Outdoor gate power supply

[ukrkoz]

Hi all.
I need good recommendation.
The key word is, I am not electrician but can do basic electric work.

Here's my problem.
I have double swing gate that is powered by AC exclusively. 548 ft driveway to main house.
We live in rural area, open to winds. Power outages are normal.
They usually fix them in expedite manner, so I am not sure I want to invest into full blown back up generator.
When there is outage, gate will not open. Gate hydraulics may be released by a special key, that we have only ONE and that is in the house.
So this Monday I came back from work and in blasting rain and wind, had to jump fence, walk all the way up to the house, find the key, put my rain gear on, walk all the way back, open gate, drive in, etc.
You got the picture.
I looked at gate schematics several months ago. Some Italian gate openers, consuming only 2A of power and not whole lot of wattage. But they do run off 120V, not off DC from transformer in panel.
Besides, there are 4 LED lights at gate corners. Also, gate keypad, but that likely uses only nominal power supply.
There is large panel that I can get in and have access to the main 120V conduit.
I am thinking about undoing that 120V from the panel and re-routing it through some back up power supply or inverter or else. Something that I can charge from solar OR from 120V when it has power and from solar when there is none. So that gate is always powered, central AC supply or not.
Worst we had so far was 5 hr power outage. In that time, gate may need to open 2-3 times. Plus LEDs.
I'd really like to have a suggestion on set up, keeping in mind I am not electrician or electronics guy. Something I can set it and forget it. Maybe build some box for it to cover from long long rains and high humidity.
But simple, without getting into switches, panels, etc. Or, hiring an electrician to do this for me.

Any suggestions? Thank you.

 

[tarmy]

I built mine...uses a 24v motor...runs off of two 12v batteries...which are supplied 110v power to charge them.

They work on the batteries....which are always charged. When the power goes out ( which it does often...and for days sometimes) it still operates off the batteries. They can run the gate for about a week before they start to run down.

I usually leave the gate open during the day when power is out in case there is an emergency...

 

[The Cobbler]

can you rig up an emergency release (think garage door opener) system that you can open them manually ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

A DC motor really is the best solution. If you can not find a DC motor, you can run an inverter off of two 6V golf cart battery. You will probably need a 1000W, maybe even 1500W inverter, because the startup load of the motor will be quiet high.

If you have 120V AC, use it ! Connect a Battery Tender to a cheap mechanical lamp timer to the AC source. Set the timer to run for about an hour a day, unless you use your gate a lot.

You do need to check the water level in the batteries every couple of months.

 

[ukrkoz]

OK, OK, guys thank you - but you going too hard on me.
1. I am not going to replace openers. those are rather expensive ones and fit the property. I simply need to make them functional in case of power outage.
2. Ok, so say a large marine AGM battery. Solar charger. Inverter. That's easy so far. Then what? Disconnect 120 supply to gate, connect to inverter instead? So gate runs off inverter all the time? On a given day, we use gate maybe 5-6 times. No, I am not leaving it open daytime. I already had uninvited people knock on the house door "because gate was opene".

 

[turbowoodworker]

My opener disconnects the ram from the gate with a pin (not sure of proper name) that can be easily pulled with pliers. No special key. Might you consider changing the type of fastener?

 

[ukrkoz]

No, sorry. I could easily slap two Mighty mules onto the gate but this will lower property value. Besides, if I can "pull the pin" from the outside, so can a baddie. Then what's point to gate?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi all.
I need good recommendation.
The key word is, I am not electrician but can do basic electric work.

Here's my problem.
I have double swing gate that is powered by AC exclusively. 548 ft driveway to main house.
We live in rural area, open to winds. Power outages are normal.
They usually fix them in expedite manner, so I am not sure I want to invest into full blown back up generator.
When there is outage, gate will not open. Gate hydraulics may be released by a special key, that we have only ONE and that is in the house.
So this Monday I came back from work and in blasting rain and wind, had to jump fence, walk all the way up to the house, find the key, put my rain gear on, walk all the way back, open gate, drive in, etc.
You got the picture.
I looked at gate schematics several months ago. Some Italian gate openers, consuming only 2A of power and not whole lot of wattage. But they do run off 120V, not off DC from transformer in panel.
Besides, there are 4 LED lights at gate corners. Also, gate keypad, but that likely uses only nominal power supply.
There is large panel that I can get in and have access to the main 120V conduit.
I am thinking about undoing that 120V from the panel and re-routing it through some back up power supply or inverter or else. Something that I can charge from solar OR from 120V when it has power and from solar when there is none. So that gate is always powered, central AC supply or not.
Worst we had so far was 5 hr power outage. In that time, gate may need to open 2-3 times. Plus LEDs.
I'd really like to have a suggestion on set up, keeping in mind I am not electrician or electronics guy. Something I can set it and forget it. Maybe build some box for it to cover from long long rains and high humidity.
But simple, without getting into switches, panels, etc. Or, hiring an electrician to do this for me.

Any suggestions? Thank you.

Would be helpful to know the brand and model of gate opener you have.

I work on several models and most have a terminal for backup batteries. Many gate openers have a DC motor.

Post some pics of the control board, nameplate etc.

 

[BlackJackJim]

Most all the gate controller boxes I have seen include internal battery provisions just for such cases. In fact, many of the agriculture devices include small solar panel chargers to power a local battery because it may be a real long way to run AC service. You may want to double check what features are available for your unit.

 

[TractorJeff]

Its AC operation?
Add a double pole relay in the panel so it is energized to work off from AC power. On the other contacts hook up a Battery powered Inverter to operate the gate under loss of power(hold coil de-energized). Then charge via AC or Solar charge system.

 

[ukrkoz]

Would be helpful to know the brand and model of gate opener you have.

I work on several models and most have a terminal for backup batteries. Many gate openers have a DC motor.

Post some pics of the control board, nameplate etc.

Will do. I can take pics or even look at it only weekend. I leave when dark and return when dark.
I know 100% (I am almost that positive) that opener is 120V. I hoped they are DC but no, when I looked at schematics before, they showed as 120V.
There is back up battery for this opener but it's $1200 plus install. At that price, I'd rather add several more grand and have back up generator.
I also found that that gate is not up to code. Apparently, there is code that requires gate to swing open or have battery backup or be somehow easily opened by hand during power outage. Fire hazard.

 

[ukrkoz]

Its AC operation?
Add a double pole relay in the panel so it is energized to work off from AC power. On the other contacts hook up a Battery powered Inverter to operate the gate under loss of power(hold coil de-energized). Then charge via AC or Solar charge system.

OK. Great. Language I can understand, please? Double pole relay? Switch of some sort? I get it, if I run it off inverter, it then should have some sort of a switch to move between the power sources, right?

 

[ukrkoz]

Will this work on ANY 120V gate opener?
http://www.gatedepot.com/get_manual_file/4205/

Also, is this enough for only one opener or for two? I see the price, but getting good inverter, battery etc runs not much less than that.

 

[ukrkoz]

Just called Eagle. Tech told me their backup should work on any 120V gate BUT because of the two operators, he recommends Back up 2 which is $1300.
****. At that price, I am better off buying two Mighty Mules and run them on solar. Simple disconnect those fancy openers and replace with MMs. Then mount them back on when selling the house.

 

[ard]

OMG

WHAT IS THE MAKE AND MODEL OF YOUR OPERATOR??????????

Many operators have a battery backup you can add. Specific to that operator.

Edit: I've done Linear and Elite- sliders and swings


For years I tried to keep solar powered gates running, plagued with failure. Finally trneched 1100ft and put in AC. And battery back up. When power fails the gates open. This is the safest method for fire, ambulance and PoCo. In a power outage you do NOT want passages blocked.

That eagle might work, although I do note the output is rated in small fruits... (Currant)

 

[brewchief]

How about one of the battery back ups designed for computers? Would need a water tite housing and depending on size might only be good for a couple of openings and closings.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[ard]

One comment: If you install a battery back up, that just keeps operating the gate, you run the risk of again getting stuck. How long is the power out, what is the battery heatlh, how many operations of the gates have been made.... All of this may result in the gates being closed when the battery runs out. Hence the design I allude to above- open on power off and hold open.

FWIW.

 

[MattN03]

Is it possible to buy an extra key and keep one in the vehicles to unlock the gate when the power is out?

We live on a private road with 7 other homes and our gate openers (double gates) use a battery backup and open automatically when there is an outage.

 

[jpinca]

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to get yourself another key and hide it under a rock or inside a combination-locked key box near the gate?

Here gates are required to have a fire department manual override- basically a locked box with standardized, common key and a manual release inside.

If it were me, I'd build a BBU with an inverter and trickle charger as described above. Forget solar; that's for where you don't have AC at all.

 

[ukrkoz]

I know, please, I know. I leave at pitch black dark and come back home at pitch black dark.
I SHALL GET ALL PICS AND SPECS OF OPENER SATURDAY.

Yep, getting the "key" and giving it to the three drivers we have here is about an option. Or, setting a keybox.
It's actually not a key. It's a rod with a "point" on one side. You place it into release hole in opener and turn counter clock wise to release pressure. Swing gate open.

Maybe we should place this on ice till Saturday am. I promise, I'll get all the specs. Pictures. Panel inside.

 

[ard]

lol!

You know on 'internet time', this weekend is like 100 human years away...

 

[ukrkoz]

Yeah, I am trying to remember where I kept all the pics I took of that opener and panel before. They should be on at least my back up drive at home. I'll look for them tonight. Some made in Italy opener.
I am so pissed we didn't catch on code violation during walkthrough. We could have had this addressed right there.

 

[theoldwizard1]

... a large marine AGM battery. Solar charger. Inverter. That's easy so far.

"Marine" batteries are a compromise. Golf cart batteries are true deep discharge batteries and will last longer. You can buy AGM golf cart batteries but they are expensive compared to flooded cell batteries and more difficult t source (Trojan Reliant T105-AGM).

Then what? Disconnect 120 supply to gate, connect to inverter instead? So gate runs off inverter all the time? On a given day, we use gate maybe 5-6 times.

Yes, wire the open directly to the inverter. With properly sized batteries (two golf cart batteries) 5-10 cycles a day is NOT a problem. Buy a quality name brand inverter. Make sure it is in a dry. ventilated area.

I still say, if you have 120VAC in the location where you are going to install the batteries and inverter, skip the solar. Install a standard duplex outlet, a mechanical lamp timer and a battery tender to recharge the batteries.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How about one of the battery back ups designed for computers?

Properly sized, they are expensive. The batteries for them are REALLY expensive compared to golf cart batteries.

 

[ukrkoz]

I got it. Same thing I thought.
I already have duplex next to opener panel. I actually have duplex with light sensor for gate lights on both gate sides.
I don't care, marine or gold cart. After last fence jumping in scrubs into 50mph winds gasts of rain, I am up for anything that works. No problem building a small dry shelter, easy do.
I like solar. My rental opener runs on solar for 4 years now. Not a bleep. I have 2 AGMs, large boys, hooked up to solar panel.

 

[ard]

But if you have 120VAC there is zero point in adding solar.

Solar basically trickle charges the batteries during daylight, then the openers draw battery as needed.

With AC you have a 24x7 [-minute power outage] charger....

First lets see the model, it will give us so much to go on- what that mfg makes, the power requirements, etc etc

 

[ukrkoz]

bingo
Here's panel innards pics:

https://vault.myvzw.com/webcs/app/share/invite/DlScmK9OQb

https://vault.myvzw.com/webcs/app/share/invite/IBxkD8SUGp

https://vault.myvzw.com/webcs/app/share/invite/uHdYlIgxr7

https://vault.myvzw.com/webcs/app/share/invite/NpYWYHvYxY

let me know what else is needed but, as I said - Saturday am.

 

[theoldwizard1]

But if you have 120VAC there is zero point in adding solar.

My thoughts, but it is HIS MONEY !

 

[ukrkoz]

Actually, if power is out for long time, solar will charge batteries. AC won't. So there is at least some point to have solar back up charger.
Anyhow. I had early dismissal so specs per opener are: 110V. 1.1A. Happen to be so, my memory card decided to poop on me by the time I got home, hence partial pic of the opener.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mV6lZYQII3vpUJEJx_-ZM1JICP3YxhBk/view?usp=sharing

But I located it, it's this fella here:

http://www.sea-usa.com/detail/1/mini-tank

Ok, now that you know all the specs, any suggestions on components? With maybe links?
Also, that backup power supply from Eagle that I linked to before, producing 5A, it should actually pull 2x1.1A, right? Sounds like overkill to me.

 

[ard]

LOL

Is this an annual thing?! From a year ago:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345878

Take everything that was in that thread, rinse and repeat.


(I was searching for the part number from your operator pictures, and google returned a GJ thread..NOT my memory!)


edit. maybe I was being harsh...


http://www.upswung.com/star-battery-backup

Call and ask for a price. Tell them your pain point is $700. Who knows.....

 

[ukrkoz]

Ah yes. I forgot where I asked it. Thank you for finding.
Not yearly. But as I get older thing gets me worse as this time I finally had to jump the fence. Besides, we are not here for even two full years.
Taking swing at this, taking swing.

 

[ukrkoz]

At 1.1A each plus your controller and the loop detectors I still think you are on the right track with the 750W inverter and a couple of AGM deep cycle batteries.

Worsedog
From last year.

Ok, I got it.

this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007PGAG6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Plus trickle charger
Plus a large AGM DC battery , maybe two if off junk yard.
Disconnect current panel power supply, connect to charger, connect panel to inverter.
Place everything into weatherproof container.

See, last year you folks were solar pro.

 

[ukrkoz]

Hold on. even better, that inverter is charger and has built in transfer switch. So no need for separate charger.
I'll post build pic. Have vacation coming in 3 weeks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Actually, if power is out for long time, solar will charge batteries. AC won't.

Unless you are using the gate 10-20 times a day, or have a very high quiescent draw, two 6V golf cart battery will last you 1 maybe 2 days without power ! One "marine" 12V battery will be much less.

One of the better quality small to medium sized inverter companies is Samlex. Some other companies rebrand these products.

A 600W (1000W surge) inverter should have no problem running you system. Their 300W (500W surge) inverter might be borderline.

 

[ukrkoz]

Thank you for sticking around.
I am planning on doing this week of the 4th of December. I have week off.
My obsession with solar is quite simple. On our now rental, I have a single swing MightyMule that then was set on transformer and AC charge. MM 350 runs on 12V and had LARGE battery for power supply. We lost power for five days, middle of winter, and in day 3.5 it stopped working.
That's when I bought solar panel from HFT and never had problems after. 18watt panel, something like $90 or so. MM is dual charging, either transformer or solar.

Ok, inverter.

This is what I found. I actually found full blown manual for my opener. In it it says that it draws 2.7 A peak and 300wt.

I am debating between this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E3V66ZE/?tag=atomicindus08-20
and
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007PGAG6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
reason being, both are inverters/chargers and have built in transfer switch. 2nd one likely I'll pass because it's 750Wt and I already have two times 300 Wt demand, so having power overlap won't hurt, right?
Batteries.
Two golf cart 35 Ah will cost me around $150.
For $50 more I can have this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-100Ah-SLA-Battery-For-Kaddy-E-Caddy-Golf-Cart/174914583
which should be plenty of power and capacity. Somehow, I think one battery is always better than 2, right?
Then all I have left is either building a small shad or finding a weather tight panel box to mount next to the existing one, large enough to house all this.
Here's how I see it:
1. disconnect existing power supply to control panel and connect it to inverter, so that it can act as charger
2. connect battery to inverter
3. connect opener control panel to inverter, either via 3 prong standard plg or via B/W/G wires connectors.
That's about it, right?
theo, will you be a good sport and look at this inverter:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E3V66ZE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Is it a suitable application or I am misunderstanding something?
Thank you

 

[Mongo68]

Two six volts are better than one 12v. Larger plates in the 6v batteries...

 

[ard]

Figure out how much power you need.

IMO that 100Ah may be needless overkill.

That probably draws milliamps 24 hrs a day, then 1.1A when it is operating. 10 times a day, 20 operations, 60 seconds long each? Thats ~0.4Ah per day. 100mA times 24 hrs, thats 2.4Ah a day

So 2.8Ah a day.


I think- someone will correct (im sure)

Batteries age, getting a massive battery and just letting it sit, so you have 30 days of gate back up seems a waste of $$.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Between Samlex, AIMS and Tripp Lite, I will take Samlex. The Samlex is "industrial" quality, designed for continuous operation. Samlex does make inverter-chargers, but the smallest one they make is 1500W which is way overkill.

Samlex does make a stand alone automatic transfer switch, but combined with their 600W inverter is kind of pricey.

Simple solution. Wire in the solar panel and charger. Wire in the battery tender in parallel. Plug the battery tender into a mechanical lamp timer and only charge at night !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Batteries.
Two golf cart 35 Ah will cost me around $150.

Whoa ! That number is way off. Without getting into technical details and defining an "amp-hour" (various way of coming up with that rating) two 6V golf cart should be well over 200 Ah.

For $50 more I can have this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-100Ah-SLA-Battery-For-Kaddy-E-Caddy-Golf-Cart/174914583
which should be plenty of power and capacity. Somehow, I think one battery is always better than 2, right?

Not always. I you really want a 12V AGM deep discharge battery that will last more than a year or 2, buy a Trojan Reliant T1275-AGM. About 150 Ah. Expensive, but these are probably the best battery you can buy.

 

[ukrkoz]

Thank you
1. I am trying to keep it as simple wiring etc wise as possible. this is why I'd rather get ONE piece of equipment with t-switch and charger built in, than pieceworking a bunch of parts. With my electrical skill something is going to go wrong.
2. Walmart sells 35Ah golf cart battery for $65 each new. Good, bad, donno.

Rather irrelevant, or maybe not. I had 2007 Camry Hybrid with OEM Panasonic AGM DC battery. Battery was made in 2006. It is still working as back up battery, part of two battery bank, at my rental. I have Panasonic and DC marine from O'Reilly set on solar charger there. See, this is why I keep circling back to DC and AGM ones, good experience.

Samlex starts at 2300W and at $1300, I'll have to pass on that.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-35Ah-GEL-Battery-Replacement-for-Kangaroo-TG-31-Golf-Cart/139153914

They have several listed in 64-70 dollar range. Good or bad - donno. But I am very good at sealing connections and weather here is rather moderate, no extreme cold or heat. PacNW is PacNW. Very humid for sure.

Theo - thank you so much for guidance.
Everyone else input is kindly appreciated also.
I hate electrical jobs. I don't understand electricity,I am mechanical guy. But it needs to be done. And I am not paying someone $80 and hour to come and connect wires.