Opening a garage door that's really a wall

[dan-d]

Like a garage door but a wall... I'm considering building a wall in an industrial shop (read "big garage") that would spend most of its time hoisted up out of the way by a garage door opener and drop into place on the infrequent but important occasion when we want to show a potential client our product.

99% of the time the building is a workshop. We want to build a demo wall to feature in-wall loudspeakers that are in development. There isn't really wall space to spare so we're thinking of building a 8.5' h x 10' w wall that would lift out of the way for the majority of time. When we bring potential clients we drop the wall down and turn the workshop into a listening room. As you might imagine demoing in-wall speakers has some logistical problems. Like you can't take the speakers over to someone's place and demo them without busting a hole in their wall to get a realistic take on their sound characteristics. So we need a listening room but are short on floor space.

The height of the area we're considering is about 14' high before we hit ductwork and then about another 4' above that to the rafters. The wall would be wood-frame w sheetrock and weigh in at about 400 lbs (or so). Ideally its "storage" position would be 9'-10' high. At that height we can also test and demo the speakers in-ceiling capabilities.

In searching the web it seems not many people use one-piece garage doors and the lifting capacity of the openers is seldom mentioned. Any thoughts on how doable and/or what kind of gotchas we'd be getting into?
Thanks, dan-d

 

[Junkman]

Hire a structural engineer to design it. If you have to ask the questions that you pose, you are way over your head and there is a definite safety factor that needs to be considered.

 

[dan-d]

Hire a structural engineer to design it. If you have to ask the questions that you pose, you are way over your head and there is a definite safety factor that needs to be considered.

That wasn't the answer I was looking for, but it sounds like the reality check I needed. Thanks for your input. I'll hire a pro.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Look into the hoisting systems that they use in stage productions to lift sceenery backdrops. The issue is not only lifting but safety for people below.

 

[IDASHO]

The issue is not only lifting but safety for people below.

Not just that, in this case it sounds like it will be in a commercial or retain area.

Whole new ballgame.

 

[Down Under Bloke]

Have you thought about a fixed permanent ceiling and swing up walls?

Advantages:
You only need a pulley system to lift each wall from the bottom separately so moving weight is greatly reduced.
You could use the speakers when in the up position as a shop stereo.

Disadvantage:
You may need to put some lights in your walls to light your shop when the walls are in the up position.

 

[MikeN]

Uhm... if that is your business, build a REAL listening room. It will be worth it.

 

[dps]

I don't believe you'd really have to hire someone if you can figure out a few basics. 400 lbs. is really not much. A 200 pound rock climber can fall 10 feet or more and be safely stopped with a rope that's about a half inch in diameter. Imagine what a 1/2 steel cable could hold with total safety.

Maybe on your top plate you've got an appropriately sized eyebolt sticking up with a decent backing plate inside. This runs up to an appropriately rated pulley (easy to find them rated several times that) and angles over and down to a geared winch such as are commonly found at the front of a boat trailer.

IMO the only worry is making sure that your pulley is attached to something that can take the extra load with no problem. If they're standard sized joists you could just bridge a couple of them and now it's no worse than two guys standing overhead having a discussion separated by a foot or so...

A marine supply store could probably outfit you completely in one stop.

 

[KingPerformance]

The main concern isn't the cable, its the engineering behind it that makes that cable function. He needs to hire a true structrual engineer OR build a room.

 

[May Pop]

How about building a metal stud wall covered with 1/4" drywall. To raise and lower it put it on garage door tracks. Weight is your most important consideration. Garage doors are heavy , metal stud walls are light. You would need plenty of cross bracing but it will work out very well.
Ron

 

[fefarms]

Garage door openers have essentially no static lift capacity. Garage doors and their openers work because they have counterbalance springs, either torsional or linear. Unless you mount your wall in essentially the same manner as a garage door, complete with springs of suitable size, you can forget that approach.

 

[elvee]

Whoever mentioned the stage type work is dead on. As soon as it become lifting over the heads of people (even if just for storage) everything changes. A boat trailer winch is not rated for lifting at all, most electric chain hoists are marked by the manufacturer for not lifting over the heads of people. There are certainly ways to do it, and to do it safely, but you need to talk to someone who designs and builds these systems for a living. I work for one such company if you have questions.

As far as what a rock climbing rope can withstand, there is a lot more to the dynamic functions of those lines than you think. Shock loading has an incredible effect on the loads at the anchor. A 200 pound person falling 5 feet can exert a force of greater than 1000 pounds on that line. The more free fall, the greater the load.

 

[dps]

"As far as what a rock climbing rope can withstand, there is a lot more to the dynamic functions of those lines than you think. Shock loading has an incredible effect on the loads at the anchor. A 200 pound person falling 5 feet can exert a force of greater than 1000 pounds on that line."

Exactly my point. If that thin rope can support a 1000 pound dynamic load, think how small a steel cable can be to support a 400 pound static load. And if trailer winches are not made for lifting loads, why is the smallest one I quickly found at $29 rated at 1300 pounds?

If there's a huge worry about being overhead, place two loops of cable running from the ceiling parallel to the ends of the walls and a little closer together than the width of the wall such that after the wall is in the raised position you can pull the loops over the bottom of the wall and let the winch (or whatever) back down a notch or two until the loops are taking the weight instead. Now your winch and cable become your "safety".

 

[elvee]

The winch you are referring to is rated for the amount it is rated to pull. Yes, technically, you can reeve a cable through a set of pulleys and use that winch as a lift, and it will indeed do what you are proposing. However, that crank winch is not designed with a sufficient enough braking system to safely control the load while it is being lifted or lowered.

Now, we are talking about a commercial space. What you can do in your own garage without concern for a workplace safety inspection does not apply. You have insurance companies and OSHA to contend with now. If the device you are using for lifting over the heads of people isn't rated for such, and if you can't demonstrate that your connection points to both the building and the load aren't properly sized and rated for the load you are dealing with, then you are no longer in compliance. If an accident happens your insurance company no longer needs to cover you because you were not playing by the rules.

There is an enormous difference between what is possible, and how something should be done to be safe and compliant with codes and standard practice. That is the only point I am trying to make.

 

[1320stang]

I think building a room, if not there, maybe somewhere else, is the best idea. Commercial space and OSHA and insurance companies would have very strict guidelines with this, even if Osha approves it, I imagine the increase of insurance will offset the cost of moving to a new space or adding a sound room in a different location.

2nd option, move to a new location.

 

[dps]

I agree with everything elvee says. My between-the-lines take by the OP was that he was looking for a budget method without necessarily involving all the extras. Around here, most engineers won't sign off on anything without a pretty good fee. Some won't do it at all without a permit, and I don't blame them. Now the fees are starting to add up, and you still haven't started paying for the actual wall, and if you've got any questionable or past work showing without a permit you're liable for that as well. In a "real" shop all that's no problem, but I sure have met a lot of small business owners that would not welcome all that.

 

[Ironcrow]

Pivot and counterweight the wall. No pulleys, no cables, essentially zero force require to rotate wall up and down. No winch, no motor.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Have you considered a "wall" built on wheels that can be rolled off to the side when not in use. It wold require some protruding l
"legs" for stability. But it would be easy to do and not have the safety and liability issues that come with going overhead.

 

[tck4x4]

How about using two chain hoists, hang them from the building trusses.
Put two eye bolts in the top of the wall to attach the hooks.
Build the wall with two 1" pipes protruding from the bottom, then drill
two holes in the floor to accept the pipes, this will keep the wall upright and in
place while it is down.

These hoists are rated for overhead lifting.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1613495043

Dayton 1/2 ton chain hoist with 10 ft of lift.