Options for Pulling New Circuits

[Indycars]

My goal is to make pulling new circuits much easier. I have insulated this outside wall and would be pulling into a stud cavity that is hard to access. I'm thinking I have two options, although the 2nd option doesn't look very promising.

Option 1: Install a sub panel in the attic, just inside the attic door. This would give very easy access to the sub panel when pulling new circuits, since it would be completely open on all sides.

Option 2: Install conduit/PVC tubing to the main breaker panel. This would help with pulling new circuits, assuming I can actually get the conduit installed. Maybe removing a 2-3 inch section of the top plate, assuming it's not that important the strength of the structure. I have access thru the soffit and from inside the attic.

Option 1 Questions:
1. What kind of cable, NM or individual conductors?
2. What size of cable for a 100A sub panel that would require 18' of cable?
3. Will code allow NM type cable?

Option 2 Questions:
1. Will removing a 2-3 inch section of the top plate hurt the structure?
2. Will code allow multiple NM cables inside the same conduit and how do I clamp them as they enter the main panel?

Additional Questions:
1. How do I tell what Amp service I have, can you tell by looking at the meter?

2. Any other options I have not mentioned?

Appreciate any advice/opinions you have to offer....thanks!


Rick

 

[rockwithjason]

i would drill the top plate for some aluminum flex. you should be able to pull the flex into the panel pretty easily and a one inch flex will hold about 9 circuits or so depending on what is being installed.

 

[Indycars]

i would drill the top plate for some aluminum flex. you should be able to pull the flex into the panel pretty easily and a one inch flex will hold about 9 circuits or so depending on what is being installed.

Thanks rockwithjason for the feedback!

One inch will carry 9 circuits of NM(Non-Metallic) cables, really that many??? Sounds kinda tough to put another cable in when there might be 4 cables already in the flex conduit.

Rick

 

[Keep]

Thanks rockwithjason for the feedback!

One inch will carry 9 circuits of NM(Non-Metallic) cables, really that many??? Sounds kinda tough to put another cable in when there might be 4 cables already in the flex conduit.

Rick

I think that is with running individual wires and not using romex. When I wired up my garage I was told (by my electrician neighbor) to strip the romex and run individual wires, its easier to run that way and leaves more space for more circuits.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I think that is with running individual wires and not using romex. When I wired up my garage I was told (by my electrician neighbor) to strip the romex and run individual wires, its easier to run that way and leaves more space for more circuits.

I don't think Romex is intended to have the jacket stripped off and used as individual wires, except in panels and boxes at terminations. The wires themselves do not usually have any markings on them and if they are unmarked, they would not be legal to use, as I think the code requires wire and cable to bear markings.

Indycars needs to run these wires out in the open after they leave the conduit anyhow.

Charles

 

[Indycars]

Keep,

That would make more since pulling individual wires, but it just sounds crowed at 9 circuits or 27 conductors in a 1 inch conduit.

Charles,

Indycars needs to run these wires out in the open after they leave the conduit anyhow.

True, conduit would be to make access to the panel easier. I don't have any experience pulling wire thru a flexible conduit. The corrugated surface seems like it could make pulling wires difficult. That why I was leaning toward pulling a 100 amp cable one time for a subpanel, but I'm not sure if code will allow me to place a breaker box in the attic.


Rick

 

[Harm]

Hi. I'm not sure if my suggestion is to code but could you: Cut the OSB in the attic and drill several holes through your top plate and then inside the garage cut a large hole in the drywall above your current subpanel and install a big access panel instead. That would give you easy access to the entire top of your panel from above for fishing. No extra sub and no conduit. I'm just not sure about access doors over wires.

 

[Indycars]

Hi. I'm not sure if my suggestion is to code but could you: Cut the OSB in the attic and drill several holes through your top plate and then inside the garage cut a large hole in the drywall above your current subpanel and install a big access panel instead. That would give you easy access to the entire top of your panel from above for fishing. No extra sub and no conduit. I'm just not sure about access doors over wires.

I would definitely remove the OSB to make it easier to access the top plate like you suggested. Drilling holes in the top plate look to be a challenge, since the roof comes down to meet the top plate. I would have to drill at an angle. Guess I'm going to have to crawl back there and see just how hard it would be.

Like you I'm not sure about code on this one.

Thanks for the feedback!


Rick

 

[Indycars]

Just wanted to update my thread and show what I finally decided to do with my project. I had an electrician come out to see what he suggested and how much it would cost. He suggested running 6 flexible conduits into the service panel. He wanted to get back with me on the price, but did say before leaving about $600. He never did call back.

I had setup an appointment with another electrician, but he never showed up. So I took ideas from RockWithJason and Harm along with ideas from the electrician and went forward on my own.




If I’m going to cut a hole in the sheetrock, then it might as well be as big as I need to make this easy. As you can see I cut along three studs, this will make it easy to put the sheetrock back and repair the seams. It won’t just fall into the hole with the studs there.

Using the 40% rule (3.5x.4=1.4”), the maximum dia hole I could drill would be 1-3/8”. Thus the biggest conduit I could run would be 1”-Schedule 40, it has an outside dia of 1.315”.



Before I installed the conduit, I would use a knife to smooth out the inside edge. I wanted to make sure there were no edges to hang-up the NMB cable. Now I’m not so sure it really made any difference, but it couldn’t hurt.



The service panel had three 1” knockouts. This should give me plenty of capacity for extra circuits.



It might look like I’m using a pull-string to get the 12-2 w/ground into the conduit, but actually I have pushed two cables of 12-2 w/ground up from the service panel with absolutely no problems. The pull-strings are for when things get harder, maybe I will need it for a third circuit in a single 1” conduit run. Although code might not allow this, not sure how many circuits 12-2 w/ground NMB I can put in one conduit run. Will try to figure this out later, if I ever need it.



This view is from the soffit, just on the other side of the service panel. When I replaced the soffits, I used screws instead of nails, makes it nice when you need to get in there again. Once I run conduit thru the top plate, then I glued the 90 degree elbow. I tried to keep it as close to the top plate as possible to minimize the total height.

Rick
Continued in next message.

 

[D.J.]

Well I was going to suggest not to cut through the top plate, but it looks like it's too late now!
________
Vaporite Vaporizer Instructions

 

[Indycars]

After the elbows were installed I continued with conduit towards the attic door.



I clamped the conduit to the last two rafters. Also numbered them to remove any doubt when tracing a circuit in the future. This picture was taken from just inside the attic door. Lots of room overhead here!!!



Just more labeling of the cable itself.



Running the very first circuit for my freezer. It used to be on a 6’ extension cord, but now it’s so happy to have its very own dedicated circuit. Per code it can be a single receptacle without GFI protection.



I couldn’t drill thru the top plate, there was not enough room above it for the Right-Angle-Drill adapter pictured below. Even thou it was 3-3/4” shorter than the Dewalt drill alone. I did figure out that there was a 1/16” sheet of something that I could pull away from the top plate and then insert the NMB cable. This turned out to be very easy to, no drilling required.





The right-angle drill adapter was only $26, for the price it did a good job. Better than $150 for a right-angle drill.

I’m very happy and its now very easy to pull new circuits anytime I need them. Well at least it’s easy getting to the service panel, the other end remains to be seen. Hope this helps someone, I know I've learned alot here!!!

Later,


Rick

 

[mrb]

good luck getting more NM through the conduit that already has it. Also be careful using poly line like that with NM already in the conduit -it will saw right through the insulation on the cable. I would have set a large junction box (12x18 or something) at the end of those conduits, and used thhn between the panel and the jbox.

 

[Indycars]

good luck getting more NM through the conduit that already has it. Also be careful using poly line like that with NM already in the conduit -it will saw right through the insulation on the cable. I would have set a large junction box (12x18 or something) at the end of those conduits, and used thhn between the panel and the jbox.

Is this what you are talking about???
http://www.carlon.com/Master Catalog/Fab Junction Box.pdf

Looks like you have to make your own holes, they don't have something similar to knockouts do they???

Rick

 

[mrb]

Is this what you are talking about???
http://www.carlon.com/Master Catalog/Fab Junction Box.pdf

Looks like you have to make your own holes, they don't have something similar to knockouts do they???

Rick

yeah. I prefer the metal ones (IMO plastic belongs in the ground) which are available with knockouts. Those, you just use a hole saw or spade bit.

 

[Big N8]

Looks like you got things taken care of.

Don't worry about the top plate you could take the entire thing out and not upset the stability of that wall (it is not load baring). In the future I would think about running stranded wire through the conduit instead of romex. That would give you more room for additional curciuts plus make it much easier to pull extras later.