Older radial arm saw on the cheap

[Aaroncl]

Hello GJ!

Recently picked this up at a flea market for $20! Works good, just needs a new blade. I've never used on of these before so a couple of questions...

1. I have a compound miter saw and I was shopping around for a nice table saw. Does this make a good replacement for either?

2. Ive heard of this kind if saw being unsafe. Any thoughts?

3. If I sell it, I would like to keep the stand and fit a drill press on it. What do you think I could get out of the saw?


Thanks!
Aaron

 

[34 Ply]

Your miter box is not a radial saw. Your radial saw is not a miter box. I was a builder for 40 years. I had several radial saws. They are very safe saw, if you take the time to learn the right way to run them. We had a Craftsman 12", 220 volt saw on one job. (The old ones are the best). No one would run it but me, what a saw. I've been hurt with a bench saw, cut finger and been hit by stuff kicking out, never on a radial saw. To be honest most people are afraid to run them, so they call unsafe. Learn the saw and have fun.

 

[jnkpile]

I think you bought yourself a nice stand (;
My personal opinion is they don't do anything very well. I have my grandfathers 10" craftsman up at the cottage and it works but you're constantly chasing a square cut. Just picked up a table saw for the cottage, now looking for a 12" miter saw, then we'll retire that old weapon for good.

 

[jakemac]

Some older models of RAS's were built to be multi-use. They could cross-cut, rip-cut, compound-cut, dado, and be used as a moulding head. But, as with all multi-use tools, they don't do any of it well.

If you need a table saw more than twice, then buy a table saw. Don't rely on a RAS for all your shop needs.

As for danger - WARNING WILL ROBINSON, WARNING !!
A RAS can kick-back like a tablesaw. BUT, when it does, instead of throwing the wood at you it rides the blade over the wood and comes at you blade first until it slams into the end of the arm. If you're lucky, it will stop there. If not, and it keeps going - be prepared to eat spinning blade.

- To avoid this, always keep a strong grip on the motor head whenever the blade is spinning so you can strong-arm it into control as needed. Even when spinning down.
- NEVER stand directly behind the blade. Stand to one side.
- Keep your feet firmly planted and balanced. Keep a solid base to maintain control.
- ALWAYS know where your hands are, and keep them well away from the blade, and it's path.
- Don't use a dull blade to cut with. It increases the likelihood that the saw will kick. Always use sharp blades.

My intent isn't to make you afraid of your RAS. Fear only makes you more likely to make a mistake. What I am trying to teach is a healthy respect for the tool.

I recommend using plenty of scrap wood to practice cutting, so you learn a feel for the saw.

In addition, take the time to level and plumb the saw and any out-feed tables and fences. A stable base helps greatly in creating smooth cuts.

 

[WWIIjeep]

If I sell it, I would like to keep the stand and fit a drill press on it. What do you think I could get out of the saw?

Not much, because most people feel the way some of the other responders to your questions feel, and don't particularly like radial arm saws.

They've been a glut on the used tool market for years and never generate selling prices anywhere near what their actual worth is in use, adjusted properly, and equipped with a proper blade.

The photo is pretty dark, so it's hard to be sure, but that looks like a (DeWalt/B&D) Model 7740, which was a fairly popular 10" saw in its day.

My personal opinion is they don't do anything very well. I have my grandfathers 10" craftsman up at the cottage and it works but you're constantly chasing a square cut.

Your grandfather's 10" Craftsman wasn't one of the better radial arm saws even when it was new. The trouble with most models of Craftsman radial arm saws is that the column and the arm are not rigid enough to maintain accuracy over a wide range of types and sizes of material. There are brands and models out there, including the OP's, which can be adjusted to make cuts as accurate as any other type of saw on the market.

Don't use a dull blade to cut with. It increases the likelihood that the saw will kick. Always use sharp blades.

That, of course, is true of all types of circular saws.

Two other things that can cause radial arm saws to climb the work (what they actually do on crosscuts instead of kickback) are trying to feed too fast, and using the wrong type of blade. Combination blades intended for table saws are generally inappropriate for crosscutting on radial arm saws because they have the wrong tooth shape and clearance angle for use on a radial arm saw.

 

[Outlawmws]

There are good RAS and (many) bad/cheap RAS. They also require the right blade to be used safely.

As mentioned, study up on how to use it properly, THEN go use it.

 

[Outlawmws]

Sorry Duck, I don't agree.

I'm not that guy either, but I started with a GOOD RAS and have used it and its replacement (Same make, just bigger) to make a lot of cabinet grade things, and I'm no cabinet maker...

The biggest issue with RAS is the huge volume of **** made RAS out there in the wild.

 

[McFarmer]

Don't think you can rip on it, there are folks that do, but I won't.

 

[Aaroncl]

Thanks for the feed back. I reckon I've got some thinking to do since I only need a table saw every once in a while.

 

[Bigplum]

They work ok ,my ryobi is a devil to keep a straight cut on though , never figured out why , might be the blade flexing like a jig saw

 

[Aaroncl]

It is a black & decker/dewalt 7740. Is that a good one or was it a cheaper saw in its day?

 

[WWIIjeep]

It is a black & decker/dewalt 7740. Is that a good one or was it a cheaper saw in its day?

It was a moderately-priced model, about mid-range in quality compared to older or larger DeWalt models.

Here's an article worth reading:

http://mrsawdust.com/dewaltrebuild.pdf

 

[bob15]

That is a very nice saw. I have a B&D deluxe powershop....very similiar. I also have a "newer" DW miter saw. I prefer the RAS over the miter saw. You can do as much with a RAS as a miter saw and more. I can make dado cuts with it that you cannot with a miter saw. With the fence in the back being longer than most miter saws, it is (to me) better/more square for cross cutting wider boards. Also, you can rip a 2x with your RAS, you cannot with a miter saw, read the below manual. Keep the saw, buy a new blade and learn how to use it. You won't regret it.....

Look here for 7740 manuals:

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/722395-10,7740%20type%203.pdf

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/722395-10,7740%20type%203.pdf

 

[jakemac]

Thanks for the feed back. I reckon I've got some thinking to do since I only need a table saw every once in a while.

I picked up a used Makita contractor's saw cheap ($100 at the time) and have been using it for 20 years. A few years after buying it I bought a generic stand/table to put it in, making it more useful for sheet stock.

The saw itself is light enough to store on a shelf when not in use if space is tight.

(just an option for you to consider for later)

 

[cgv69]

I'm not going to get into a big debate about this because this is an old, well documented topic. (do a Google search and you will find all of the pro's and con's of the RAS) but I will just say this...

IMO there is a reason why RAS's can be found so cheaply and I for one wouldn't want one (especially the one you got) even if you gave me $20 to take it. Just my $.02 on it.

 

[bob15]

I'm not going to get into a big debate about this because this is an old, well documented topic. (do a Google search and you will find all of the pro's and con's of the RAS) but I will just say this...

IMO there is a reason why RAS's can be found so cheaply and I for one wouldn't want one (especially the one you got) even if you gave me $20 to take it. Just my $.02 on it.

Kind of a pointless reply....why not? What is wrong with the one he has?

Do you own one? Or are you just saying it's bad because you read it on the internet?

 

[jakemac]

IMO there is a reason why RAS's can be found so cheaply ........

Correct.
But that reason isn't because the RAS is useless. It's because there are fewer hobby woodworkers today. There is a glut on the market for used RAS's as the next generation of non-tool users clears out the shops of their fathers and grandfathers.

In addition there are newer, affordable (read - cheaply made), specialized tools available to cover the same functions as a RAS without taking up as much room in a cramped shop space.

........ and I for one wouldn't want one (especially the one you got) even if you gave me $20 to take it. Just my $.02 on it.

What are the issues you have with this particular model ? (genuine interest)

 

[Jswain]

I would have to disagree with all of the con-RAS posts. While I'm unsure how nice of a model yours would be it have and old craftsmen in my basement that I picked up for free. I spent a day cleaning it all up, downloaded the users manual and set everything up to be square in the correct order, and made a new tabletop/ fence for it. I leave it set to make perfectly square crosscuts and dados and it has never let me down. Being able to see the dados is a big bonus in my mind. I have never felt scared using mine I stand to the side and always keep a firm grip on the handle, as long as you keep a sharp blade on it and don't try to cut too fast you will be fine if you have half a head on your shoulders.

That being said it is a piece of rotating equipment with a cutting blade on it so there is obvious dangers that you have to respect, same as a tablesaw, router, etc. I wouldn't consider it to replace the tablesaw either you would be MUCH better off having both and use one to rip, and one to crosscut, then use your mitre saw for mitre cuts and you will save yourself a metric ton of time setting up your saws.

Working with any of these tools making sure the saw is set up correctly is the safest thing you can do, make sure everything is square and it has a sharp blade and enjoy it.

 

[Outlawmws]

There are good RAS and (many) bad/cheap RAS. They also require the right blade to be used safely.

SNIP.

SNIP

The biggest issue with RAS is the huge volume of **** made RAS out there in the wild.

I'm not going to get into a big debate about this because this is an old, well documented topic. (do a Google search and you will find all of the pro's and con's of the RAS) but I will just say this...

IMO there is a reason why RAS's can be found so cheaply and I for one wouldn't want one (especially the one you got) even if you gave me $20 to take it. Just my $.02 on it.

I did post the reason earlier...

Most of those internet "studies" are just as much **** as the **** saws they were based on. the mass produced saws sold by sears lower grades of B&D, and many others were the demise of the RAS. cheaply made, flexible bases, sliding mechanisms not rigid enough, not easily squared, and sloppy slides = a bad tool. based on the good reports of the early saws, those "new" improved" (Not) saws sold like hotcakes...

Sears/Craftsman has a recall on most of the RAS they sold (and others have the same recall on the same manufacturer's RAS.)

The recall was for a bad guard design, but these saws are typical of the mass produced **** RAS's out there. if you haven't used a good one, you really can't make the distinction.

And FYI what is a "sliding miter/chop saw" but the RAS reincarnated with less capability?

 

[djb2]

I inherited a radial arm saw from my grandfather about 20 years ago.
Even back then they were thoroughly out of favor, with no market.

They have a fundamental design challenge: rigidity. Just like a table saw, the straight blade tends to steer itself. But unlike a table saw, the table/clamps/fence are far away from the blade and motor bearings.

 

[gm54210]

I didn't see if it was mentioned, but it looks as if your saw is missing the anti-kickback pawl (not unusual). If so, do not attempt any rip cuts without one.

As for the model type it is typically considered "good to better". Not the best, but nowhere near as bad as the Craigslist omnipresent Emerson built Craftsmans. If I remember correctly, it has a cast iron ladder framed arm under the sheet metal cowl, holds alignment well and is competent machine.

As mentioned, getting the proper blade for a RAS is paramount. Most common blades have too much hook. You will want a blade with zero to negative hook. Having too much hook makes the cut too aggressive and is the reason so many people complain about the saw climbing the workpiece.
Freud LU83R - Decent price for a good combo blade. I use this one which I purchased from Amazon.
Forrest WW1 with TCP - Considered THE blade for RAS by many. Ordered directly from Forrest Mfg with the price to go with it.

The article WWIIJeep posted is a good reference to start with if you decide to proceed.

Just food for thought.

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

In my old house, where my 20x22 attached garage had to work as a place to keep one car, one motorcycle, woodworking tools, and tools to wrench on the cars, my RAS was the centerpiece of the woodworking shop.

With a properly calibrated RAS and a decent blade, I can make repeatable cuts at least as accurate as I can on a table saw. For compound miter cuts there is no equal. For ripping, it's more of a pain than a table saw because it takes some thought about infeed/outfeed (mostly, supporting the work on each side, but that's true of a table saw as well). For dados it is fantastic.

It is about as safe as a table saw (and therefore deserves the same amount of respect). You have the advantage of seeing the blade during the cut (unlike a table saw where the blade is under the work). A radial arm saw wants to push the material down against the table, and against the fence, in a crosscut. That's the safest thing you could ask for the material. That does mean the carriage is trying to come towards you, but at least you're holding the carriage.

I used mine to cut dollhouse porch railing. I split one of the dollhouse spindles in half with that saw with no tear out. I love my RAS. I wish I could find the picture of it...

They do require adjustment and it must be done with care, and in the proper order since once adjustment affects the others. Mine does not drift out of calibration much, and when it does it is simple to tune. I tune it about as often as I'd tune a table saw. If you're not checking your table saw's state of tune occasionally, you should.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Make sure you get the manual and set the table level, the heal/toe of blade (this means the blade is pulled through the cut straight), and set the angle of cut so that its 90 degrees and you will be a lot happier. Takes a little while to set up but you would not believe the difference in cut if it is not set up right. Over 40 years ago I had a friend come over and I was cutting some stuff with my RAS and he could not believe how easy that it would cut without burning the wood. He had the same model but didn't get the manual and had never set the heal/toe of the blade and could not hardly cut 1/2" plywood anything larger would stall the motor down. Watch where you put your hands like you would with any saw and you should not have any problems with it.

 

[mmack66]

3. If I sell it, I would like to keep the stand and fit a drill press on it. What do you think I could get out of the saw?


Thanks!
Aaron

$10, if you find that one guy.

 

[Zeke]

I've had a couple over some 40 years. I don't have one now and don't miss having one. If you have a miter saw and a decent table saw, at that point you could consider a RAS. But not instead of the other two.

They take some adjusting to do what they will do accurately. I've not seen too many that were adjusted perfectly. Therefore, things like compound miters were awful. Long dados often are shallow or deeper at one end. Things like that.

If you had a router plus the TS and MS, there would be absolutely no reason to have a RAS taking up real estate. And the stand is too big for a drill press. I vote get rid of it.

 

[Aaroncl]

GM54210- wow! I had no idea what good blades cost. I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade and don't woodwork as much as wrench turning.

I think out of respect for the tool I will clean it up, set it up properly with a new blade and experiment with it (slowly and safely). I really look forward to learning new things.