Outdoor Concrete Options

[justsam]

My daughter and SIL are having some extensive backyard landscaping done in Danville California.

I believe they have a first rate GC but they are looking for ideas and options on concrete finishing. What are the right questions to ask in regard to staining, stamping, etc. What is the most durable yet attractive solutions since there are four children that spend a good deal of time in the back yard. There will be pool decking involved as well as a driveway to garage, (see there is a garage component)!

I have read other responses here and know there are some real pros that can offer unbiased knowledge and that is what I am seeking.

 

[bobscogin]

Since you've stated the GC is good, I won't bother with asking about the control and expansion joint layout which are critical to concrete durability. Let's move to the color. What is the contractor proposing for color? Dry shake and stains are surface treatments and while they can look good and be durable there are limits. The best durability and retention of color will be from integral color. It is, of course, the most expensive.

Bob

 

[justsam]

bobscogin,
Thanks for your input. That is the type of high level information I had in mind. Clearly cost is a factor, but they have a "once and done" perspective so will pay to have it done right the first time, and last time.

I have advised them to mind proper drainage, and to place conduit for any future applications that are under slab. I will now point out proper expansion joints too.

 

[bczygan]

From a design point of view, I would seriously ponder the balance of hardscape to other elements in the landscape design. I've seen people go overboard with it and turn the yard into a parking lot. This is especially easy to do when there are grade changes and retaining walls are used to create flatter, more usable spaces. Various types of stone and concrete pavers provide a more natural surface, and can be used as edging for concrete paving or as an alternate surface in some areas. Break up large expanses of concrete with planting areas or vertical structures like decks and pergolas. The more hardscape there is, the more plantings that are needed to offset it.

 

[Edger]

I reckon the best way to go is have the aggregate showing where they apply a solution to the newly finished concrete and wash off the top of the concrete the next day. You can get a fine sand finish too rather than heavy aggregate finish. After it has cured enough apply a densifier which is not cheap, but it is better than the prospect of removing and re applying a sealer over the years.

This will give you a colorful, textured, anti slip and dirt resistant finish that will be permanent in the outdoors. Oil, fat and grease stains will wash off OK if you do not leave them for days (maybe hours) in the hot sun.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Essential to keep whatever you do well sealed. It will protect the color.

 

[JMURiz]

Not to hijack, but what do you seal outdoor concrete with to protect.
FYI mine is a steep hill so I want to make sure it's not slick (shouldn't be an issue with the brush finish)

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Acrylic sealer is great. We have an excellent skid resistance material "soft skid" for this very challenge.

Our outdoor sealer: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd6500-gloss-sealer-exterior-p-256.html

 

[Vintage Veloce]

So much of answering this depends on the style that is desired. Personally, especially with kids, I'd look for something impervious to stains from spills.
We are in SoCal, and wanted a "no water" landscape, and we like the look of concrete. But raw concrete like this is easily stained by spilled wine or drinks, etc. On the other hand, it does seem to sun bleach out over time. Oh, and it would also be tough on kids knees and hands, it's not really fall friendly.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Here are my pet items on concrete.
- It's concrete: make sure it looks like concrete, not fake stone or something. Faux finishes are always cheesier than the real thing.
- Make sure you get the right info on curing. I have never seen a contractor cure concrete in SoCal they way the do elsewhere in the country. No one here keeps it wet or covers it or anything.
- Make absolutely sure you are happy with the forming and talk to the finishing crew yourself to be sure they understand exactly what you want. Once the concrete is done, you are stuck with it. (Most contractors will walk out before they break out your concrete and do it over.) Hold back at least 75% until it is all done, staining, coating and everything, to your satisfaction.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

A few more:
- Buy or borrow a good laser level (one that operates in a plane), get a dip stick (a yard stick can work) and check the slope of the forms everywhere yourself well before the pour.
- Make sure you and the contractors understand the difference between flat and level, and where you want what.
- And make sure the FINISHERS understand the desired crowning, drainage and sloping.

SO MANY PEOPLE end up with poor drainage after these projects because they trust their "good" contractor. Make sure of it yourself, or live with whatever you get.

 

[ConCretin]

I believe they have a first rate GC but they are looking for ideas and options on concrete finishing. What are the right questions to ask in regard to staining, stamping, etc. What is the most durable yet attractive solutions.....

It's really a question of what you like. There are almost endless options for decorative concrete and most perform similarly when properly constructed and maintained. As other's have mentioned, sealers are important to enhance and protect colors.

No matter what finish you apply to the surface, it's vital that good concrete construction practices be followed. Decorative finishes are quite pricey but will only last as long as the concrete itself. Give my Guide to Floor Slabs in the link below a read for some thoughts on this.