Older Two Wire Systems

[dkroth]

MIL's house was built in 1960. It was originally wired with that oldm woven, silvery colored two conductor cable - no ground wire.

The wiring in the basement is a mess - exposed splices, splices held together with tape, fixtures wired without junction boxes.

I offered to clean it up and install a handful of new outlets and some shop lights but I bowed out when I saw there was no ground to work with.

How do electricians deal with older systems with no ground?

BIL is calling a pro tomorrow. I'll be interested to see what he does.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not sure what you mean by "deal with"

The only stuff that actually needs a ground is appliances such as fridges, washers, dryers etc. Most everything else is 2 prong.

As far as extending a 2-wire circuit with a 3-wire circuit, the only code permissible way to do so is by installing a GFCI at the start of the 3-wire circuit.

 

[Moto]

If it is an unfinished basement, rewiring would be a good choice.

 

[ard]

BIL is calling a pro tomorrow. I'll be interested to see what he does.

Hmmm

If pro needs work or a new boat and thinks BIL and MIL are suckers, you might get one answer....

Or you might get a guy that says "yeah, you dont need grounded outlets- 2 wire is fine. I can clean up the unsafe stuff, then run 2 or 3 grounded circuits for A, b or C and then you can add to in the future as needs develop." or something like that.

IMO unsafe stuff, bare wires, open splices- all needs to be addressed. But two wire circuits are fine for most uses. Dont get scared into a project that might not be needed.

 

[sberry]

If I get a chance I cut the old out, it gives a chance for new design and no better way than to replace old ratty wire. It's already over 50 years old.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The only stuff that actually needs a ground is appliances such as fridges, washers, dryers etc. Most everything else is 2 prong.

Never understood why all PCs laptop chargers and many other electronics had a ground lead !

As far as extending a 2-wire circuit with a 3-wire circuit, the only code permissible way to do so is by installing a GFCI at the start of the 3-wire circuit.

Using GFCI where 3 prong outlet are required is the way to go ! They give you a sticker in the box to label the outlet as not having a connected ground and any down stream outlets are required to have the same sticker if you change them to 3 prong.

Worst case, make about a 8x8 cut out around the existing outlet box. Now you can get to the staple holding the romex. R&R after that. With a hole that size, patching should not be a problem.

The sparky is going to charge you an arm and a leg and want to bring the whole house up to current code.

 

[sberry]

2 things here. Bringing the whole place to current wasn't mentioned only ratty old sheet hanging around the basement. The reason some electronics have grounded power is the steel in them or circuit design it requires short circuit protection. 3rd, while gfci is the way to fly the place may not be wired to facilitate it, you never know how all these circuits are connected etc. It still does not protect against arc fault and it may be ok to connect it to wire that is still suitable, doesn't mean its a good thing to hook up a rats nest, to a string of faulty connections and bare or degraded wire.
While there may be some opinion on here that I may be a hack this is something I do or don't do, the do p[art is almost compulsively and at first chance or opportunity I replace old faulty equipment, wire and service panels. I aint scared to buy a couple new rolls of wire and go right on around it. If it doesn't say NMB on it, it doesn't fly.

The wiring in the basement is a mess - exposed splices, splices held together with tape, fixtures wired without junction boxes.

there was no ground to work with.

Also without even looking can tell the kitchen counters are probably overloaded. I went to one the other day to reset a breaker, 3 ways, cords all connected to a 15A circuit along with some lights.

 

[theoldwizard1]

2 things here. Bringing the whole place to current wasn't mentioned only ratty old sheet hanging around the basement.

I only mentioned it because it could be a "short walk" from fixing up those issues.

My daughter's old house was built in the late 40s, so all 2 wire. They did upgrade the load center in the 80s when they added A/C, but nothing else was changed.

Shortly after they moved in I added a couple of GCFIs so the could get rid of those stupid 3-to-2 prong adapters. At least the plugs were not falling out of the wall anymore !

When I redid the kitchen, I needed 4 additional circuits. 2 of course were GFCI and the other just standard 3 prong receptacles. Thank goodness I could find 4 tandems for that 1980s load center ! (Old QO load centers will not take new QO tandems !)

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Not sure what you mean by "deal with"

The only stuff that actually needs a ground is appliances such as fridges, washers, dryers etc. Most everything else is 2 prong.

As far as extending a 2-wire circuit with a 3-wire circuit, the only code permissible way to do so is by installing a GFCI at the start of the 3-wire circuit.

 

[Falcon67]

LOL, the house we bought here in 1997 still had knob and tube, including wall switches. It also had that early silver "romex" cable taped on to the knob and tube runs. One 20A FP breaker would kill nearly every outlet in the house. The AC and washer/dryer had separate boxes with modern wiring. In all there were 5 boxes tapped off the meter base.

How did I "deal" with it? Mounted a 150A 20 spot box, pulled a lot of runs up the wall into the attic and mounted a raft - 14 IIRC - of boxes on a brace in the attic to terminate the runs. Pulled the meter, removed 4 of the boxes (left the AC with GE breakers - it was fine), tapped in the 150 and back fed the old FP panel, stuck the meter back on. Made a plan and over time wired in light and plugs in sections to the new feeds.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The other option i forgot to mention is adding a separate EGC to the 2-wire circuit to make it 3-wire.

 

[arkieguide]

I have been in the electrical business for many years say 1957. In my time I have fixed the old service of 2 plug fuses, wired to telephone wire, zip cord, and ever thing except bailing wire, not yet anyway.2 wire circuits were the norm until not to many years ago. One of my brothers bought a house built in the 60's, had a crawl space we added a ground wire to ever thing in the house.he wanted it that way for his peace of mind. 1000's and more are today still wired with a 2 wire system.I built my own house in 1966, but used romex with ground.