older 4 post lift safety suggestions

[hamzalam786]

A couple of summers ago I got this used 4 post lift for my home garage. Aside from the lift pump, there is no indication of company or max load. I like to say that its amish made. Its a chain driven 12 footer with an adjustable width. It was a rusty white before I sprayed it blue and green. Not bolted down. The jack cylinder has one safety lock to rest on when lift is up. The platforms that hold the car up are made out of wood decking and rest on the edges and a couple beams that go across. I will attach some pictures.

I mainly use the lift for storage, however, I want to start to do more mechanical work on it. For example, I want to put the front on jack stands and the rear on ramps (bc rear jack pad rust and to make the car level). I am thinking of ways I can make my lift more safe. In ascending order #3 being the most important, here are some things I am strongly considering.

1. Weld more safety lock tabs on the top beam to catch hydraulic failure

2. Get 4x4 fence posts and fit them in the c channel groove in each of the posts to catch chain failure

3. Get some 1/8 inch thick angle iron under the outer wooden platform (where the bulk of the tire weight goes) and in between the two pieces of wood to help distribute the load.

Any suggestions or insight is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[racecougar]

ALI would run from this one. Can you post a photo of the carriage-to-post area? Is there any opportunity to add a more conventional lock ladder arrangement at the posts? As you've noted, whether or not the cylinder has reached its lock, if a chain fails, you're screwed.

For the effort involved, it may be worth considering selling this off and buying a lift that better suits your needs (and is safer).

 

[hamzalam786]

I am a big fan of this lift mainly due to its small size and seemingly quality construction. I like the idea of some lock ladder system to go in each post like the newer cable driven 4 posts, but it maybe difficult to implement. My fence post idea would be simple, but won't work when operating the lift (maybe i should cross my fingers and stand clear when operating). Not sure what carriage-to-post area is but I have attached some more pics. Going back to spreading the load on the platform, there are holes on the front and back part of the platform that makes it seem like there may have once been some metal going across as a reinforcement. However, maybe it is just to screw the wooden planks down. Thanks.

 

[P0234]

If you don't have the money for something else and have to use it, the fence posts seem like the best idea. If I'm looking at that right, everything is hanging on the chains? Yikes.

 

[racecougar]

Lock ladders or not, you should not be under a lift when raising/lowering. Yes, the fence post idea will afford some measure of safety/backup should a chain fail while the lift is all the way up.

Without having the posts bolted to the floor, is the only thing preventing the two sides from spreading apart the chain tension? I see the link bar on one side and the ram arrangement on the other that connect the front/back posts on each side, but I don't see anything between the two sides.

The holes in the welded angles appear to be for deck boards.

I wouldn't be comfortable working beneath this lift, as the risk isn't worth it, IMO.

 

[hamzalam786]

Yes everything basically hangs on the chains and its tension is holding everything together.

On the posts with the hydraulic, there is a chain attached to the ram and lifts up the front and back corners on that side.

On the posts with the link bar, there is a chain that runs from the top of each post, through the platform beams, and is attached to the bottom of hydraulic side posts on either end. Somehow the jack only has to lift one side and the other side comes up evenly due to pulleys and chain tension.

If that makes sense. I think the chain driven 4 posts have a similar design.

 

[P0234]

The chains themselves to lift are fine, probably more durable than cable, however the fact there is no safety when the chain breaks is an incredible problem.

A modern four post lifts and you hear it clicking through the locks, if a cable fails, it drops down to the lock with only a underwear change required.

When your chain breaks, its going to get wild. Especially given the fact that only one side of the chains are connected to the ram. The whole design in the computer world is what you'd call a "sunny day scenario."

 

[DG930]

"there is no indication of company or max load"

 

[hamzalam786]

Now I am thinking about retractable seatbelts on each corner post as an added safety measure when lifting and lowering. They are strong and lockup when pulled quickly.

 

[mikedodge]

Maybe I am too young to get that cartoon reference.

Now I am thinking about retractable seatbelts on each corner post as an added safety measure when lifting and lowering. They are strong and lockup when pulled quickly.

I wouldn't trust retractable seat belts any more in an emergency then whats already there.
Even if it was blocked in the up position its not worth the risk of what might happen if it brakes going up or down.

 

[hamzalam786]

I wouldn't trust retractable seat belts any more in an emergency then whats already there.
Even if it was blocked in the up position its not worth the risk of what might happen if it brakes going up or down.

What you are saying is that if the emergency locking retractor gets accidently locked up when moving the lift up or down it may be more damaging/annoying? Or it will break under a heavy load pulling it down

I wouldn't be trusting it more but I would look at it as another layer of security for a potential lift failure.

 

[DG930]

Maybe I am too young to get that cartoon reference.

Now I am thinking about retractable seatbelts on each corner post as an added safety measure when lifting and lowering. They are strong and lockup when pulled quickly.

This cartoon is from a comic strip called The Far Side by a very funny guy by the name of Gary Larson. He specialized in sardonic humor.

I put it in my post as a means to jokingly convey that when you crush yourself to death with your no name, unrated, fence post, seat belt, duct tape, eye squint lift, I would like to have your BMW.

I hope you are just trolling and joking about your ideas and using this lift.

 

[ratflinger]

I'd trust this lift about as much as a woman should trust a guy that says "Don't worry, I've had a vasectomy".

And I've never seen wood break either.

 

[gizardlizard]

This is the kind of lift and scenario you see on YouTube from 3rd world countries. You seriously feel safe under this thing? Cut it up for scrap and apply the money towards an ALI approved lift. The piece of mind will be priceless. You need to ask yourself: is the risk really worth the reward? In this case, absolutely not.

 

[dante2]

Got to be at least as safe as this gentleman.

 

[hamzalam786]

I don't see myself getting another lift. I think that its better constructed than a cheap cable driven 4 post, but I also understand it is sketch with the lack of a fail-safe. Maybe it was ALI approved at one time, but doesn't matter since I cant figure out manufacturer. The lift pump says John S Barnes in IL and Zeeman Corp in CA both hydraulic pump/parts manufacturers.

The past couple years I've been using the lift to move around cars in storage and for light stuff like exhaust work, oil changes, etc, and I have slept soundly. But now, maybe I am overthinking, I realize that the lift just operating as it should does not matter when talking about failure which can come at any time. Storage is my main use for the lift. For mechanical work, I can stick with jack stands and my driveway.

A 4x4 in each column will be able to carry an axial load of 2+ tons from the platform if a chain breaks while the lift is up. When operating the lift up and down, as shady as it may sound, a retracting seatbelt on each post will also be able to hold 2+ tons of sudden impact force if something breaks.

I am looking for ways to minimize risk with my current setup.

 

[racecougar]

A seatbelt can hold 1.5+ tons of force. That isn't "sudden impact force", that's just force. The shock loading that you would see at each corner with a car on the lift stands to be greater than that depending on the drop that occurs before the seatbelt attempts to lock up.

I had assumed this lift WAS in a "third world" country, and was treating this thread with kid gloves as such. Is this actually in the USA?

When this lift fails, the best case scenario is that it drops your car on its side. Hopefully nobody is injured or killed. I'll state again, I would not use it. The risk isn't worth it.

 

[ratflinger]

I don't think the OP gives a hoot in Hell about what we think, he's going to use it anyway. So the question becomes 'Why did he even bother to ask?'

 

[P0234]

I'm more curious about who built it. It looks like they had enough skills to be able to make money to buy a proper lift. Or this is really the grand daddy of the modern 4 post.

 

[hamzalam786]

Yes the lift is located in the us. I do care about what others think along with ideas I haven't thought of which is why I posted. Comparing it to the triumph I built for my uncle and this bendpak I have experience with, this 4 post feels to be better constructed using high quality steel. I am sure there were many of these lifts made. I know the risk of the unknown isn't worth it, which is why I was thinking of ideas for some safety locking system in case stuff hits the fan. Seems like the consensus is to wait for another 4 post lift I can afford, probably a used newer style china cable driven for around 1.5-2k. But seems like for less effort I can implement some ladder lock system or another safety measure

 

[LouDogg65]

It's only sketchy if you think it's sketchy: I joined this site today because I'm trying to build a hoist to attach to the rear of my Shuttle Bus conversion to make lifting cargo containers to the bus' rooftop storage rack fun and easy. However, my intention to use a 20 year old 12v HF winch seems a poor and sketchy path. But... but now, now I feel like I've found my kindred spirit, and danger be damned- I'm going to add a recliner to my Winch Hoist and kick back in my Barcolounger 30' in midair after finishing loading the rooftop cargo storage rack. I suggest you do similar with your 4 point lift. Cool is cool and fear is fine but Cool Fear is The Way (or something)

 

[lynnbilodeau]

I don't understand the harshness. The 4x4 posts will accomplish what the OP wants.
If I understand correctly, the idea is to raise the vehicle, place posts at each corner and then lower the vehicle down enough that friction holds the posts in place. Not only would the posts support the whole thing in the event of a chain break, you just took most of the tension off the chains, so there is virtually NO chance of a chain break while resting on the posts.

What I don't see is something to keep it from racking. Am I missing something? If there isn't something to keep it from racking, then i would suggest bolting it down before doing any serious mechanical work.

 

[barnym17]

Why not 4 under car jackstands pretty cheap at harbor freight.Doesn't solve if it breaks going up or down but would make a lot safer to work under.

 

[hamzalam786]

not sure what you mean by racking. rocking? There is one spot for the ram to rack but the platform has nothing to rack on which is my issue with this lift. Making it safe while up in the air seems to be an easier task with the use of under car stands or 4x4s. But I would think that there is a greater chance of the chain breaking when lifting up or down as each individual link is tested to a different degree. Maybe at a minimum have some sort of lock or extra jack on the post where I stand so it doesn’t crash down on me while I operate. Another thing I thought of is a ceiling mounted winch

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Hope you make it to 10 postings. Good luck!

 

[kbuhagiar]

Cracks me up to see so many folks here getting their knickers in a twist.

If this was a one-off homebuilt project, I'd agree that it should be scrapped immediately.
But if it was a commercially manufactured and marketed lift, that's another story; my greatest concern would be how worn the components are, and how they may fail. But lack of documentation alone would keep me from using it.

OP has shown he seems to be aware of the risks; his biggest problem is thinking that this unit is worth all of the time, money, and effort required to provide the level of safety he desires.

OTOH I think he may have already spent too much time on it...but OTOH I admire his persistence.

 

[hamzalam786]

I attached some more pics of lift components. It does have 9-92 written on it which maybe was when it was inspected or first installed. Only one of the columns has NYS USA which I believe is a steel manufacturer. The width is adjustable which is why I have extra chain.

 

[Aahz]

I've been selling lifts for 30 years and thought I had seen most of them that were out there..This one is definitely new to me!
Even when chain driven hoists were the popular "cheap" option, there were safety features involved. Typically there was a locking feature on the cylinder that would grab on the beam that the cylinder was mounted on. Another method was to have a steel bar on each column with a heavy washer that slid up and down. If a chain broke, theoretically the washer would not ride smoothly and grab the steel bar, locking the lift into place.
Safety features have been required on all commercial lifts since 1972, to the best of my knowledge. This was likely a home built lift or made by a company that didn't last very long.