Opinions on heat pump

[lo c dan]

Opinions on heat pump / Up-Date

I'm looking for advise on a heat pump system. Trane 15 3ton heat pump for a 1400sq.ft. Ranch included is a oversized one car garage. ( electric ). I'm looking to reinforce my Internet knowledge reading, and still undecided. My old system trane 2 ton has never really worked, ran itself to death never really would catch up to its self during heavy heat or cold that we are experiencing. Please guide me through a difficult time of letting go of that all mighty dollar....

 

[pop pop]

First decision should be a qualified and trained hvac company.
Next pick a brand that is well built and serviceable. I like Carrier and Lennox, but yemv.
Finally, don't buy the cheapest not any system without the proper design calculations for your structure and area.

 

[lo c dan]

Installer has been in this area for 50 years, it ain't cheep, and is designed for my sq.ft. Looking for a slap on the *** that it's a good product. A tick over 6400$ what's a better buy? I'm old what is yemv?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm old what is yemv?

Internet abbreviation for "Your mileage may vary" (The cost/price may differ in your area.)

It possible, get 2 or 3 quotes, especially different brands. What do you use for auxiliary heat, when the temperature drops below freezing ? Resistance heating is very expensive. Some newer designs can heat your house down to close to zero.

Also the compressor needs to be located where it get plenty of ventilation. If possible it should be located in an area that is shaded during the heat of the day.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Have you considered 2 or 3 min-split systems ? It won't save you any on intsallation, but it will save on cost of operation.

You might be able to keep what you have and add-on 1 mini-split.

 

[pop pop]

Installer has been in this area for 50 years, it ain't cheep, and is designed for my sq.ft. Looking for a slap on the *** that it's a good product. A tick over 6400$ what's a better buy? I'm old what is yemv?

I'm old too! Back in the day, I studied HVAC from a book written by Carrier and Grant. So here is more detail:
There are many "good" products. I'd recommend you look at Carrier and Lennox's upper tier products. All have lower tier (cheap) systems that will bite you later. The top or second from best are usually well made. I don't care for Trane at all.
Sized for your sq. ft. alone don't mean squat. You must take into account air leakage, sun angle windows, doors, and lots of other data. A good company will have the engineer on staff or on call to do this right.
If you have high summer humidity, seriously consider a humidistat and the variable speed air handlers.
Don't recommend using a heat pump below ~35*, so you need a back up source. I use gas and love it. It's called a dual fuel system. You can use propane, butane or other fuel. Electric resistance is spendy in most areas, but cheap to install.
YEMV is my shorthand for your experience may vary (from my recommended brands).

 

[pseudorealityx]

Strip heat is expensive, but for South Carolina, the number of hours you'll spending using the strip heater is fairly small. There's a payback you could calculate if you wanted to. But if you don't currently have gas heat available, then it's likely the best solution. Always size your strip heater for at least a 20 degree delta T at max airflow.

(airflow * delta T)/3160 will give you the KW you want at 240v.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Not a huge Carrier fan, but I won't go so far as to say their products are "bad". I just don't like the way they do some of the little things that are only annoying to a service tech but have nothing to do with overall operation. My experience has been Trane has one of the toughest hermetic reciprocating compressors on the market. At least back when I was more involved in service work. Like pop pop said, stick with upper tier stuff & you should be fine.

Tommy

 

[custom1]

We have an American Standard (Trane) Heat pump that was installed about 9 years ago. It is great. I am not sure of the size, but it is a two stage with a variable speed air handler. The thermostat has an LED that is green when on the first stage and yellow on second stage and you can hear the air handler increase speed. I am never sure when it goes to the electric strips, though it can't be very often. It is great having the house be all electric. Got rid of the big propane tank that was here when we moved in. And don't have another utility(NG) charging us a service fee every month even if we only use it in the winter. Just that savings pays for the electric that it might use while on the backup strips. Our electric bills are around $150 per month in the winter for a 1000 sq ft ranch in PA. (Full disclosure....we have a high efficiency wood burner in the basement that we use 5 or 6 nights a week for a few hours that will keep the heat pump off until we go to bed.) Our electric rate is about 13 cents per KWH delivered. If it works in Pa it's got to work in SC.

 

[tomroblee]

I'm not sure what kind of comments you are wanting. I had a rural home built about 8 years ago in SW Indiana. It's a peculiar place, but about 1100 sq ft of living space on each of two floors. I went with separate heat pumps for each floor to avoid some problems in installing ductwork. I used Nordyne equipment with a 14 SEER. It has electric resistance for back up. I'm happy with it, and my total annual electric bill is about $1000 for an all electric house. That includes the REMC's fixed charge of about $30 per month in addition to the charge per KWH.

When I was shopping for the head pumps I found that most of the "manufacturers" bought the major components (compressors, etc) from other companies. My el cheapo Nordyne equipment seemed to use most of the same components as the more expensive brand names. The name brand equipment is only sold through factory authorized dealers---and that ensures relatively high overhead and prices.

There are a lot of very good HVAC people who install the non exclusive brands because they don't have access to name brand equipment. (This is often because residential HVAC work may be a side business for an employee or retiree of a company that performs its own HVAC work.) Finding such a person may not be easy.

The price of the equipment seems to jump rapidly as the efficiency increases. One friend who is in the HVAC business told me that the top of the line equipment is designed for "people who want to save money ---regardless of how much it costs them". I'm not against high efficiency, but you should consider whether some of you money might be better spent by reducing your heating/cooling load (by installing more insulation, reducing air infiltration, etc.) rather than by buy super high efficient equipment.

Your post mentions your garage. For safety reasons, I hope that your house and garage don't share the same HVAC system. It's great to blow conditioned air into your garage, but you don't want to return the garage air (fumes) back into you house

 

[lo c dan]

Thanks for everyone's input. There are less expensive systems and cheaper installers. To me a company that will be in business when it comes time for service or warranty issues plays a bigger part to our thoughts. As for ading HVAC to the garage it's more of a future thought as to a game room, no cold air return so fumes won't be an issue. As far as an engineer coming to the house determining sun light angle etc. don't forget I'm in the south I have yet to find anyone that puts much effert into much of anything, or maybe the times we are living in I dunno. I am very happy with the choice made for my application, and company chosen to do the work at hand....thank you everyone again for this discussion, is has Inlightened my thinking proses. ( Electric 3 ton 15 seer Trane )

 

[Jackfre]

Google "doeduct leakage" Get your duct tested FIRST and make your decisions from there. Cost to properly repair the ducting and then you buy/install the new equipment. Please let us know how the duct repair conversation goes with your HVAC guy.

TOW's idea on the mini-split is, in my experience, right on. Look into these. In SC they will do the entire job and be much more efficient than your Trane.

Fujitsu, Mitsubishi and Daikin are the best brands.

 

[lo c dan]

doeduct leakage.. Yah right not in the scope in my area. Loosing faith in my desition I'm considered entry level at 6400 and some change feeling small tonight.....

 

[east_tn_emc]

Installed a duel fuel-dual stage American Standard. Love it. Above ~35f it is a heat pump and then switches over to natural gas.

 

[lo c dan]

Only electric available no gas no two stage dual fuel... My system just took a ****... No two stage anything...easy peezy only. No leak system checks....flex one end to the other....

 

[pop pop]

Before the refrigerant charge, if they don't have an electronic vacuum meter (not the manifold with two gages everyone has) don't let them follow through with the Freon. MUST be evacuated to ~25 microns. 98% don't do it. Have them read the install manual in the box with the unit! This one thing will save you service calls and extend the life of the unit years, plus keep the efficiency at the 15 seers.

 

[lo c dan]

Re: Opinions on heat pump / Up - Date

Since my last post, I went with a Trane 15 SEER 2 stage system. Added heat and air to the garage and 2 extra ducts in the kitchen area. Kinda neat system, the outside heat pump ramps up to speed until it reaches optimum. Then the system in our attic slowly ramps up to optimum. At the end of its cycle it slowly dims until off...Sorry it doesn't take much to fascinate me. Along with the soft touch Wi-Fi screen thermostat that can also be operated on the i-pad..with all that said my 1400 sq' cave is saving me get this my electric bill ran about $364.. now with all things figured in weather time of year is now $158 a month....

 

[James-W]

Re: Opinions on heat pump / Up - Date

......my electric bill ran about $364.. now with all things figured in weather time of year is now $158 a month....

That's quite a savings. It is amazing how much better the technology has gotten over the years.

 

[lo c dan]

Re: Opinions on heat pump / Up - Date

That's quite a savings. It is amazing how much better the technology has gotten over the years.

We are only talkin' 10 years, the age of the old unit

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Five years ago, I put in an expensive, high-end, three-stage heating, two-stage cooling system.
A well-known brand.
First year, the two-stage Copeland compressor went out.
Second year, the TXV (reversing) valve went bad, twice.
Third year, the fan went out.
Fourth year, a very slow freon leak appeared.
Fifth year, the leak re-appeared.
I was advised to replaced the entire air handler since they couldn't find the leak, at a cost of thousands.
The installer screwed up on sending my warranty info in to the mother company and most of the above was not covered.
Tomorrow I get a whole new system installed.
At my expense.
It is a single-stage heat pump.
Fewer parts to break.
No more fancy-schmancy, high-end for me.
I'm keeping it simple.
Fewer parts, fewer problems.
Using a reputable HVAC company this time.
Costs more than the lowest bid.
But it's worth it.

 

[Jackfre]

Five years ago, I put in an expensive, high-end, three-stage heating, two-stage cooling system.
A well-known brand.
First year, the two-stage Copeland compressor went out.
Second year, the TXV (reversing) valve went bad, twice.
Third year, the fan went out.
Fourth year, a very slow freon leak appeared.
Fifth year, the leak re-appeared.
I was advised to replaced the entire air handler since they couldn't find the leak, at a cost of thousands.
The installer screwed up on sending my warranty info in to the mother company and most of the above was not covered.
Tomorrow I get a whole new system installed.
At my expense.
It is a single-stage heat pump.
Fewer parts to break.
No more fancy-schmancy, high-end for me.
I'm keeping it simple.
Fewer parts, fewer problems.
Using a reputable HVAC company this time.
Costs more than the lowest bid.
But it's worth it.

A all of those parts should have been covered by warranty and with that kind of track record should have been grounds for system replacement by the manuf. As well, with that history, I'd suspect improper installation. IMHO, your dealer took you to the cleaners!

 

[lo c dan]

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