OT - Drywall types for bathroom remodel.?

[Killer95Stang]

Not exactly garage related, unless you plan on adding a full bath to the garage

Maybe someone can give me a few suggestions..

House is located in mild tempered CA.

I'm at the beginning phase of a full bathroom remodel, that included removing everything down to the studs. The bathroom itself is 7' x 12', which includes a small shower. I plan on replacing the current loud ceiling ventilation fan, in favor of a slightly oversized Panasonic super quiet unit. Even with a good ventilation system, I figure moisture will still be a problem. I currently see condensation on the ceiling, windows and mirrors on cold days (hot showers).

My questions are..

-Should I drywall the entire bathroom in a moisture resistant drywall, including the ceiling?

-Which drywall type should I use; Green, purple or the new yellow?

-Do I need the plastic vapor barrier between the drywall and insulation?

-I plan on putting floor to ceiling glass tiles on the back wall of the bathroom, behind the toilet and sink. Should I use Hardie board for this, or will regular paper backed type drywall be okay?


I had no problems drywalling my garage, but I didn't have to worry about so many drywall choices.

Thanks..

 

[irishtom]

I would use a moisture resistant drywall on all wall and ceiling surfaces, with a vapor barrier between drywall and the insulation. Where is the vapor barrier, if there is one, on the exterior walls of your house? You do not want barriers on both the outside and inside faces.

In the shower/tub, use a cement board, also with a vapor barrier behind. Cement board is porous and some moisture can always make it's way thru mortar and board. I've never used hardie board or other alternates at wet areas. Only cement board (aka TBB, tile backer board).

Are you redoing the shower base?

When you install the glass tiles, I suggest you use a white mortar. Not gray. And an unsanded grout if they're small tiles.

 

[Killer95Stang]

I would use a moisture resistant drywall on all wall and ceiling surfaces, with a vapor barrier between drywall and the insulation. Where is the vapor barrier, if there is one, on the exterior walls of your house? You do not want barriers on both the outside and inside faces.

In the shower/tub, use a cement board, also with a vapor barrier behind. Cement board is porous and some moisture can always make it's way thru mortar and board. I've never used hardie board or other alternates at wet areas. Only cement board (aka TBB, tile backer board).

Are you redoing the shower base?

When you install the glass tiles, I suggest you use a white mortar. Not gray. And an unsanded grout if they're small tiles.

House was built in 1961 and at least here in CA they did not believe in insulation back then. This past year I had the entire house insulated with the blown type insulation that they had to drill through the stucco to install. They also re-insulated the attic up to R-38 value. So far it has made a world of difference, with my gas bills down to 1/3rd and the electric bill cut in half (no joke). Add the Gas Co rebate and Obama's tax write off and It will have paid for itself in less than a year. So the answer.. my house has no vapor barriers at the moment.

Gotcha on the white mortar... read about that already.

Bathroom has no tub in it, so its just a free standing fully tiled shower stall. Since a leaky pan was the spring board to this whole remodel, I'm planning on having an expert rebuild the pan and install the glass tile in the shower. I need this done perfect, so I would rather pay a little now, than be pissed when I screwed up.

The back wall is separated from the shower by 7 ft, and the minimal water it will see is from an occasional splash when I brush my teeth. Do I really need to install cement board to put up the equivalent of a kitchen backsplash?

Here's a pretty close example of what type of tile and how the bathroom will look.

 

[neverenoughtools]

I used these products on top of cement board a couple of years ago cause you only have one chance to do it right ! Www.schluter.com

 

[acer66]

I used these products on top of cement board a couple of years ago cause you only have one chance to do it right ! Www.schluter.com

Do you like the Schluter stuff?

 

[Killer95Stang]

I used these products on top of cement board a couple of years ago cause you only have one chance to do it right ! Www.schluter.com

I called around looking for someone that used the Kerdi Schluter method for shower walls / pans and not one person (tile installer / tile shop) knew what I was talking about.

It looks like a good system, but unless I can get Mike Holmes to start filming his show in California, I doubt I'll have anyone here who can use this system cost effectively.

 

[irishtom]

Do I really need to install cement board to put up the equivalent of a kitchen backsplash?

No, probably just the shower. Talk to your plumber about how he's going to install the shower pan. PVC liner and mud set, or pre-fab pan. So that you know how tie in the pan liner with the vapor barrier.

Add photos as you demo/build/finish. Your project isn't strictly garage related, but some on this forum probably want to add showers to their projects.

Check out sites like 'This Old House' for other how-to information.

 

[rickairmedic]

I used Hardi backer behind /around the shower everything else got greenboard . Walls and ceiling. Floor got 3/4" plywood then 1/2" hardi backer then tiles.


Rick

 

[mdbeck1]

I just got through (well almost.. still lack one closet) with a bathroom remodel. All of the bathroom sheetrock was green (moisture resistant). The bottom half of the walls is Hardi Board even behind the vanity. It was tiled over. I didn't think to put vapor barrier in until after the sheetrock was up and textured. Oh well, the original didn't have it either.

We lined the shower with a synthetic marble material. The shower pan was a standard preset size made of a similar material (the vinyl pans just seemed to flimsy). The result is that the only joints in the shower are where the large panels come together.

 

[Kevin54]

For a bathroom, I wouldn't put up a moisture barrier between the ;rock and walls all for the fact that if you do, it will really act like a terrarium. I would put a good exhaust fan in to draw out the most moisture that you can when using the shower and let it run for a little while afterwards or get one on a timer.

 

[7echo]

Dens Armor Plus for the walls. All the tile answers are at...

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/

Schluter is here...

http://www.schluter.com/

Not sure about the vapor barrier, but search on journal of light construction and building science.

 

[Killer95Stang]

Thanks for the link...

 

[Painter123]

I woud stay away from dura rock it's old school (There are many new products not sold at the box stores that work way better) and like some have said it's porous so it does let water/vapor through it

In the shower I just did I used Dens sheild it's water proof and way way easier to install and it was 8$ a sheet cheaper vers dura rock (4x8 sheets)

and then if moisture is still a consern in the rest of the bathroom/ceiling use the Dens armor plus for the space

Tile will stick to the Dens armor plus no problem

 

[DeadSock]

I'm a little confused. You say you're going to gut it to the studs ... Does that include the shower?

If so find a contractor you can work with. Many of the better tile/stone ones also have experience with glass block. They are also going to probably do a much better longer lasting job than you can ...

Here's a recent experience I've had ...

I had a downstairs bath todo in a remodel in-progress of a foreclosure we purchased recently. I budgeted $2000 for the room (fiberglass surround, toilet, vanity, tile floor (w/ heatmat), shower head, repair$$, and misc). Laying floor tile is pretty easy, and the rest I was comfortable DIY.

After gutting it, I realized a window meant that a "standard" 32x60 wasn't going to fit where the old tub had been (was 32" on the wet wall, but only 30" to the window). I could order a 30x60 surround (for about $500 more ).

While the "tile & stone" guy was in for the final of the granite kitchen countertop, I chatted with him about the bath.

He gave me a quote on: tile for the floor (electric heat mat under), shower (mudded base, tile to the ceiling), and half up the other walls. The window was also "wrapped" in tile. This was actually around 400 sqft of tile with lots of trim/corner pieces.

When he came back with the quote, I was pleasantly surprised because the "fully installed" price wasn't to bad. With the downturn, he had a warehouse of "stock" that used to go into the higher end "spec" homes. Anything in that warehouse was "at cost" since he wanted to get a smaller space and needed to reduce inventory. Because we had a smallish room, that gave us lots of choices of his "stock" (all fairly "neutral" since that's what goes into spec homes). We could have even gone with a marble (for more $$$), but settled on a 6x12 wall and 12x12 floor tile (that he had quoted).

All I had to do was the plumbing, some rotted sub-floor repair, and sheetrock. They gave me the guidance to get the floor drain set properly, the necessary "thickness" in order to get the shower valve located properly, and what material/level of finish for the walls ("blueboard with embedded tape for walls", ceiling I finished to a level 4).

I was done with my part in a week (evenings and a weekend). They then came in one afternoon to get the mud base in, the next day to put down a liner and concrete over the liner and wire screed on the walls, tile guy was next for about 2 full days.

I still "blew the budget" on the bath (came in around $3500). Then again, is a MUCH higher quality and finished in about 1/3 the time it would have taken to DIY. This is a case where I truly feel I got what I paid for. Actually was a win-win, I probably got more that I paid for and the contractor got rid of stock, got paid without a wait, and was able to fill his workers for a day/week while things are slow.

Rob

 

[neverenoughtools]

Good call on your part. ,

 

[gesoffen]

Regular drywall is good enough for tiling in dry areas (toilet/sink areas). If water gets through the grout/under the tile, no matter what kind of drywall you have, the wall is likely ruined. There's no structural magic about greenboard/blueboard etc. they'll still fall apart when exposed to water. However, some of the paper faces have mold resistant properties that might be useful in certain areas of the bath.

As stated before, vapor barrier goes between the sheet rock and insulation if you have no barrier already.

Whatever you do, make 1000000% sure your shower system has a floor to shower head height (or higher) water proofing MEMBRANE. Hardibacker, durock, TBB, etc are not water proof - they won't structurally fail like drywall will but they will wick moisture and transfer to wood or other materials that will rot, expand, etc. and ruin your tile job just as well. Grout and tile are not water proof either.
If your tile guys haven't heard of schluter, you need to send him back to the last millennium and find other tilers. They may prefer other products as there are plenty of similar products out there that will work as well. However, schluter products are fantastic in that they have a full line of compatible products (trims, drains, corners, shower floors, etc.) and they are dead simple to install (no fancy tools or techniques).

 

[Jazz]

Do you like the Schluter stuff?

Non wetted areas: I'm planning on using green board.

For the shower area (wetted).... A friend of mine is using it currently and I'm intending to use it as well. The Kerdi membrane goes over the cement board after a thin coat of thinset. The tiles are attached to the membane also with thinset. You can use this on the pan as well using a Kerdi drain adapter or Kerdi drain kit. Kerdi has the advantage that it is water PROOF and the water isn't allowed to pass any further. The standard system allows water to pass through the tiles and grout all the way through to the cement board. Once you put the membrane on you've sealed against water going further.

You should do some research on it. It is the ONLY system that is a truly waterproofed. It is also the only system specified for steam shower installations. I plan on installing concrete board down to the concrete mud base and covering the entire shower in Kerdi membrane. It might be overkill, but the upstairs bath is over my garage and I don't want it to leak (ever)!

You might also look into the Detri system for the floor. It's an underlayment the uncouples the tiles from the floor. It has the appearance of waffleboard. Uncoupling the tiles means that if the subfloor moves a little (settles) or shifts a small amount, the tiles will be floating and should not crack. It is also waterproof and will not allow water to soak into the subfloor through the grout and tiles.

You might check out a few "Holmes on Homes" episodes. He uses these products extensively. There are other alternatives but I like this one best.

 

[mrb]

you CANNOT use greenboard on top of a vapor barrier. it creates a double vapor barrier and water will collect between the wallboard and the vapor barrier. You also (could be limited to certain jurisdictions, my only experience with it is local to me) can not use it on ceilings (i learned that the hard way, had to rip out an entire ceiling I just put in).

 

[Painter123]

Dens Shield is water proof if the joints and screws are treated properly
Dens Armor pretty close to water proof due to the fiber glass/paper and it's high density

holds up against and resists water 200 times better than green board