Opinions/Input on Import Mills and Lathes

[zmotorsports]

I have been doing some research lately as I am looking to sell my Smithy mill/lathe combo and get a separate lathe and mill. I will be getting a lathe first then as money allows a mill. I don't have any room to give up which is why I bought the 3-in-1 in the first place about 15 years ago. The Smithy has done good by me for the most part as I have learned a lot and machined many parts over years for our race car, motorcycles and sand toys as well as customer paying jobs. I upgraded some components on the unit which definitely helped. It has been a pretty good lathe but in my opinion not a great mill with the round column and lack of rigidity but I have learned to work with what I had.

I have been looking off/on for about six months now and to be perfectly honest I have been very disappointed in the older American machines that I have found. At first I thought that I will only upgrade to some "old iron". However, most of what I am looking at is pretty much worn out and would require additional cost and a lot of time to bring back. The ones that are not worn out are way to large for a small performance/race/fabrication shop. I thought I hit a winner last night as I found an early 60's Logan lathe locally. I checked it out and was extremely disappointed and then pissed at myself for making the two hour drive in evening traffic.

I know many will chime in and ***** slap me for talking import equipment and believe me I have banged my head against the wall all by myself and don't need any help.

That said, I have done some research as far as opinions on some of the import equipment such as Grizzly, Enco, Jet, PM (Precision Mathews), Eisen, Rung Fu and some others just by using google and reading some of the machining forums. I really don't want to join another forum but I thought I would ask here.

Does anyone own any of these import machines (lathes and mills) and what are your overall experience and/or opinions of them. Again, I know I will get verbally abused for not buying old iron but I am seriously leaning towards one of these. One in particular that has appealed to me is the PM brand. I was looking at a Grizzly 4003G lathe and G0730 mill but then stumbled across a PM 1236 lathe that caught my eye and also started looking at their mills. I would love to have a large Bridgeport but simply don't have the room nor can justify a piece of equipment taking up that much real estate for the dozen or so times a month I would use it.

I would appreciate some feedback from those of you who have been down this same road.

Thanks.

Mike.

 

[John in OH]

No need to be concerned regarding your consideration of import machine tools, since, as far as I know, there is no North American manufacturer of smaller shop machine tools (possible exception may be Wells-Index, if they even still exist). Your choice is quite limited ... new import or old US iron.

Look, unless US manufacturing makes a huge change in direction, sooner or later all the "good" old US iron is going to become old, worn-out US junk. It won't last forever. And, since I'm sure Utah is not a hot-bed of good, used US iron, I think your consideration of import is well founded. And I'm a long supporter of US manufacturing, but until we get our act together again, ya gotta go import.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the different import brands so can't offer any opinions there.

 

[sberry]

My neighbor has an import mill, quite good. Good enough I aint got to buy one.

 

[bobcatdan]

The guy that lives next to my work is a retired machinist and has a very nice little shop in his garage. He has a grizzly and is happy with it. He bought it because he could not find anything used for less money. His only complain is it won't cut one common SAE thread, but I forget which he said.

 

[454ragtop]

I started with a 10" Atlas, which while it did work, left a lot to be desired in the rigidity department, plus no quick change gear box. Found an older Taiwan made Jet 12 X 36 belt drive lathe from a school. It had been somewhat abused, but was such a huge step up from the Atlas I couldn't believe it. It is a good machine, has a decent spindle thru hole (1 3/8"), and will cut both SAE and metric threads, both of which are lacking in most US made lathes of this size. I still have it, and use it, even though I've since picked up a Monarch 16" X 60". I think you will be happy with an imported lathe of 12" swing or bigger, the smaller ones, not so much. No experience with import mills, other than a mill drill, which I wouldn't recommend, and don't own myself anymore.
Good luck, Jim

 

[zkling]

At the end of the day they can usually get the job done no problem. Grizzly, Jet, Enco are some of the better ones.

An old american or euro machine can be nice, but it can also be a headache and $ pit if it has seen a hard life. It is just like a tool box. You can buy a clapped out one and spend a bunch of time and money fixing it up. Or you can sit around waiting for X ammount of time before a nice one shows up at a good price. OR you can get busy making parts with an import while a nicer used machine shows up down the road if at that time you need it. AKA buy the HF44"

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks everyone so far for your input. I am feeling better about the ones I am looking at.

I know there are people out there that own both the Grizzly and the Precision Mathews as I remember seeing several on various threads. I would like to hear how they feel about them and whether they would recommend them or not.

Thanks again everyone and keep the feedback coming. I am sure I am not the only one who is wondering. Probably the only one stupid enough to dare ask.

Mike.

 

[John in OH]

One additional minor consideration .... most older US lathes will not cut metric threads. As you do more and more work on newer cars and bikes or whatever, this limitation may become an issue.

 

[zmotorsports]

One additional minor consideration .... most older US lathes will not cut metric threads. As you do more and more work on newer cars and bikes or whatever, this limitation may become an issue.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about that much until I ran across a post on another forum a few months back. Definitely worth considering.

Mike.

 

[zmotorsports]

What about the Precision Mathews PM-45? Any thoughts or anyone who has one that can comment on.

While I am at it I may get a descent deal on a two-fer deal. I was looking at the larger vertical knee mills a while back but the hard facts are I simply don't have the room, and actually not quite the need for such a large machine.

I like the looks of the PM-45 and noticed it now has a powered down feed for the quill(Z-axis) available.

Mike.

 

[Stephenw]

Is this your Smithy?

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=24332251&cat=&lpid=2&search=lathe&ad_cid=2

 

[zmotorsports]

Is this your Smithy?

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=24332251&cat=&lpid=2&search=lathe&ad_cid=2

Nope, that one is not mine. I saw that one a few days ago. He doesn't have any accessories or tooling that goes with it and personally, I think he is a bit high on his price.

I am going to ask $3k for mine and that come with quite a few accessories such as the 6" 3-jaw chuck that came with the machine, plus an 8" four-jaw, large smooth-jaw vice, adapter table with fine adjustments, a couple of different face plates, some boring bars, a boring head, facing head/attachment, about a half dozen different end mill/tooling adapters to fit the quill taper, several different drill chucks and some others.

Mine is in exceptional condition with no nicks or dings on the ways, the crossfeeds or the table. The lead screw even looks almost new. The paint is a little worn from use and cleaning but for the most part it is in pristine condition and would be a great buy for the home hobbyist.

When I get mine listed up on ksl.com I will throw the ad up here as well if anyone is interested.

Mike.

 

[tdkkart]

I wouldn't have any qualms at all with buying one of the Grizzly "Gunsmith" lathes, or an equivalent model from PM. If you listen to the people who actually own and use them they generally give glowing reviews. Do some searching on Youtube and you'll find several reviews of these machines.

I totally agree that while buying old USA made machinery is the noble thing to do and will get you some sort of hero status down at the local coffee shop, the reality of the situation is that the stock of useable old iron is hugely scattered and dwindling rapidly, especially in those parts of the country where there never were any in the first place.
I have gotten lucky and secured a couple examples of my own, but it took a long time, diligence and some good luck to get them. I was very close more than once to buying new models.

 

[sberry]

I certainly got to agree with the post above. Some people are born for the deals, they got the cash, the right change on hand and willing to wait, willing to sit on a little and learned not to buy junk that isn't fluid. They double their money and sometimes do some work provided the numbers make great sense.

My neighbor is a smart guy with some education and lots of spearience as we say and I watched him got thru this in a small garage. Same game,,, space, collect this and that in spare time, still aint done, 10 yrs of it between a couple 2 or 3 machines.

After all that you still need,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, a welder and a torch and now days considering gas and consumables a plasma makes sense fast.

 

[sberry]

I got a bud with the Harley shop, got a whole bunch of old tools but he is a power shopper and scored a deal the other day on some old mint lathe from some old timer he knew for 150 and a fist full of tools. I thought of this crowd, would have rushed at it for 900 with no effort and he could have marketed it for double that.

The avg guy cant compete, my bud will buy and sell anything. Same for real welder deals here, considering factory perks etc and a long warranty I always bought new when I needed it. I didn't want to assemble, I wanted fak pac 50A single phase.

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks guys for the input. I am not into the buy and sell gig as I don't seem to come out ahead. I am good at wrenching, welding and getting much better at machining so that is where I focus. I thought I would give myself a few months to find a piece of "old iron" in the way of lathe and mill but now after six months all I am finding is worn out junk that has had the best years of service well behind them.

I am to the point I just want to upsize my lathe and mill and get back to work making chips and earning money. My little Smithy was an import and I got criticized by friends and co-workers when I purchased it, however,it has served me well for the past 15+ years and I have made probably ten times over what I paid for it. It is a pretty good lathe but the mill does leave a little something to be desired. Mainly due to design (round column) more so than the brand or country of origin.

I was discussing with my son and wife about what we want the machines to do not only now but say 10-15 years down the road since I feel I have outgrown my Smithy in the past 15+ years. We came to the conclusion that the kind of work we are doing now will hopefully be the same in the future and so if we get the equipment for our current needs we should still be setup in the future.

I feel I am really leaning towards the PM-1340GT (lathe) and the PM-45M (mill) as I have read some great reviews and have watched a few on youtube. I think those will pretty much cover anything I do or will do in my shop.

Mike.

 

[tdkkart]

You've gotten your money's worth out of the Smithy. You've gotten 15 years use out of it while some of your bad-mouthing buddies are probably still wishing they had a mill and lathe. You can afford to give Smithy away, and I'll bet one of your buddies would be glad to have it.

The PM 1340 looks like a decent lathe. I would spring for the lever-type 5C collet closer up front, and maybe the DRO if you can swing it, both are well worth the money.
I don't have any experience with the benchtop mills, though the square column models do get around the round column issues you are well aware of.