Oscilloscope reccomendations

[Sommech7498]

Hey guys I need help picking out an oscilloscope. I work on forklifts and other industrial equipment so I'm looking more for a dedicated scope instead of a scope and scantool . I'll primarily use it for testing ignition coils and injectors and some various sensors so I think a 2 Chanel would be plenty. I'd like it to be pc based and resonably priced. Maybe 3-500 tops. What do you guys recommend?

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I wish they weren't all so damn expensive. Especially the better ones.

 

[APEowner]

I don't have a PC based recommendation. We have a half dozen Rigol scopes where I work. They're reliable, accurate, relatively inexpensive and durable. We have a couple of high dollar Tecthronix scopes for when we need high speed, extreme accuracy or sophisticated triggering or outputs but for daily and field use the Rigols are our go-to tools.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't have a PC based recommendation. We have a half dozen Rigol scopes where I work. They're reliable, accurate, relatively inexpensive and durable.

The price on some of those Rigol scopes is AMAZING ! These are bench 'scopes. No battery option and they would not survive a 3' drop !!

 

[Bobioz1]

Check out the Uscope at AES.com. It's not pc based but it works well and the price is right.

 

[APEowner]

The price on some of those Rigol scopes is AMAZING ! These are bench 'scopes. No battery option and they would not survive a 3' drop !!

The lack of battery option is an issue but I've dropped them more than 3' more than once and we don't have any that don't work. Some of them look like heck but they still work. They all work better than the Fluke 190 Series IIs that we originally bought for field work and we can destroy about 10 of the Rigols before we reach the cost of one Fluke.

 

[Schurkey]

Snap-On MT3000 or MT3000A Counselor II. Ancient and cheap. 3000A slightly preferred.

Already set-up for automotive work. Will interface with an MT2500 scan tool, but does not do scan tool functions by itself. Will do cylinder shorting, ignition patterns, burn time, amperage waveform, vacuum waveform, etc.

Get it with as many accessories as you can. The exhaust analyzer is nice, but they always fail the self-test until you install a fresh O2 sensor, and those are expensive.

Ignition waveform

 

[Sommech7498]

Thanks for the reccomendations guys. I'm considering the 4 channel 50 MHz . Anybody else have any reccomendations?

 

[APEowner]

Snap-On MT3000 or MT3000A Counselor II. Ancient and cheap. 3000A slightly preferred.

Already set-up for automotive work. Will interface with an MT2500 scan tool, but does not do scan tool functions by itself. Will do cylinder shorting, ignition patterns, burn time, amperage waveform, vacuum waveform, etc.

Get it with as many accessories as you can. The exhaust analyzer is nice, but they always fail the self-test until you install a fresh O2 sensor, and those are expensive.

Ignition waveform

I've looked at these when the come up for sale on Craigslist. Does Snap-On still support them for calibration and repair?

 

[dclassical]

Thanks for the reccomendations guys. I'm considering the 4 channel 50 MHz . Anybody else have any reccomendations?

If you are talking about the Rigol it used to be that you could upgrade to 100MHz. I am not sure if the new software version prevents it.

All the electronic filters support the higher bandwidth, they just sell software keys to enable them.

Though 50MHz is already a lot for most applications.

 

[swedish_chef]

Thanks for the reccomendations guys. I'm considering the 4 channel 50 MHz . Anybody else have any reccomendations?

Second the Rigol recommendation. I have a Rigol DS1054Z purchased from Tequipment.NET. Link: http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/ If you search around they usually have some discount codes that will bring the price down (or you can probably online chat with them to see if they have any discount codes).

Also, as someone mentioned with some tinkering you can (unless they have changed something) turn it into a DS1104Z which is a 100Mhz 4 channel scope, which is a pretty good deal at that price.

 

[Schurkey]

I've looked at these when the come up for sale on Craigslist. Does Snap-On still support them for calibration and repair?

No. At least, I don't think so. They're long discontinued, although some accessories interchange with the newer, hand-held 'scopes, so a very few pieces may still be available.

The MT1665 Counselor and MT1765 Counselor XL are older, have a bit less functionality--but still make a great "automotive hobby" 'scope.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Snap-On-Counselor-oscilloscopes-A-Primer-/10000000001691487/g.html

 

[theoldwizard1]

Check out the Uscope at AES.com. It's not pc based but it works well and the price is right.

$500 for the kit ? Not that good of a price for a single channel mini 'scope.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The lack of battery option is an issue ...

I am surprised that someone has not figured out how to swap the AC power supply out for a DC/battery one !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thanks for the reccomendations guys. I'm considering the 4 channel 50 MHz . Anybody else have any reccomendations?

Definitely have to look hard at Rigol !

 

[turfgnome]

I personally have 2 tecktronics scopes, but would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6022BL-PC-D...sed-USB-Logic-Analyzer-16-CH-US-/152001146196

 

[R.Anderson]

I personally have 2 tecktronics scopes, but would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6022BL-PC-D...sed-USB-Logic-Analyzer-16-CH-US-/152001146196

Tektronix

 

[turfgnome]

Sorry i thought that it what i had typed.... I have a tbs 12028 scope I was given that I use. And a really old working analog one I keep around becouse I do not know anyone who could even use it around here.

 

[bcradio]

I agree with the rigol scopes... that is what i would get myself if i were in the market.

 

[R.Anderson]

Sorry i thought that it what i had typed.... I have a tbs 12028 scope I was given that I use. And a really old working analog one I keep around becouse I do not know anyone who could even use it around here.

tbs 12028 ? guessing a TBS1202B, what analog Textronix scope you have?

The analog ones sell on ebay and FedEx sells the perfect size box to ship em. I sold a few scopes I refurbished and calibrated and have 10 or 11 Tektronix 2215 60MHz scopes left to refurbish and calibrate (component level, up) and sell. Out of my collection my favorite are Hitachi. My collection so far contains three Hitachi scopes V-660 60MHz, VC-6025 50MHz, V-1100A 100MHz, two Tektronix scopes 2215 60Mhz and a 2445A 150MHz, and a Hewlett Packard (now Agilent) 1662CS Logic analyzer/Oscilloscope 250MHz, 64 data channels. Those are just my oscilloscopes in my shop and or in storage now, in the process of building a new house/garage/shop and selling our current one.

Definitely have to look hard at Rigol !

Curious as if you have Rigol to say this or thinking of getting one and do you know how to use the multi-quote button ?

 

[Bobioz1]

$500 for the kit ? Not that good of a price for a single channel mini 'scope.

$399 for the master kit and it comes with a low amp current probe and secondary ignition capability. Just the scope with test leads cost $154.00.

 

[turfgnome]

tbs 12028 ? guessing a TBS1202B, what analog Textronix scope you have?

The analog ones sell on ebay and FedEx sells the perfect size box to ship em. I sold a few scopes I refurbished and calibrated and have 10 or 11 Tektronix 2215 60MHz scopes left to refurbish and calibrate (component level, up) and sell. Out of my collection my favorite are Hitachi. My collection so far contains three Hitachi scopes V-660 60MHz, VC-6025 50MHz, V-1100A 100MHz, two Tektronix scopes 2215 60Mhz and a 2445A 150MHz, and a Hewlett Packard (now Agilent) 1662CS Logic analyzer/Oscilloscope 250MHz, 64 data channels. Those are just my oscilloscopes in my shop and or in storage now, in the process of building a new house/garage/shop and selling our current one.



Curious as if you have Rigol to say this or thinking of getting one and do you know how to use the multi-quote button ?

I am not sure of the analog model number, I have not even used the good scope enough to justify it other then it was a prize for an electronics contest I did in the off season. They do come in handy for component testing when you need one but not something the average guy needs in a garage.

 

[Bruce Amacker]

Picoscope is one of the industry's leaders. PC based, fast as hell, lots of presets, reasonably priced. I've had 3 and love them, even my old 3423 4 channel.

 

[Bobioz1]

Agree with the Picoscope recommendation but the O.P.s budget was between 3 to 5 hundred. My 3523 doesn't feel old at all.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Picoscope is one of the industry's leaders.

Picoscope and others have been "resting on their laurels" for too long ! Their products are based on 10+ year old technology which is why they cost so much.

 

[Bobioz1]

What improvements on that 10+ year old technology would you like to see?

 

[TomB19]

For those interested in the Rigol DS1054Z, or any Rigol product:

Go to www.eevblog.com forums, register, and post that you are looking for a discount code in this thread:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-members-discount-at-tequipment/

With discount, the cheap DS1054Z gets even cheaper.

The DS1054Z can still be hacked to 100Mhz. The extra bandwidth is all but irrelevant, IMO. If you need a scope that can display 100MHz signals accurately, the DS1104Z is not a good choice.

I also wanted to test the serial decode function that is available with the software hack. It was extremely unimpressive. It will only decode the time slice being displayed so it's a ton of work to do a full decode on a serial stream. A $35 Bus Pirate is a dream for serial sniffing, compared to using the scope.

At least for my uses, hacking the scope for features and bandwidth was a waste of time but it's cool to know it's not hobbled by some security feature. I've done tons of stuff with it but it does have weaknesses. It's not the best triggering system and the UI could be better but it's still a really good and highly useful instrument.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What improvements on that 10+ year old technology would you like to see?

There are better (cheaper/faster) A-to-D converters available. The big win is use FPGAs to interface the A-to-D to what ever processor that is being used.

Speaking of which, I'll bet some of those are still using 16 bit processors. There are 32 and 64 DSP available now a day for very low cost. Same with memory. And displays.

No need for a PC except for "offline" storage !

Watch at least part of this video EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown

 

[theoldwizard1]

All "low end" scopes use an 8 bit A-to-D converter. I sure would like to see Rigol go to 10 or even 12 bits !

 

[Bobioz1]

Watched the first 10 minutes of your video, riveting stuff. Enjoyed the mandatory Utube commercial more. The Rigol scope is not directed at the automotive (or forklift) repair world nor does it appear it would survive it. My Picoscope (and other automotive scopes) helps me make money almost everyday. A PC is already required so no extra cost is added to the scope. In the automotive world Pico is the undisputed king of scopes.

 

[dclassical]

I think you are right and when I commented I did it from the point of view of a DIY (who actually loves working on PCB more than on cars), in which case the pico does not make much sense.

I still don't really understand how they charge so much for specs that are not that great (unless you get into their top of the line), but they did find the right market for it.

 

[khp]

I have a uscope and I love it. I had leads and amp clamps from my old scope so I bought the base uscope model. It is quick to pull out and check a sensor. I have a picoscope 2 ch that works great too but for ease of use I use the uscope the most.

 

[neuralsnafu]

Ive got a hantek 1008c usb/pc based o-scope. Seems to run fine, less than 100$ on amazon, i think with all the probes and things i got from amazon, less than 400 all in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[sdleo26]

I just picked up this Snap-on MT 1665 for $160; everything works, I like tinkering and it brings me back to my tech days.

 

[Skin]

Picoscope and others have been "resting on their laurels" for too long ! Their products are based on 10+ year old technology which is why they cost so much.

Accessories and support is also excellent plus the cost includes the software and any updates (technically "free"). There is a lot more to the pico than just the plastic box that makes it a excellent scope.

 

[CarScope Viso]

You can take a look on our CarScope Viso automotive oscilloscope here:
www.autoditex.com/carscope-viso-61.html

Training videos are available here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDtFMRZicQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ZLcmJ4n0o
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYg8ucCUOs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDY8hWw8MBU

Also you can try fully free our CarScope Viso Windows application that simulate almost fully all main functions:
www.autoditex.com/cms/user/files/DOWNLOAD/viso-demo-102.rar

Best regards,
CarScope Viso team.

 

[jerseykat1]

You can take a look on our CarScope Viso automotive oscilloscope here:
www.autoditex.com/carscope-viso-61.html

Training videos are available here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDtFMRZicQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ZLcmJ4n0o
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYg8ucCUOs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDY8hWw8MBU

Also you can try fully free our CarScope Viso Windows application that simulate almost fully all main functions:
www.autoditex.com/cms/user/files/DOWNLOAD/viso-demo-102.rar

Best regards,
CarScope Viso team.

I sent you a private message with some questions about your oscilloscope. Let me know if you are not able to respond because you are too new to the forum.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You can take a look on our CarScope Viso automotive oscilloscope here:
www.autoditex.com/carscope-viso-61.html

Your concept is great ! Your execution leaves a lot to be desired.

You need a higher bandwidth, higher sample rate and deeper memory. 800x480 7" display ? Let's get real ! The Amazon Fire 7 has a 7" IPS touchscreen, 1024 x 600 and it is less than $50. The Fire 8" is 1280 x 800 and less than $70.


Personally, I don't know how any one can build a handheld device to compete with those prices, so why fight it ? Yes the computational power on those devices is pretty low, but there are other tablets that are faster.


Disappointed in you CarScopPlus. 4 channels is good, 2 MHz bandwidth and 25Ms/sec with an 8 bit ADC is pretty whimpy. At least you are not dividing up the memory between the channels is use. Lots of room for improvement.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am surprised that someone has not figured out how to swap the AC power supply out for a DC/battery one !

I have not personally tied this, but others on the Internet have with success.

Any electronic device that uses a AC switching power supply (which is pretty much every electronic device out there) can run on high voltage DC ! The voltage is dependent upon the power supply but typically between 60-80VDC.

If you are an electronics person it will only take a second to figure this out. To the non -electronics person, the first thing a switching power supply does is convert AC to high voltage DC via a full wave bridge rectifier. The rectifier is using DC input so it just has less work to do.

10 - 9V batteries will work, but not for very long ! The cost of Li-Ion 18650 cells is getting cheaper every day. Just make up some 6 cell packs, hook them together in series and you in business !

 

[CarScope Viso]

Your concept is great ! Your execution leaves a lot to be desired.

You need a higher bandwidth, higher sample rate and deeper memory. 800x480 7" display ? Let's get real ! The Amazon Fire 7 has a 7" IPS touchscreen, 1024 x 600 and it is less than $50. The Fire 8" is 1280 x 800 and less than $70.

Personally, I don't know how any one can build a handheld device to compete with those prices, so why fight it ? Yes the computational power on those devices is pretty low, but there are other tablets that are faster.

CarsScope Viso really looks like as tablet but it is also very robust and reliable automotive diagnostic oscilloscope. In any case it is not correctly to compare two completely different devices only because they have а display.