Outdoor Motion Detectors that use CFLs ?

[Diavolicchio]

I'm not sure if the technology yet exists out there, but was wondering if outdoor motion sensors yet exist that use CFLs specifically for security lighting. I'm familiar with the range of great products that RAB makes, but none of them use CFLs. I've also seen CFL flood lights, just not motion sensors that use them.

Ideally, I'd like to find a combo motion sensor and flood like unit like this:

. . . but one that uses CFLs instead of incandescent flood lamps.

Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated.


John

 

[Norcal]

The use of CFL's combined with motion detectors will probably result in short lamp life, there may be other reasons that they are not a good combo,+ if these are set for a short on time, one really is not going to save any money & when CFL's are cold light output is low....

 

[Gary S]

You can do it by simply putting in an outdoor CFL flood in the fixture in place of the incandescent or halogen flood, but like already mentioned, you can expect shorter life if the CFLs are constantly being turned on and off.
A much better choice is to remove the motion sensor and replace it with a photocell. This way, the CFL will come on at dusk and go off at dawn. CFLs power consumption is enough lower that you can still run them cheaply, and used in this configuration, they last a long time.
Just make sure that the CFLs you buy are rated at low enough temperatures to work outside in the winter if you have cold weather.

 

[Diavolicchio]

At first glance, the solution that seems to make the most sense would be to take the outdoor wall sconces already on two sides of the structure (which would be activated by a separate motion sensor) and to simply duplicate this design on the third side. It would be more expensive given the cost of the fixtures, but I think it would look better.

The bigger issue appears to be that of outside temperature on these bulbs. Per your suggestion, I just checked a few minutes ago and discovered that these CFLs will only work down to around 14F, so I'd have to be willing to forgo these outside lights during a brutal cold snap. I haven't made that decision yet. Here in Maine, those temps can linger in Winter for days (and possibly weeks) at a time.

I also need to do some research regarding short lamp life with these particular bulbs.

Thanks for the input, guys. Forewarned is Forearmed.


John

 

[Diavolicchio]

I was able to find CFLs for all of the outdoor fixtures that will work down to 0F, so I'll likely still go with these, but also have a couple back-up flood lights I can put out that will function at -20F and be activated from a remote inside the apartment, should I need them during a cold snap.

The CFL bulbs have an average lifespan of 10,000/each when left on continually, so I just need to find out from the manufacturer how much this would be reduced by having them controlled with motion sensors.

Thanks again for the suggestions.


John

 

[nehog]

Some motion sensors use a relay to switch, and they will 'drive' anything including a CFL.

I'd not recommend CFLs in that application, however that is your choice.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Peter,

I spoke with the folks at RAB (from whom I'm getting the two motion sensors) and they said the particular CFLs I'd be using will work just fine with their units. The limitations are that each sensor has the capacity for a full 1000 watts of incandescent light, but just 250 watts using CFLs. Fortunately, I'll only have 168 watts coming off of one, and 84 off of the other.

As to how well they'll perform, that remains to be seen.


John

 

[Striker]

The problem with using CFLs in motion lights is the warm up time. Most PAR38 CFL reflectors can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes to reach full brightness. If the motion sensor is tripped you probably won't have enough light for about 20 seconds to see what is going on. This defeats the purpose of a motion light.

To be honest why do you want CFLs? The amount of energy a PAR38 halogen bulb uses in 2-5 minutes won't make a difference on your electrical bill. That is of course you keep the "on" timer set to something reasonable like a few minutes.

CFL reflectors are best used in "dusk to dawn" lights. Most burn about 23 watts and throw out about the same light as a 100-120 watt halogen reflector. I personally have 7 PAR38 CFL bulbs around my house on a dusk-to-dawn timer. They have been going strong for 2.5 years. I've only had to replace 1 so far.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Striker:

Thanks for the feedback.

The CFLs I'd be using aren't PAR38 floods as in the fixture in my original post, but rather a 42 watt T4 4-Pin (GX24q-4) Triple Tube CFL. I've been leaning this direction mostly because I like the particular fixture in which I'd be using them:

Also because they're a bit brighter. I'd get about 3200 lumens from each of these sconces as opposed to about 1200 lumens from the PAR38's. To achieve the same light with the floods, I'd have to have 16 of them, as opposed to 6 of the triple tubes. My goal isn't to have outside lights on all night, but rather to allow brighter light around the building as it's needed.

I could switch over to different fixtures altogether and just use the 23 watt PAR38's, but I just think they'd look a lot more utilitarian, not to mention that I'd end up with four floods on each side of the structure to produce the same amount of light.

I AM going to take a further look at fixtures for these PAR38's to see if I can find something that doesn't look commercial as I've seen so far. I appreciate the suggestion.


John

 

[Striker]

CFLs without the ballast built-in will arguably warm up faster provided the ballast in the fixture is a quality one. I just realized you're the same person who replied about the different fixtures for his garage addition. Please take a look at my suggestions there as I eliminated the need for that particular light fixture.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Stirker:

I just noticed your post in the other thread. Terrific feedback and suggestions. It's gonna take me a bit to digest them all. Thanks!


John

 

[nehog]

John, I'll add that I have a CFL on the back door deck (which, being New England is the main entry into the house) and I get usable light in about a second or two at all times excluding the very coldest days. Usable, but not bright, but it works. Full brightness takes a minute or so when cold out. (My fixture is similar to yours, enclosed so it does warm up inside the fixture after the light has been on for a while.

(BTW, I do like the fixture you chose, looks nice.)

 

[SL6RAM]

I have read that CFL's use more power during warm up then the listed rating. For example a 13watt bulb that's equal to light output of a standard 60 watt uses 30 watts during warm up. So you might not gain much in a motion light that only turns on for 30 seconds at a time. Just a thought.

 

[Diavolicchio]

I have read that CFL's use more power during warm up then the listed rating. For example a 13watt bulb that's equal to light output of a standard 60 watt uses 30 watts during warm up. So you might not gain much in a motion light that only turns on for 30 seconds at a time. Just a thought.

The only motion sensors I'll be using now will be the ones attached to the bottom of the three wall packs, at 42 watts a pop. I elaborated on this a bit in another thread on here. I checked with the manufacturer (RAB) and learned that I can set the control on them so that when they're triggered, they remain on for anywhere between 5 seconds and 15 minutes. I'd set them for the full 15 minutes so there's not a lot of unnecessary (and annoying) cycling. I'll also rely on the photocell to have them operable only at night.

I'm using these particular fixtures primarily for night lights and additional home security. I'm hoping though that they'll also deter the deer from coming too close to the building and the surrounding flower beds.


John