Outdoor Generator Storage?

[mike93lx]

For a typical house they make no sense. For the same or less money you could have a dedicated whole house standby generator.

A 27kw is almost certainly a dedicated whole house standy. Did you think it was a portable?

 

[JRC3]

A 27kw is almost certainly a dedicated whole house standy. Did you think it was a portable?

I was referring to the Zombie enclosures.

 

[Noltz]

Those Zombie boxes are really nice. But they're crazy expensive. But hey, if I could afford it, I'd buy one.

There's these kits you can buy from a company called noouttage. They deal in generators and electrical stuff, etc. You can buy the whole thing from them, or just the stuff to modify a shed. Funny, I found them after I built mine. And they did a lot of similar stuff, so I can't be too far off the right track.

http://www.nooutage.com/powershelterkitii.htm

They are quite expensive. Too much for me too. I'll have a look at your posted link though. I'm modifying my shed to house my generator too with sound dampening and ventilation.

For a typical house the Zombie make no sense. For the same or less money you could have a dedicated whole house standby generator. And it would have it's own controller and be automatic. $2000

Expensive for sure. You might notice the Zombie box goes over top of a dedicated stand-by. Whole house generators, even in dedicated enclosures, aren't that quiet. If you're in a urban development the weekly testing of your unit will piss off your neighbors. This solves that. No affiliation, and I'm outfitting a shed to do the same job.

 

[bluwolf]

Zombie makes them for smaller generators too. In fact they even have one for small inverter generators.https://www.zombiebox.com/shop/mini-z

They also have them for regular portable generators.
https://www.zombiebox.com/shop/peacemaker

But again, starting at $1000 for these two, still a little rich for my blood.

 

[Showkey]

Got to give it to Zombie box…….well engineered and packaged.
DIY guy should emulate their unit. Ventilation and no thermal gain in the generator unit is critical.

 

[HamAndEggs]

I've got a 20KW Generac and in Texas. I'm shocked at how little power my home takes... I don't think I've ever seen it over 7-8KW. We're using 3000sqft of the house, but we do have gas tankless WHs. That "little" generator would easily handle the power needs of my home with just a little power management...

Are you planning on keeping the option to do either genset? I like that option over getting hammered by running a 27KW generator all the time, but you'll have to plan for it.


Can you keep it outside? Sure. I wouldn't though - I'd at least get some sort of cover on it. Main concern would be stuff (bugs) getting inside of it. Houston has a good bit of rain... And the main reason why I switched to dual-fuel portables is that propane / NG doesn't go bad.

Currently I have an electric range, which will use a lot of power. I plan to replace it with gas, but its a brand new range so its not high on my list.

If I calculate out all of the general items I have on in my home, I have a peak of 20,484kw. Thats AC, Range on max, the washing machine, dishwasher, microwave, fridge, TV's, computers etc

So, if I spend all this money on a 22kw generator (22kw Generator does 20kw on NG), I'm right on the line and I have to watch what I do. I'm not spending all this money on a standby generator to have to watch what I do. I want it to power the whole house, period

Then, I want a liquid cooled generator. Again I'm not spending all this money on the install for a glorified lawnmower engine. I want the real generator with the real liquid cooled Mitsubishi 2.4l I4 engine that is rated for 24/7 operation unlike the air cooled units, which to not void your warranty, you are required to turn off and check the oil every 18 hours (Something like that, anyway)

So at this point I'm looking at the RG022, the 22kw Liquid cooled generator. But I'd have to watch my load before I replace my range, and guess what, the RG027 cost just $400 more at the time of purchase. On a close to $20K install, $400 for an extra 5kw headroom is a no brainer

Another point is that I expect within the next 5 years, one or both of our vehicles will be EV. Having that extra headroom will be fantastic when I want to charge one or both cars during a power outage

On gas usage, if you compare the 24kw air cooled Generac and the 27kw Liquid Cooled generac, at 50% load the 27kw liquid cooled uses less gas.

So air cooled at 11kw = Same gas usage as liquid cooled at 12.5kw.

running may not use a ton, but when the A/C units kick on, they pull a lot of power.

Fridges too, Fridges have a decent startup current from the compressor. I have a Surestart on my AC and its reduced the startup current a LOT. 19a running, and startup shows as just 29a!

Uhhm, why on earth do you need 27 Kw for a house?

See answer above, IMO its the only smart option if you are going through the hassle of doing a standby generator. Anything less and I would personally just go for a portable unit

 

[Walkers]

Biggest issue I see going with 27KW is that, while you don’t have to watch what you are doing, you do have to run that bigger engine, even if you are running 1 light bulb. I generally max out at 11 KW peak load at my house.

 

[HamAndEggs]

See my point about the gas usage I edited in above. That bigger engine uses less gas than the smaller ones

 

[dcg9381]

I agree that a liquid generator is better.. By far. I just got a (great) deal on a air cooled unit and for how often we have power outages, the air cooled unit makes sense to me. Our grid is "prioritized" as it's attached to the local fire station. You're in Houston, so I totally get and agree with liquid cooled.

I get the "max" calculations, but you have ever considered sticking a load monitor on your main to see what you're ACTUALLY pulling 98% of the time? Our hourly peaks - which I agree do not show momentary in-rush are under 6KW per hour. I've got an induction range, 3 ACs, a microwave, 2 electric ovens, 2 electric dryers. My house is new, so there may be some other reasons why my power use is low. We'd operate on 10KW all day long with very little management.

Totally agree that for $400 more, I'd do 27KW if you think you're close, especially on water cooled.

 

[HamAndEggs]

I dug up the stats on the gas

This compares a 22kw Air cooled unit, and the 27kw liquid cooled unit

At 100% load the Liquid Cooled unit uses 14.36btu/watt
At 100% load the aircooled unit uses 15.69btu/watt

At 50% load the liquid cooled unit uses 7.88btu/watt
at 50% load the air cooled unit uses 10.41btu/watt

The liquid cooled unit at 50% providing 12.5kw of power uses 197,000BTU
the air cooled unit at 50% providing just 9.75kw of power uses 203,000BTU

 

[Hornetd]

The condenser enclosure is a neat idea, but I don't see the job site box as practical unless you have a forklift or tractor to lift the generator in and out.

There are far smaller gang boxes available. A steel pickup bed box modified to provide forced air ventilation might also work.

Tom Horne

 

[mike93lx]

There are far smaller gang boxes available. A steel pickup bed box modified to provide forced air ventilation might also work.

Tom Horne

You still aren't picking that up and I have never seen a bed box that could fit a decent sized generator

 

[Hornetd]

Cement board will heat up and pass it on to the plastic. You want to space it off the wall a couple of inches and make sure air flows around both sides.

That could be true if the generator exhaust is pointed at the plastic wall and rather close to the wall as well. A plastic storage box too close to my portable generator melted. If the generator is a portable set, which is still sitting on it's wheeled frame, that could happen accidentally when returning it to the enclosure following periodic maintenance or from use elsewhere.

Putting the cement board on standoffs would help but it would also help to have the cement board start a couple of inches above the floor and end below the ceiling. As the cement board heats the air in contact with its back side would rise and carry the heat to the top of the shed. A piece of light angle iron would serve as a deflector to keep the heat from being concentrated on the back of the top cover. With a ready made screened and louvered vent at one end and an internally screened vent fan with shuttered cover at the other you would have a pretty good shelter.

If you add foil sided rigid foam insulation to the walls doors and cover the sound would be markedly reduced. I would reinforce the cover lock hasp and the cover edge with aluminum angle iron inside and out to make theft more difficult. A motion sensor aimed at the enclosure that is powered from the generator could turn on LED flood lighting and sound an alarm.

--
Tom Horne

 

[Hornetd]

You still aren't picking that up and I have never seen a bed box that could fit a decent sized generator

I can be slow to catch on at times. I was thinking of the kind of gang box that opens with a two part cover and front door. You lift the front door from the bottom and slide it's bottom edge across the tops of the side walls until it falls into the notches at the back of the side wall which hold it open. The front edge of the top cover of the gang box is rolled over the hinge so that water will not leak through it.

There are bed boxes that are mounted to the side of flat beds over and underneath the bed. Those are available in sizes that will accommodate portable generators up to ~10k watts. When I was fighting wildfires, ~4 decades ago, we made wildland engines by taking a 4WD flat bed, adding bed boxes to both sides above and below the bed, and putting a skid mounted tank and pump between the upper bed boxes. Portable water pumps were carried in the underslung bed boxes so that they would be close enough to the ground for 2 firefighters to lift them out.

One truck we built was an extrication unit for automobile wrecks. An extrication unit is a complete fire engine which also carries a large complement of extrication tools. The underslung bed boxes had gasoline fueled hydraulic extrication tool power units, Various brands of hydraulic jaw tool, rams, spreader struts, multiple 5 gallon jugs of foam solution, cribbing, high lift jacks, vehicle stabilization tripods and all manor of other large bulky tools in them. The upper boxes held the smaller and lighter items.

Tom Horne