Options to power external garage

[timevans]

I have a modular home powered by 200 amp meter base, 200 amp (one circuit) outdoor disconnect, feeding a 200 amp (16 space) breaker in the house. The breaker in the house is full. I would like to power my external garage with 100 amps. It seems that my options are:

1. Upgrade to 300 amp
2. Upgrade indoor breaker, add 100 amp breaker to feed garage
3. Add sub panel

It it possible to keep 200 amp meter, replace outdoor disconnect with a new one that has 200 amp circuit to house (indoor breaker) and 100 amp to garage? As long as I am not close to using the full load?

REMC wants $1600 for 400 amp service drop.

 

[pattenp]

First, do you know for sure you need a 100 amps at the garage? Can tandem breakers be used in the main panel? See if there is info on panel that says 16 space 32 circuit or something of the such.

 

[timevans]

Thank you for the reply. I cannot say for sure I need 100 amps. The building is 48 x 32. Off the top of my head I would need lights, 110 outlets, air compressor, table saw, power tools. I would like to get a welder at some point.

I have attached photos of the breaker box. It is 16 space / 30 circuit with a couple of tandems added already. I am not sure how many more I can swap and need to research / understand how they work.

Thanks again.

 

[R.Anderson]

It it possible to keep 200 amp meter, replace outdoor disconnect with a new one that has 200 amp circuit to house (indoor breaker) and 100 amp to garage? As long as I am not close to using the full load?

This is What I would do. 200a service with a 200a main, 200a to house and 100a or less to the garage. I think this can be done and legal code wise, anyone correct me if I am wrong.

I rarely pull over 100a for the house and no more than 50a for the garage and I weld and have a compressor run at the same time and no problems. Can't really use other power tools and weld at the same time.

Electric heat? four breakers marked funace 240v @ 30a and a 240 @ 60a whats the 240@30a for? Whats up with the AC having four breakers tied? Thats 6 spaces total for HVAC wow can some one explain this assuming what I see is correct

 

[patrickoneal]

This is What I would do. 200a service with a 200a main, 200a to house and 100a or less to the garage. I think this can be done and legal code wise code wise, anyone correct me if I am wrong.

I rarely pull over 100a for the house and no more than 50a for the garage and I weld and have a compressor run at the same time and no problems. Can't really use other power tools and weld at the same time.

Electric heat? four breakers marked funace 240v @ 30a and a 240 @ 60a whats the 240@30a for? Whats up with the AC having four breakers tied? Thats 6 spaces total for HVAC wow can some one explain this assuming what I see is correct

I think the "four tied together for HVAC" is actually the two middle handles tied together, and the two outside handles tied together. Probably one circuit for the outdoor unit, and one for the indoor.

Unless you've got a hell of a lot of electric baseboard heat or something, I agree with the above approach. If your existing meter is 200A, with wire good for 200A running to that tiny panel, I'd just replace the existing panel with a much larger panel with a 200A main, add a 2 pole 100 amp breaker and run from there to the garage. You probably won't need 100 amps out there, and I could never imagine needing more with what you stated.

 

[patrickoneal]

Also, if you stick with Siemens you could reuse a lot of those breakers and save a few dollars. I know some panels restrict the placement of those tandem(mini) breakers, so you'd have to factor that in. I'd probably just get full sized breakers to replace them anyway and reuse all the other full sized breakers.

They also sell panels in "Value Packs" that include a selection of breakers, so depending on what they come with, you may or may not save that much. Just make sure to get a 40 or 42 space panel and you'll probably never be in this situation again.

 

[timevans]

The two middle handles are for a lift station grinder pump (sewer). The two outter are for AC. Spaces 8, 10, 12, 14 are marked furnace. It seems like replacing the disconnect with multi-circuit would be least work but did not know if it would pass code?

 

[R.Anderson]

The two middle handles are for a lift station grinder pump (sewer). The two outter are for AC. Spaces 8, 10, 12, 14 are marked furnace. It seems like replacing the disconnect with multi-circuit would be least work but did not know if it would pass code?

Out of curiosity, what are you running for a furnace that requires a 240v@60a breaker and 240v@30a breaker?

 

[oldgoat]

When I built my garage I only had 85 amp service to the house so had them run 200 amp to the garage since it was real close to the pole and then split to 100 amp to the house and 100 amp to the garage. Only problem I've had is that I put all the outlets on each side to their own breaker. Since my woodworking tools are all on one wall you can hear it draw down some when I turn on other tools. Wish I would have used two breakers and alternated outlets between them.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a modular home powered by 200 amp meter base, 200 amp (one circuit) outdoor disconnect, feeding a 200 amp (16 space) breaker in the house. The breaker in the house is full. I would like to power my external garage with 100 amps. It seems that my options are:

1. Upgrade to 300 amp
2. Upgrade indoor breaker, add 100 amp breaker to feed garage
3. Add sub panel

It it possible to keep 200 amp meter, replace outdoor disconnect with a new one that has 200 amp circuit to house (indoor breaker) and 100 amp to garage? As long as I am not close to using the full load?

REMC wants $1600 for 400 amp service drop.

Your pic is blurry but it looks like you have a 200a panel. If thats the case, u cant just upgrade the indoor or outdoor breaker. You would have to upgrade the meter pedastal(unless rated for 400a), wire feeding your inside panel, and of course the inside panel, which is treated as a subpanel...

The proper thing to do is calculate your total load. That will tell u if u need to upgrade the service and if your current panel can handle the load.

You have an all electric house. With the dual electric heat, A/C, range, water heater AND dryer, u may be maxed out already...

Out of curiosity, what are you running for a furnace that requires a 240v@60a breaker and 240v@30a breaker?

If he has a heat pump, which is what it sounds like, then the 60a is probably for the condensor/heat pump and the 30a is for backup heat strips(often called emergency heat on thermastats) which are inside the air handler...He may also have a separate A/C unit...

OP how many air handlers do u have?

 

[Thumper68]

Do you have any pictures of your outside stuff.

My meter base (at the pole) had a second set of lugs to feed a extra panel, so we have 200 amps at the pole (exterior 200 amp 20 space outdoor panel) and 200 in the shop (200 amp panel in the shop).

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . also will help you get best GJ advice if you provide Location, as it plays significant part of what both house and garage will need for heat/AC.

Update GJ Profile with City/State/Country.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do you have any pictures of your outside stuff.

My meter base (at the pole) had a second set of lugs to feed a extra panel, so we have 200 amps at the pole (exterior 200 amp 20 space outdoor panel) and 200 in the shop (200 amp panel in the shop).

No that doesnt mean u have 400a.....

 

[pattenp]

Provided you aren't at the limits on your loads you can replace the 25A water heater with a 30A (assuming the wire is #10) and the range 40A using a Quadplex 30/40. That will free up 2 spaces so you can add a 2 pole breaker for the garage. Or replace the 30A furnace and the 40A range with a Quadplex 30/40. Depending on how long the run is to the garage #2 aluminum wire will get you up to 90A. You could start with a 60A breaker feeding the garage to see if it is enough power. The 60A breaker is cheap so no big loss if you need to push up to a larger breaker.

 

[sberry]

If I was looking to be thrifty would see what I could do to tap the existing service. I woulds consider several options if I was willing or needed to upgrade, sometimes this is due simply to replace old equipment as well as to serve any new demand but,,,,,,,,,,,
with some modest considerations to automatic loads like air comp a garage usually adds very little load demand and with the advent of the 200A mig welding is half the factor it was.
This discounts highly specialized equipment, heavy oven or 300A ****** tig etc but anything home/hobby/common consumer level really can be served by a number 10 wire without burning the place down and has max service connection of 50A.
BTW, a 30A water heater circuit is really 25A of actual load, 5500 watts, same for electric dryer and many air cond circuits pull half or less the breaker rating.

 

[sberry]

I took a unit from a mobile home park. A lot of them had them and a guy had to wonder how the whole place met service demand, I believe on that scale the demand factor was 23 maybe at the time, 25 tops as per pencil but the unit I took out, 30A service with 14A load.

 

[sberry]

I started this with the thought that I may be tempted to think out of the box with an upgrade, the location anfd topography would have a lot to do with it and an upgrade is the opportunity to move, replace, relocate, future engineer.
I don't always replace in the same location, did one for a bud recently where we moved it to the end of the house where it would never be added on, to the basement, closer to the service and closer to the demand than the original.
I go so far as putting a new 200 in the garage and feed back, don't even have to interrupt the service but for 10 minutes and the poco loves the hook/unhook in one shot.
Many are done with new along the old, I pay the fee for underground if possible and again, can be a one shot deal where the disconnect an old service drop and heat a new meter base all under one permit and inspection.
It used to be a steal, was 50 but now is about 160 for a permit.

 

[Kaizen]

two options. upgrade panel to bigger 200 amp panel and add two pole breaker going to garage or add a subpanel off that existing panel.
I ran a 2 pole 40amp breaker off my existing panel about 80 feet to my garage. put in a little 8 breaker panel. runs my 220 compressor, shop saw, lights and all I need no problem. even my 120 welder straight out doesn't dim the lights. IF there are 2 people working using several tools you will need more power.
either way looking at that existing panel I'd have a pro in there to dissect it. Never seen that many dual poles in that small of a box before.

 

[timevans]

Thanks for the replies. I have attached photos of meter, meter box, and disconnect. If remember correctly, the meter is not double lug.

I need to validate that space 8 and 10 are indeed used by furnace. I do know 12 and 14 is used by furnace blower. If I cannot use spaces 8 and 10, then I am leaning towards quadplex. I dont like the idea of filling up the small box like that.

 

[sberry]

Sheet, you have a disconnect, turn it off and wire anything you want beyond it. Put brandy new 200A 42 space and feed the garage from it. About a couple hrs interruption to tear all the old beyond the main.

 

[pattenp]

..... I dont like the idea of filling up the small box like that.

Filling up the panel with breakers in-it-self is not a problem. The issue is the total load being pulled through the panel. A 200A panel is a 200A panel no matter how many circuits you have, be it a 32 circuit panel or a 42 circuit panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If your load calc, including garage equipment, calcs under 200a, then i would replace the single disconnect with a dual disconnect...

 

[timevans]

If your load calc, including garage equipment, cals under 200a, then i would replace the single disconnect with a dual disconnect...

From what I have been seeing, most 200 amp boxes do not have dual taps. Do you have examples of a dual disconnect? I tried locating / searching but have not been successful.

 

[sberry]

Why replace any disconnect?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

From what I have been seeing, most 200 amp boxes do not have dual taps. Do you have examples of a dual disconnect? I tried locating / searching but have not been successful.

Not dual taps, dual disconnects. Essentially a 4 space breaker panel thats listed for use as service equipment. I have seen them but yes theyre hard to locate!

Did u do load calcs? This is the important first step. If u calc over 200a then u need to upgrade service, which negates the above idea!

Why replace any disconnect?

So he can have separate disconnects for house and garage!