If you have a sheet of OSB attached to your 16" on center studs, and you want to hang a heavy shelf or cabinets where the studs will not be present, will the OSB hold the screws or nails tightly enough to support the weight? Or, does it flake apart under stress like that?
OSB: Holds Nails Well?
- Thread starter Bull
- Start date
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
I have used it to support heavy objects with screws without problems as long as you have enough screws.
In my opinion better than sheet rock but nowhere near as good as plywood. I guess it depends on the weight of what you are putting on there. I'd hit studs if I were you
Hanging stuff up on OSB, half the reason I used it on the walls.
wbrian63
Well-known member
Couple of suggestions:
1) Use a small-ish pilot drill to begin with. When using screws with OSB, you're driving through all different sorts of wood and grain orientation. On occasion, I've seen the layers de-laminate as the screw hits something a bit hard on the way thru the sheet and stalls briefly - the screw continues to spin and the layers up to the point of the screw pull away from the layers below. Using a 1/16 or 3/32 pilot drill (assuming a #7 or #8 screw) will help combat this.
2) Consider using a french cleat to hang the cabinet. This is far easier than trying to hold the cabinet up wilst attaching it to the wall. Level the cleat, attach it firmly, then hang the cabinet on the cleat.
For the uninformed, a french cleat is a pair of boards, each with one edge cut at a 45 degree bevel. One board attaches to the wall, with the angle up and away from the wall. The other board attaches to the back of the cabinet, with the angle down and away from the cabinet. Very secure, and the cabinet can be removed and replaced easily if the need arises.
Regards
1) Use a small-ish pilot drill to begin with. When using screws with OSB, you're driving through all different sorts of wood and grain orientation. On occasion, I've seen the layers de-laminate as the screw hits something a bit hard on the way thru the sheet and stalls briefly - the screw continues to spin and the layers up to the point of the screw pull away from the layers below. Using a 1/16 or 3/32 pilot drill (assuming a #7 or #8 screw) will help combat this.
2) Consider using a french cleat to hang the cabinet. This is far easier than trying to hold the cabinet up wilst attaching it to the wall. Level the cleat, attach it firmly, then hang the cabinet on the cleat.
For the uninformed, a french cleat is a pair of boards, each with one edge cut at a 45 degree bevel. One board attaches to the wall, with the angle up and away from the wall. The other board attaches to the back of the cabinet, with the angle down and away from the cabinet. Very secure, and the cabinet can be removed and replaced easily if the need arises.
Regards
little d
Well-known member
bull, if ya got any dought, ya could use a togal bolt, ya know, the ones with wings that snap out when ya push them threw the hole.
1320stang
Well-known member
Ditto on the french cleat if it's a cabinet. If a shelf, take a 2x12 for the shelf bottom, screw a 1x12 to the back and use shelf brackets to keep them 90 degrees, then put french cleats on the back and hang it on the wall, top cleat even with top of shelf.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
I would rephrase that a little:
"Much better than sheet rock but not quite as well as plywood."
On a scale of 1-10 on holding power, 10 being best:
Stud == 10
1/2" plywood == 6
1/2" OSB == 5
1/2" sheetrock == 1
This is assuming only 1 screw per stud and the possibility of multiple screws in the other materials. Otherwise it comes down to 10/5/4/0.1.
Sheetrock is a fire rated cosmetic product and has no structural strength.
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onewaydave
Well-known member
Hey, it holds up most pictures pretty well. And does a darn good job of holding up paint in thin layers.
Seriously though. I'd give 10,6,4,1 on the scale above. If using nails, 10,4,2,1.
And to add to the equation, it depends on the thickness of the product.
Ditto on french cleats. Or, nail to the studs a nailer board horizontal and mount the item to that, it is only a shop, right?
Dave, ducking.
I'd go less on the OSB, I don't trust it much. Either way, screws in the studs is the way to go if the object weighs alot
Well, I was at HD yesterday pricing out various materials, and I see that 7/16 OSB is about the same price as 1/2 drywall. I'm not a huge fan of the texture that OSB is going to give me after I've painted it, or the fact that I will have naked seams. But, it is a barn and not a beauty parlor. I could always tape and mud the seams; one member on here did.
I bought 1x3 or 1x4 (can't recall) furring strips just now to go across my diagonal framing, which you can see in the pic below. I am going to place these strips 16 or so on center. I will record where on the wall they are, and so in the future when attaching heavier stuff to the wall I will have them to screw/nail into in addition to the studs (which might be tricky to hit because of the way they run.)
I am going to have to find some Google images and directions for these French cleats. It sounds pretty intriguing.
I bought 1x3 or 1x4 (can't recall) furring strips just now to go across my diagonal framing, which you can see in the pic below. I am going to place these strips 16 or so on center. I will record where on the wall they are, and so in the future when attaching heavier stuff to the wall I will have them to screw/nail into in addition to the studs (which might be tricky to hit because of the way they run.)
I am going to have to find some Google images and directions for these French cleats. It sounds pretty intriguing.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
I like to run french cleats all around a shop. Then mount all of the cabinets, pegboard, racks, etc on it. Then it is easy to re-arrange the shop or move that cabinet an inch to fit in some machine or tool. The height of a cabinet or rack can be changed just by moving the cleat on the back. 3/4" plywood or boards make great French cleats. Personally I would not use OSB or particle board for cleats.
I have used a lot of OSB on walls and it works well unless it has been exposed to a lot of water. Water swells the wood fibers and loosens the resin bonds.
For the rankings above with nails: 9/3/2/0.1
I have used a lot of OSB on walls and it works well unless it has been exposed to a lot of water. Water swells the wood fibers and loosens the resin bonds.
For the rankings above with nails: 9/3/2/0.1
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wbrian63
Well-known member
Look at post #34 in my Workshop/Garage thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60859&showall=1
This is what you'll face when painting OSB. What you see in those pictures is about 50% of what we ended up flaking off and re-priming. It literally takes as long to ferret out all the popped flakes, remove them and spot prime than it did to actually prime the wall in the first place...
Best look? How about OSB underneath 1/4" sheetrock?
1/2" plywood, at least in my part of the world, tends to be a really dicey proposition for wallboard. It tends to bow and cup between 24" studs in the most unpredictable fashion. OSB at least stays somewhat flatter, although we did have to put a 1x4 backer between each stud bay at the horizontal seams in the sheets. The OSB just gives too much across a 24" span...
Just my 2 cents.
Regards
This is what you'll face when painting OSB. What you see in those pictures is about 50% of what we ended up flaking off and re-priming. It literally takes as long to ferret out all the popped flakes, remove them and spot prime than it did to actually prime the wall in the first place...
Best look? How about OSB underneath 1/4" sheetrock?
1/2" plywood, at least in my part of the world, tends to be a really dicey proposition for wallboard. It tends to bow and cup between 24" studs in the most unpredictable fashion. OSB at least stays somewhat flatter, although we did have to put a 1x4 backer between each stud bay at the horizontal seams in the sheets. The OSB just gives too much across a 24" span...
Just my 2 cents.
Regards
thdewey
Well-known member
Either way French cleat or screwing it directly will be secure. I'd still at least put in 2 lag bolts into studs; one high and one low. Each cabinet should be over at least one stud. I made mine from 1" ply. That stuff is heavy. You'll probably store tools, fasteners, car parts, scrap metal etc in these and you don't want it to fall on someone or something valuable.
Something to consider, cabinets will be under sheer-stress and pull-stress. Screws will help keep the cabinet from pulling out, but the 'effective' thickness of a screw is a lot thinner that most people think. A lag bolt has a much larger shaft that is less likely to sheer.
Something to consider, cabinets will be under sheer-stress and pull-stress. Screws will help keep the cabinet from pulling out, but the 'effective' thickness of a screw is a lot thinner that most people think. A lag bolt has a much larger shaft that is less likely to sheer.
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Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Damn, I did not have any popped flakes in OSB but the last time I used it was about 10 years ago. They have probably cut the resin content to save a few cents. 
My God, that OSB painting experience seem like a true nightmare. I didn't read about that in the thread of the other guy; maybe I'd better go and read that thread and make sure he used OSB and not plywood.
I was set to go with OSB about one hour ago, now your thread has me leaning towards 1/2 or even 5/8 drywall.
I'm going to have to get some thick extension rings for my receptacles and switches. I set them for 3/4" wall material, but later realized I'd have to use furring strips then wall material.
I was set to go with OSB about one hour ago, now your thread has me leaning towards 1/2 or even 5/8 drywall.
I'm going to have to get some thick extension rings for my receptacles and switches. I set them for 3/4" wall material, but later realized I'd have to use furring strips then wall material.
rockchucker
Well-known member
Just curious...Why on Earth would you run Studs Diagonally? It takes all of the Structural Integrity out of everything a good wall should do. Sure I understand that the Header can support the Building without issue so that could just be open space. For all building purposes there really is no reason to run them that way. Even if you had some really fancy Fasad on the outside of the building it would be hard pressed to HAVE to run them that way. Really curious on this one.
I personally hate OSB for virtually everything. The Glue that is used fails over time. Regardless of whether or not it gets wet, the Glue fails. Years ago when they implemented it into building codes I was and still am in awe of the whole deal. I try to use Plywood wherever OSB is called for.
After years of stuff hanging on un-backed OSB the board will start to warp. The only way to stop this is to use Blocking. Lots of it. By the time you buy all of the extra wood for Blocking you may as well have used real Plywood.
The Idea of French Cleats is one of the best yet to hang Cabinets from/with. I also like the Mention of Lag Bolts with large washers on them for hanging Cabinets that are going to house heavy Items.
Or just run a solid 2x4 all of the way across the wall at the top and bottom line of the cabinet. Screw it to the Studs every 16" or 24" and you will be good to go. Then you will ALWAYS have something to Screw into when hanging Cabinets. You can also just run a Solid 2x4 across the bottom edge of the Cabinets so when you are hanging them you just set them up on the 2x4 then screw in the tops. You don't have to physically hold up the Cabinet while hanging it. The brunt of the weight is resting on that 2x4 ledge. Very strong and I will use that method when hanging a long run of Cabinets to get a nice and straight/level line. Of course removing the 2x4 after the installation. Or you could do it right and find the Studs then lay the cabinets out, mark them and pre-drill the holes where they meet the Studs. That is what I usually do in a Home for a very clean install. ALWAYS USE CABINET SCREWS WHEN HANGING CABINETS!!! Make sure they have a larger Head on the Screw designed to hold Cabinets. They should have a large Collar with a flat surface under the Head. I do not recommend using Countersunk Style Heads typically found on Deck Screws or Sheetrock Screws. Oh yes they will work and I have hung many cabinets with them but I just do not recommend them. Mostly due to the Cabinets being made out of complete **** these days. Funny to try and convince people in a remodel that their cabinets from the 30-50's are better than ANYTHING on the market today..."Oh we want new..." "OK Ma'am. As you wish." I will tear out this perfectly well structured Cabinet that you could put a Concrete Counter Top on without issue for this Brand New style of Cabinet. Oh yeah...If you want to install Concrete Counter-Tops it will be basically double for the Cabinets. Oh well, what are ya gonna do....
When Building/Remodeling I run 2x4 backing for all of my Handrails, Cabinets, TP Holders, Safety for Disabled Access Bathrooms, Backsplash, Pedestal Sinks, ETC. Takes a lot more Lumber but the finished product is so much better when you can hang your TP Holder one time then use it as a step to hang the Towel Rack. =)
Again this is just my opinion and .o2 on the matter. OSB ***** at holding Nails and ***** in general.
rockchucker
Well-known member
The reason OSB flakes after being painted is due to the moisture being introduced into the Water-Based Glue that they use to make it more ECO-friendly. Older OSB, waaaaay older, will not flake apart because they used some nasty non-ECO-friendly glue/resin back in the day.
So in a sense by painting OSB you are removing some of the Structural Integrity by helping it fail prematurely.
There is no way around moisture + OSB = FAIL.
So in a sense by painting OSB you are removing some of the Structural Integrity by helping it fail prematurely.
There is no way around moisture + OSB = FAIL.
Post and Beam, its a barn?
Whenever I post a picture of my framing, I await this question.
The diagonal framing is actually stronger than vertical framing here. It is a modified post and beam barn. The diagonal framing keeps the building from racking, and eliminates the need for any sheathing prior to installing the exterior shiplap siding. You can visit geobarns.com to see dozens of the structures. Here's mine:
bluesman2a
Well-known member
I used OSB in my shop, EXTENSIVELY, also recently as well.
I have 3 bays worth (1 10' high, one 15' high), and 2 ceilings worth of it. I like it better than drywall for shops, it takes abuse that would leave drywall broken. On 3 of the bays I used drywall screws to attach it, they work well, but are a PIYA. On the more recent work I've used ring-shank framing nails from a framing nailer, that goes a LOT faster, and seems to be at least as secure, but watch your wiring.
As for paintability, there are two sides to this story, I'll give you my experience:
1) whatever you do, get a 1.25" nap roller, this is the only thing that will reasonably get into all the nooks and crannies in the board.
2) On OSB there is a rough side (made to keep people from slipping off roofs) and a smooth/glued side. When doing my first 2 bays I put the rough side out. It worked out very well and would reduce any flaking as previously mentioned. But it soaks up a LOT of paint. On my machine shop, I hung it all with the smooth side out. Takes less paint, will allow for smoother surface when complete and I think it looks better when done. I have never seen flaking like the previous poster showed. I suspect that the paint/moisture had something to do with it. Don't let the smooth side of the OSB get/stay too wet.
3) For paint I used a single coat of Kilz2 latex primer laid on fairly thick. Let that dry out for several days/week. Followed this up with 2 coats of Olympic exterior latex. Did this over 3-5 days and it's been pretty darned hot too, so it's been baking. On everything I have I used a high-gloss paint so that when it gets dirty, it will wipe right off.
4) Seams: caulk can hide a multitude of sins. I just went and got a case of that cheap/white/paintable DAP/Alex caulk. It works well. Hides all the imperfections in the joints, use it much like you would drywall mud. use it to hide nail/screw holes too.
If you look at my build thread you can see how everything came out in the previous stages, the original bays have been up for 1-2 years now with no trouble and no signs of trouble in the future.
As for cabinets/weight, towards the end of my build thread you can see how I did my Gladiator wall cabinets. I have almost 2 walls full of them. I wouldn't recommend hanging significant weight on the OSB itself. I like to over-build stuff just in case, so when we put them up, I put 2X6 runners up at the top/bottom of the cabinets, secured to studs with 3" deck screws. The each cabinet is hung with 4 each 2" lag screws/washers into the 2x6. In addition to the cabinets, this also gives a nice/heavy duty way to hold other stuff, like hanging hooks, etc.
couple pics:
I have 3 bays worth (1 10' high, one 15' high), and 2 ceilings worth of it. I like it better than drywall for shops, it takes abuse that would leave drywall broken. On 3 of the bays I used drywall screws to attach it, they work well, but are a PIYA. On the more recent work I've used ring-shank framing nails from a framing nailer, that goes a LOT faster, and seems to be at least as secure, but watch your wiring.
As for paintability, there are two sides to this story, I'll give you my experience:
1) whatever you do, get a 1.25" nap roller, this is the only thing that will reasonably get into all the nooks and crannies in the board.
2) On OSB there is a rough side (made to keep people from slipping off roofs) and a smooth/glued side. When doing my first 2 bays I put the rough side out. It worked out very well and would reduce any flaking as previously mentioned. But it soaks up a LOT of paint. On my machine shop, I hung it all with the smooth side out. Takes less paint, will allow for smoother surface when complete and I think it looks better when done. I have never seen flaking like the previous poster showed. I suspect that the paint/moisture had something to do with it. Don't let the smooth side of the OSB get/stay too wet.
3) For paint I used a single coat of Kilz2 latex primer laid on fairly thick. Let that dry out for several days/week. Followed this up with 2 coats of Olympic exterior latex. Did this over 3-5 days and it's been pretty darned hot too, so it's been baking. On everything I have I used a high-gloss paint so that when it gets dirty, it will wipe right off.
4) Seams: caulk can hide a multitude of sins. I just went and got a case of that cheap/white/paintable DAP/Alex caulk. It works well. Hides all the imperfections in the joints, use it much like you would drywall mud. use it to hide nail/screw holes too.
If you look at my build thread you can see how everything came out in the previous stages, the original bays have been up for 1-2 years now with no trouble and no signs of trouble in the future.
As for cabinets/weight, towards the end of my build thread you can see how I did my Gladiator wall cabinets. I have almost 2 walls full of them. I wouldn't recommend hanging significant weight on the OSB itself. I like to over-build stuff just in case, so when we put them up, I put 2X6 runners up at the top/bottom of the cabinets, secured to studs with 3" deck screws. The each cabinet is hung with 4 each 2" lag screws/washers into the 2x6. In addition to the cabinets, this also gives a nice/heavy duty way to hold other stuff, like hanging hooks, etc.
couple pics:
wbrian63
Well-known member
Agreed. One thing I noticed is that if I paint quicker, I get less flaking. Before, I was trying to even out the coat of sealer/primer and so I was more finicky about blending each roller application.
There are also flakes on the sheets that are already delaminated before I start painting. You can hear them as the roller passes over them - makes a hollow sound. Within a few minutes, those flakes are standing proud of the surface. Add to that those areas that delaminate as a result of the added moisture and you've got a real mess.
On a whim, I tried just "slappin' it up there" and I got fewer pops. There is noticeable "tiger striping" where the layers of paint overlap, but on the test wall, once I put 2 coats of quality semi-gloss white on top, the striping wasn't visible at all. It's so damn hot right now, as long as you don't keep re-wetting the surface while attempting to blend the layers, the primer dries to the touch in about 10 minutes.
With the surge in pricing of OSB during that part of the project, I could have used 1/2" BCX plywood for the same cost (if I'd bought all 100 sheets at once - the BCX prices increased at the same time as the OSB, but not to the same obnoxious degree).
I'll never use OSB again...
d110pickup
Well-known member
I used OSB for the interior of my shop and haven't had any problems with the paint. I hung it smooth side out, caulked the seams, and applied a coupla coats of Valspar Duramax exterior latex paint.
I completed the painting last fall.
Mike
I completed the painting last fall.
Mike
I used Kilz oil based primer and latex paint on mine. I painted last winter and haven't seen a snow storm of flakes
You can check out the painting of mine here
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=959380#post959380
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Rockerbox1
Well-known member
I used Kilz oil based primer and latex paint on mine. I painted last winter and haven't seen a snow storm of flakes
You can check out the painting of mine here
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=959380#post959380
used Zinser primer (oil) and then latex paint on the osb in my old shop, did just fine as well
granted you can see the texture, but who cares, it's a shop, not a den
MScott
Well-known member
All OSB is not the same. I purchased some a few years ago that was absolute garbage. I think it might have been subjected to moisture before I bought it, as it just went to pieces. I had to scrap the project I was working on an replace it with new OSB. Had no problem with the replacement.
wbrian63
Well-known member
I suspect my experience would have been more positive if I'd used oil-base instead of water-base primer.
However, my experience with Kilz oil-base is that the fumes can be strong. With the heat we've got here, I wasn't wanting that experience to be magnified by the heat.
I'm thinking now that a little fumes would have been better, maybe...
However, my experience with Kilz oil-base is that the fumes can be strong. With the heat we've got here, I wasn't wanting that experience to be magnified by the heat.
I'm thinking now that a little fumes would have been better, maybe...
^^^Exactly the reason we painted rather than replaced our 1960 cabinets, which are made with cabinet grade plywood and not particleboard with veneer.
1320stang
Well-known member
What about spraying it instead?
Man, painting OSB looks like a bear.
If one does want OSB my inclination would be to either sheath it in a thin GWB or stain, whitewash, or clear coat it.
I think if you try and cover it with an opaque paint that completely hides all the multitude of wood chips you'll be left with an odd texture where overhead lights will grealty emphasis the wood chip texture of the OSB. And they'll stand out much more because solid body paints are that much more uniform.
By staining, or white washing (a type of diluted paint) you still see the paint chips through the color which helps make the wood chip texture less noticable. And of course a clearcoat would gloss it up slightly and give it a bit more finished look but not add any color. The stain / whitewash / clear coat options I think will turn out best vs paint (with the least effort) but of course they won't really lighten things up much (except maybe a whitewash). It all depends on the aesthetic you're looking for.
Here in Seattle at REI's flagship downtown store the have OSB up all over the place as a finished wall material. But it is stained all sorts of different colors from green and blue and red and such. Very cool. The joints between the OSB are highlighted with a 1/2" x 1" piece of wood that is fit between the panels.
If one does want OSB my inclination would be to either sheath it in a thin GWB or stain, whitewash, or clear coat it.
I think if you try and cover it with an opaque paint that completely hides all the multitude of wood chips you'll be left with an odd texture where overhead lights will grealty emphasis the wood chip texture of the OSB. And they'll stand out much more because solid body paints are that much more uniform.
By staining, or white washing (a type of diluted paint) you still see the paint chips through the color which helps make the wood chip texture less noticable. And of course a clearcoat would gloss it up slightly and give it a bit more finished look but not add any color. The stain / whitewash / clear coat options I think will turn out best vs paint (with the least effort) but of course they won't really lighten things up much (except maybe a whitewash). It all depends on the aesthetic you're looking for.
Here in Seattle at REI's flagship downtown store the have OSB up all over the place as a finished wall material. But it is stained all sorts of different colors from green and blue and red and such. Very cool. The joints between the OSB are highlighted with a 1/2" x 1" piece of wood that is fit between the panels.
rockchucker
Well-known member
I could see it for Shiplap siding for sure but most buildings that I have done that on are Pole Buildings that the Braces run Horizontally anyways. Makes sense.
Whenever I post a picture of my framing, I await this question.
The diagonal framing is actually stronger than vertical framing here. It is a modified post and beam barn. The diagonal framing keeps the building from racking, and eliminates the need for any sheathing prior to installing the exterior shiplap siding. You can visit geobarns.com to see dozens of the structures. Here's mine:
Beautiful Structure you have there Sir! Good show!
Could very well help but I have also noticed that the mere drying of the paint will cause the surface of the "chips" in the OSB to shrink causing the rest of the chip to peel away. Almost like trying to finish a thinner plywood or Veneer before installation. It warps pretty bad.
When the OSB craze started in and Siding was being manufactured out of it I would always insist to the owner on Back-Priming the Siding before installation. Even this would make it twist a little funny.
100%. Different manufacturers use different methods. Some are made in China and the others...well you know the rest.
Very good choice. =)
Even worse. Sprayers can really throw down some paint. Especially with how much yo would have to throw down to get a good coat with all of the cracks and crevices.
Thickest Nap Roller Cover you can find and try not to let it dry in the sun or super fast.
Just my .o2
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
OSB may be a PITA to paint but it sure beats taping, mudding, finishing, and painting sheet rock and it is MUCH stronger.
Right now, I'm on the fence. Sort of leaning towards 5/8 rock, since it offers some fire protection and is thick enough that it wont break if you bump it. The furring strips I put up today are every 12" on center, and are 3.5" wide. So, there will be a lot of support behind the rock...should take a pretty solid blow to break it. Plus, with the large furring strips, I have plenty to nail into for hanging shelves, cabinets etc.
I do hate taping and mudding and sanding drywall, but since I'm only doing one wall at a time, it shouldn't feel like torture.
But I haven't quite ruled OSB out, yet.
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Well, if the buzzer hasn't sounded, here's a vote for OSB. It holds nails like plywood and you'll never find yourself patching a hole you knocked in it with a length of pipe.
You could run floor-to-ceiling vertical strips (2" wide, 1/4" thick -- think lengthwise-ripped 2x4s -- cheap) along the seams and then also every 16" and it will look like exterior siding in there. The texture of the OSB will work in your favor, and you won't ever have to sand or fill anything.
You could run floor-to-ceiling vertical strips (2" wide, 1/4" thick -- think lengthwise-ripped 2x4s -- cheap) along the seams and then also every 16" and it will look like exterior siding in there. The texture of the OSB will work in your favor, and you won't ever have to sand or fill anything.
Ugh. My eyes hurt they're so tired. There is a lot to read on this subject on the net and the archives here. Still can't make up my mind.
Going to be thinking about the fire resistance of 5/8 rock, though. That detail is stuck in my mind.
Going to be thinking about the fire resistance of 5/8 rock, though. That detail is stuck in my mind.