fine for what it's for, tho I wouldn't use it for more than maybe lighting...

Yep, just lights, and LED's at that. Probably could get by with doorbell wire.

All the outlets are brand spanking new 12-2 wire.

 

[Norcal]

I've used old 14-3 for low amperage circuit runs, we had probably a roll or 2 worth left behind when we got the place, and it's fine for what it's for, tho I wouldn't use it for more than maybe lighting...

The NEC has required 90°C conductors since around the mid 1980's*, a NOS roll of NM cable is not code compliant to use ever.


*The 1981 NEC required 60°C and the 1984 NEC required 90°C conductors in non metallic sheathed cable.

 

[sberry]

Nm not legal to hook most new light fixtures to.

 

[tyme2par4]

Yep, just lights, and LED's at that. Probably could get by with doorbell wire.

All the outlets are brand spanking new 12-2 wire.

Light fixtures are the exact reason NM-b was created. With a standard 2 bulb light fixture, the temperature in the junction box can get very high and damage the insulation on the 60 degree insulation.
My house was built in the 70's and is a testament to this. The light fixture in my foyer at some point burned, and the sheet rock still shows the damage (although covered by a new fixture).

 

[510ebl]

Sort of on topic, when did they start to color code NM-B wire? If I have old stock in white, is it appropriate to use in new, inspected work? I talking about 10-2, 12-2, and 14-2.

 

[sberry]

They get together and change it so it can be recognized, what era etc. They got quite a system. I don't think it's code, not sure but there is a plan.

 

[Norcal]

Sort of on topic, when did they start to color code NM-B wire? If I have old stock in white, is it appropriate to use in new, inspected work? I talking about 10-2, 12-2, and 14-2.

About 2012 or so give or take, as long as it is marked "NM-B" your good to go.

 

[cybrdyke]

Sort of on topic, when did they start to color code NM-B wire? If I have old stock in white, is it appropriate to use in new, inspected work? I talking about 10-2, 12-2, and 14-2.

Early 2000's.
Passing inspection is a cat and mouse game between the electrician and the AHJ. Colored romex helped inspectors crack down on electricians who would install 14/2 with the printed side where it cant be seen. It also helped electricians quickly identify what they had laying around, or in the truck. So, there's benefits all around.
CD

 

[Terry D]

Sort of on topic, when did they start to color code NM-B wire? If I have old stock in white, is it appropriate to use in new, inspected work? I talking about 10-2, 12-2, and 14-2.

Late 1990's or early 2000's

 

[sberry]

It's been around a while, several variations on it, changed the color of the jacket, the color of the writing.
Can recall 12 in black, remember 10 black, seem 8 too but not familiar with all the years and changes. Think it was nm then, it's been around before the b

 

[Terry D]

I inherited several hundred feet of gray sheathed 14-3 nmb. I'm guessing this is an older rendition sheathing as this was from a retired electrician's estate. Don't see any temp rating printed on the jacket.

Is this still legal?

Unless this stuff is ancient, gray is a UF cable color

 

[rlitman]

Unless this stuff is ancient, gray is a UF cable color

NOW it is. But plenty of NM was made in gray as well, and from the sounds of it, it IS ancient.

OP, is there any brown paper under the sheathing? NM will have paper inside, whereas UF will not have anything that can hold water (and will also be clearly marked as UF or NM-C).

 

[spudley]

NOW it is. But plenty of NM was made in gray as well, and from the sounds of it, it IS ancient.

OP, is there any brown paper under the sheathing? NM will have paper inside, whereas UF will not have anything that can hold water (and will also be clearly marked as UF or NM-C).

The color of the jacket is where I went off track.

I also have a roll of gray 14/2 UF-B so that's why I wasn't sure if the 14/3 was UF or just ancient. Upon further inspection, the 14/3 I have is indeed NM-B (made by CAPEX Wire) so I should be good to go.

And yes, the 14/3 has brown paper inside the jacket indicating indoor use, whereas the 14/2 UF-B roll has no paper and each wire is encased individually by the gray jacket.
Thanks gentlemen for your professional responses.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sort of on topic, when did they start to color code NM-B wire? If I have old stock in white, is it appropriate to use in new, inspected work? I am talking about 10-2, 12-2, and 14-2.

There is no NEC code mandating that different NM-b gauges need to be certain colors, so the answer is yes, its ok to use.

It's been around a while, several variations on it, changed the color of the jacket, the color of the writing.
Can recall 12 in black, remember 10 black, seem 8 too but not familiar with all the years and changes. Think it was nm then, it's been around before the b

yeah Ive seen #12 in black as well. It threw me off when i saw it.

#8, #6 and #4 still come in black...

Unless this stuff is ancient, gray is a UF cable color

Nope. There are several manufacturers of NM-b that use colors other than white or yellow. Ive seen black and gray and theyre all '-b'

 

[Norcal]

Seen old Phelps-Dodge NM cable with a green jacket,it was circa 1968 with the 16 ga grounding conductor.

The jacket/sheathing color is a marketing thing not a code or UL mandate but I swear it was done for the crews pulling wire for trailer (mobile home) builders because if the same crews were laying sod, the foreman would be yelling “green side up green side up”.

 

[rlitman]

...The jacket/sheathing color is a marketing thing not a code or UL mandate but I swear it was done for the crews pulling wire for trailer (mobile home) builders because if the same crews were laying sod, the foreman would be yelling “green side up green side up”.

Exactly. It's also most likely appreciated by inspectors for making their jobs a little easier. But it most certainly is not code mandated. Just like red and blue PEX.

 

[sberry]

I disconnected a daisy chain and left a piece of nm as a fridge recept. After I did it would have changed it so I could say all new. I know a lot might think me a cobbler but I am not and a service upgrade junkie. If I get a chance to replace some old stuff I do. I got no problem replacing old wire when I can.

 

[Terry D]

There is no NEC code mandating that different NM-b gauges need to be certain colors, so the answer is yes, its ok to use.



yeah Ive seen #12 in black as well. It threw me off when i saw it.

#8, #6 and #4 still come in black...



Nope. There are several manufacturers of NM-b that use colors other than white or yellow. Ive seen black and gray and theyre all '-b'

Thats interesting to know what materials are available around the US. Only new black NM b we have around here is the bigger stuff. 8, 6, etc. Everything else is white , yellow , orange and gray for UF

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[sberry]

Current colors are white, orange, yellow, forget or havnt bought a bigger wire in some time, seems 8 white and black 6???

 

[wyliesdiesels]

White / yellow / orange / black

#14 / #12 / #10 / #8-#2

 

[rlitman]

White / yellow / orange / black

#14 / #12 / #10 / #8-#2

Those are the color codes used by Romex brand. I can't speak for other brands, since Romex has the market cornered around here in the big stores, and I don't buy NM at the supply houses.

 

[bwringer]

My Mom's extremely rural house was built in the late '90s by a hillbilly with a pallet of salvaged two-conductor romex. Also lots of random wire in various fixtures salvaged from old pickups and such.

That's right. Black, white, and no ground wire. Miles of the stuff. 4,000 SF and not a ground wire in the place. She asked me to install a ceiling fan, and it took me a good long while to figure out WTF was happening. All the outlets were modern three prong, but with no ground hooked up.

Needless to say, that house was jam packed with all sorts of "creativity".

 

[sberry]

Gfci.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My Mom's extremely rural house was built in the late '90s by a hillbilly with a pallet of salvaged two-conductor romex. Also lots of random wire in various fixtures salvaged from old pickups and such.

That's right. Black, white, and no ground wire. Miles of the stuff. 4,000 SF and not a ground wire in the place. She asked me to install a ceiling fan, and it took me a good long while to figure out WTF was happening. All the outlets were modern three prong, but with no ground hooked up.

Needless to say, that house was jam packed with all sorts of "creativity".

someone screwed up. shoudlve put 2-wire outlets in

what a hack.

for the fan you should run a separate ground wire

 

[tyme2par4]

Those are the color codes used by Romex brand. I can't speak for other brands, since Romex has the market cornered around here in the big stores, and I don't buy NM at the supply houses.

I believe the industry has standardized on those colors.
Energex, Cerro and Encore also use the same colors.