Outfitting a shop

[sberry]

I am more a shop guy than garage. I like the people here, I like the variety, I am a career welder but not full time, multi trade and farming, a bit of contracting and my day resembles that of a general mechanical contractor in nature. Repair and some projects with the potential to do about anything.
I can't believe I been at this 40 years, been up and down and level and semi retired when I should have went back to work. I built equity, living while I should have done wealth at one point. I am about 10 years late to everything.
So,,, rather than fuss with someone else's thread I gonna pontificate. We got all kinds here and hopefully i keep in mind who we talking to at the time. I am about done with what's the best thread at every turn, this becomes a list of favorites, about half apply, the one they used is the best etc.
I got some of my own and we got guys do the setups that are right for them but some of this is nonsense. Especially without full context. If you gotba fistfull of daddy money, are part of a rock band tours the world, what ever it is and cost is no object then I ain't got a lot of guys added opinion.
Does it really matter what comp it is if it's gonna sit or be flushed down the toilet? I u understand wanting to have it but that is different than what do I need. A lot of guys ru. Out of work if they don't have something in mind, once the place is built don't have so much use for it or it's a total hobby.
The question would be different if a guy said, I wan a go in the fab biz, it will be soon obvious that I have no experience or education in such matters, how do I set up some shop and what work you do but which 4000$ welding bench is worth 500 more than the next is some mental ************.
I do work si.ilar to a lot of guys here, I can identify with the shop owners right down to doing this out of a truck body parked next to a 100A pole.

 

[sberry]

40 years later ain't got one this g on the list of a rash of what's the best threads and can make it most days with simple hand tools, impact, hammers, some clamps and a little scrap steel. I see a lot of steel racks built for a new building g and 20 yrs later still steel bought on spec sitting in space could have been used for something else.
Someone e good at this is a good collector, has the skills learned from own salvage and repair, that's where a lot of education is. I learned after a 700$paint pot there was 129$ one I actually like better. I built a couple shops, they never turned out exact like I thought they would, benches and **** in particular, the way I done it in the end is better cause I wasn't scared to change it and have seen some great starts with a decent plate on solid saw horses.
Saw one nice a while back but too dumb to move it a little to make it work and every version of some absurd 6 inch thick deal I gotta wonder etc and can see the dream but its obvious the guy never used it. The fixture thing has it's place, it can be psychological too,,, that's an asset, the guy likes using it but I like common clamps to start with, I will put a hole if I need one but 30 yrs later need less.

 

[sberry]

I use a half clamp only so rarely I think mine are on a service truck. I do so much so more simple, not above getting the right thing but will solve a problem at hand first before setting up perfect, make sure I really need it.

 

[M6erfan]

"Best?" threads can be annoying. Like you point out, more often than not the OP give little to no context and it becomes 2 or 3 pages of favorites posts, half of which don't even apply. I used to chime in on those types of posts with questions like 'what are you working on?' or ' what size range do you need?', 'whats your budget?' or 'what part of the country are you in?' Usually to no avail, so I gave up. No use in responding to a half assed question.

 

[sberry]

I had a fire, I started replacement and the list wasn't the same. Found out as it went on where I couldn't have it all back today that 6 mo . The later didn't need it and then one came along as gift from.a neighbor, one I got for 50$ and some I should have bought sooner.

 

[sberry]

OkYes, how good is the wrench as a "statistical" matter than how good do I think it is? It's kind of my interest here, does the assumption, the speculation match the reality? We have those that swear every import wrench strips the nut and busts a knuckle. Is that really true? I might have said that at one time.
It would have been repeating a generalization I heard and the math has changed. I should have bought another 50$ battery drill a while ago to meet my demand vs agonizing over 100's. Bought 15 new HF screwdrivers a while ago, paid in the first week. Mostly don't need better today but more where the rubber hits the road. Or need to replace worn,, often bought when they cost a lot more. So many common tools went down so much in the generic market,,, so much so it has changed the value. I actually like the 1.50 driver I bought today as good or better than the one I paid 7.50 for and been li.ping for 10 yrs now but felt committed to that investment.

 

[sberry]

It took a while longer in welding equipment than hard hand tools crept for a few pieces from individual brands, those have held their own with discount vendors. Today don't have to hold out 5 large for a Dynasty,, can do it for 800,, can get every part new,,,, 800.
A point the duck face made,, stabilized is a decent term, for a while the price dropped fast, we see a little rebound at HF and they are upping the game a bit as they should, they did what they should to get this share.

 

[sberry]

The stuff thought I bought short term has been now used long and some of the long was ok, it was fine, just bought the wrong thing and at the expense of the right. Because of age, because the tool improved I rarely buy much long today, it's still working long but so much less painful up front. The tv I bought 10 yrs at one point and pay 150 for with new remote is now 150 or less with all new features. Would I have been better served spending 3x on the first 150 so it "last longer",,,, hopefully?m??

 

[sberry]

Gotta love the logic sometimes. Truck guy sells me a 400$ set of wrenches plus 30 taxs, gives me 10$off and a hat, should be nominated for a humanitarian award. HF sells me a set of wrenches 15 years ago for 15$ that i beat mercilessly with a 22 oz nail hammer and they got a scheme to rob me.

 

[sberry]

He won't be live me he gonna hurt his toes. Not only that it's really cold out.

 

[matt_i]

If you want to outfit a shop you should hang out at HGR Surplus.

Just need to hire a semi truck and rent a forklift to deliver & receive all of your new toys

 

[metlmunchr]

Started a job a while back at my shop making 400 pieces of a funky shaped tapered shim that started out as 3/8 thick steel. Had three 10-32 tapped holes in each piece for attaching to a fixture to mill the angle.

Realize right away my 3/8 drive hex bit socket set is at home in my garage 15 miles away. HF is 4 miles so I zip out there and pick up a set of SAE and a set of metric for about $16 total. About a dollar per socket.

Taking these parts on and off 2 different fixtures X 3 screws X 400 parts made 2400 times in and 2400 times out, all with a 3/8 air ratchet that'll about break your wrist if you don't pay attention. Job done and the socket still looked like new.

HF probably ain't "the best" but any one dollar tool that'll hold up thru 4800 use cycles is good enuff for me.

 

[sberry]

We got a young guy on here been doing some comparing and said he is impressed as to how good it is. I am not saying a guy can't or shouldn't buy better or different but that as a going concern the difference don't matter much especially to a guy got none. Not even a concern to shove it to the scrap can, the loss is so little and a guy use it a couple times has made his juice back.
If the question is I need to work,, I need tools, which would I rather have? 1000 is Snap or 1000 in HF?
It would be different if it didn't work and the price was different. Doesn't work then free is too expensive.

 

[sberry]

This is different than heirloom stuff, it's different than personal preference except for the fact once I used some pieces they actually became as useful and go too as some of my best. Super true for common combination wrenches and I collect a variety for features rather than "quality" so to speak. They prove out and some we got multiples or dupes.
I understand fussi g over the fit and finish of a fine brand tool but what really impresses me more,, like the post above,, is in 2020 can do it for a dollar tool. Cost me 15 cents a year to own something I used hundreds of times worked perfect.

 

[sberry]

The variable is really the person and a bit of circumstance but I suspect the circumstance to be less a factor than it's given credit for. I see some real survivor tools in logging, ag, oil patch and construction. You wanna see some scrap in action its sign guys. Some really seem to make it witb some relics. Body guys are on the top of the list too, seems they always wanna borrow a Phillips

 

[Tinner]

Busy building his post count today.

 

[sberry]

It's free.

 

[sberry]

We don't need no stinking drawers.

 

[ducksface]

It boils down to:

If you're a man who needs the best tools to do your best job,
You're not the best man for the job.

I gave it to a gj member but I had a $3900 set of four wrenches.
Anytime anyone here says best, we all know it's justification and some have never seen best.

I don't need best.
I need the tool at hand.
I can build rocket engines using a hf Cresent with a missing worm drive.
If a pipe wrench and a screwdriver iz wat weze gotz, that's what we'll be changing the clutch with.

Someone here just built a bench top.
He said if he can't be particular about clean and best tools, he won't do the job.
I thought of him changing a tire in the mud with only a big rock and a pipe wrench. He. Won't. Do. It.
If a dozen of you haven't done very similar(both said what he did or change a tire like this) , I'll be flabbergasted.

I read something yesterday:
Weak men make hard times.

 

[ssdave]

.....

 

[sberry]

Mine is easier than fussy organized, it's extremely ergonomic. The organize is "different ".i will buy anything to make it faster and easier too, can't suffer from.second rate either. It's got to work well and be reliable. We really tailor to the regular constant tasks, I will make do on exotic one off jobs but something routine I fuss over the details if it makes a difference.
I also find myself falling back to some more simple things, a lot of them after a bit I find I like as well or better or have a system of standardization or duplication. I tried some HF screwdrivers a while ago and when someone mentioned or gave me a push I bought 15 new, I actually like them at least as good as the Klein. There is nothing wrong with the Klein , there is nothing wrong with the Snap on I own but I don't find myself reaching for them first.
It isn't that I settled for cheaper, that is a bonus, I find I like them as well. Bought 8 new utility knives due to feeling like a vacuum, it's not better but more. I need about 2 more Channeloks 440, the frequency is so high that convenience is paramount. There might be a pliers better, I am not sure but some of these same for a lineman I can feel difference and am so used to 1000s of cycles with them they are predictable.

 

[softailgarage]

My thinking go's like this... I want it, do I need it, will I use it, can I afford it? If I want it, need it, will use it and can afford it, I buy it. If I can't afford it, I'll find a used one or wait till I can afford it. More times than not I'll find a used one, though it may take some time. If time is an issue...steal it (just kidding). Borrowing is always an option, though not suggested in the tool world.

 

[ssdave]

.....

 

[sberry]

Mine is comfortable, it's got the room, it's got the places to wash up, get coffee, got hot pressure washer, I hate the dirt and grease. I am careful about the for hire jobs and trying to get out of a couple now that are a drag. I don't have a yard full of other people's broke cars.

 

[sberry]

I post a lot about economical, that is different than cheap. I encourage investment as a way to reduce work. There is a lot more incentive if it's not so gut wrenching expensive. There is a lot of talk about searching out and collecting, I done this too.
I got no problem with well labeled, with the way others do it but mine isn't as haphazard as it might appear at first glance. It's different and not sized by drive but by type. Ratchets I use in a tray, extensions in another, 9/16 in one, 1/2 in another, drive is easy to differentiate. Every set has an 11mm I don't use, it's been moved out of the way and space created for the several 10 and 13. I need 3 12mm and a dozen 1/2. A couple 11/32, dozen 5/16 nut drivers, same for 7/16 .
It doesn't lent itself well to pre engineered socket organizers.
I really liked a set I saw recent, had half a dozen 10mm of different styles. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[sberry]

Also,, in my case it's important others can use it, all the common stuff in drawers is difficult, I like to see it. If we need it it's usually where it's needed.

 

[sberry]

I could pick up and work from most journeyman master boxes. There are some places you got to be fussy, some places and people it makes sense to. Our set isnt built according to sets but its based on duty cycle. I use 2 main stations or service carts. I make do well without 3/8 impact and one reason is I can and the second its simply not an additional layer of tools.
If I was in a bay all the time, next to a large set of drawers would certainly tailor, get the most comfortable etc. Most of the common tools just got to make it to A home vs the ideal home, they sort of float and rely on duplication.
In other words if I am on that side of the shop and cant find a 1/2 wrench its because they migrated and if the place has been picked up the racks are full. I changed the length or the number of pegs, if this is over flowing then the other must be empty. I got one guy not so fussy on the return of the sockets and its important they are tossed in the right drawer and no real excuse but cant read 18mm or know the difference etc.
After he has worked there got to assume if I dont find it its been mixed. I have 2 colors of tape and mark all the 13 with a yellow and 10 with body tape. The rest I can manage. I did add an additional green stripe to some 1/4 but it wasnt a real problem. I need to take a minute yet and move a couple sizes of metric around on the top layer of the sockets. I got a couple sizes 180 degrees off causes some rotation,,, should be 10 13 15 and the rest on the opposite side.

 

[sberry]

Had a bud visit that is a long time master, real craft type, said, its easier than using my own box. This rack I need to take back to the fab bench and change a few studs. I simply welded a nail on each point and didint really count it all out. O could actually limit it to 3/4 and possibly gain the spaces, need to label specific pegs with the size also.
I could really use it without rotation.
The racks on the boards really need a rev, needs 2 more pegs to keep it from being bunged up.

 

[sberry]

What the chest is for is to provide for the less frequent, over flow, stuff want to keep out of the grit. If this come with red sheetmetal and a hutch over it made it look factory everyone would gush over it.
the stuff is stuff I got to have but can go a week without opening a socket or wrench drawer. You can see the general grade of the common tools, none is used 100%, all been stress tested a long time in a hard industry, replaced if it didnt work, there is a smatter of truck brand but the core sets being cman from the 80's with a collection with uniuque features, dbe in a couple styles, a few offset here and there that are more common but very generic and actually toss the snaps as more of a collection in one of the drawers. Keeps them ready and from people dont know the difference, if there is plenty of common wrenches the casulal user will migrate to the first and the easy vs sorting thru my drawers till they stumble on my specialty ****.
Even tubing wrenches, havnt used one for a month, I need them, I got 20 or so mosly Proto but I skip that **** if humanly possible and a master with a vise grip. 7 and 10R for brake lines.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

Its all about knowing what works and what doesnt. I have my expensive tools all nice and organized and use them when i have serious jobs to do, but since alot of what we do is mobile, most of the week i work out of a service truck or trailer with minimal tools compared to what i got in the shop. I like snap on, but i could survive without it. When i started out i bought alot off the trucks, now when i replace things or buy more to outfit a truck theres alot more options for 1/3 of the price.

All that pretty organization goes right out the window when youve worked 16 hours on the road, its cold and starting to rain and you want to go home. Youll open any cabinet on the truck that has room and throw piles of tools in there so you can get back in the truck to the heat. The next day first thing you have an emergency call so theres no time to organize before you leave to get to the job. A service truck is a hard life for tools and if youre busy making money the last thing you have time to do is clean and polish your tools.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

If im lucky ill spend an hour or 2 on the weekend and clean out my truck and sort the tools but when you spend all week in the damn thing its the last thing i feel like doing. Alot of things get lost, broken or sacrificed to get the job done, so its easier to just buy used from the pawnshop to replenish things every now and then than to obsess over finding the exact matching 9/16 deepwell to complete the socket rail. I keep my nice tools clean and sorted in my boxes and am proud of them, but i dont use them every day.

 

[sberry]

If I need a wrench different than whats hanging its over and in a drawer. Might dig up one with a different feature on occasion. Pic 4 has the flank drives kind of off to the right. That works ok.

 

[sberry]

I worked out of trucks, several types. To tell the truth I like a mini van with folding rear and take the middle right out. Throwing in in there is boxes is ok, you got to root a little and it gets messy fast but is easy, hi and dry. Dont got to get in the truck to so anything and I but a box in between the seats to toss some stuff and that really keeps the stuff from sliding forward.
When I am in a pickup this is my thing.

 

[sberry]

i work out of a service truck or trailer with minimal tools compared to what i got in the shop. I like snap on, but i could survive without it. When i started out i bought alot off the trucks, now when i replace things or buy more to outfit a truck theres alot more options for 1/3 of the price.

This is more where I am at with this. My road kit was plucked from generic stock, I certainly got more about function on the road. I was out the other day and we got jambed up and had 3 journeyman on a 1/2 breaker bar working our way out of a seized jamb for over an hour. I bought 3 and have 2 left and should have replaced the 3rd.
The customer has an SK, I got one but I carry that. No way no how could have anyone been able to determine from that use what brand the thing was and for the 15$ it cost is technologically revolutionary.

 

[sberry]

Not sure it can be seen in some of those pics above I really had it packed, under seats and in back had it all stacked full. There is an inverter behind the gear shift, I had another tin box with a folding lid by drivers seat screwed to the floor and had it full of holesaw and drill bits and a extra cab light for night work and had a lite in the rear box too. There was an 11R holstered in there somewhere.

 

[steaks&anvils]

I totally do this.

As homeowner, I don't have or need too many tools. BUT, I get tired of going out to the garage to get a screw driver.

I have the kitchen utility drawer tools used for a quick grab-n-fix. Screw drivers, hammer, scissors, tape measure, pliers.

I have tools in the basement for the same thing. Scissors and tape measure are a big one here!

When I had a yard, I had a bucket with tools to fix sprinkler problems. I got tired of going to the garage, gathering the right tools, take them out to the yard and fix a sprinkler head. Then needing to clean up the tool so it wouldn't rust and take it back to put away. So I had a bucket with extra parts, channel locks, nut driver, screw driver, tube cutter, trowel etc. I would just grab the bucket and fix the head that I ran over with the mower. Plus, I didn't freak out if I lost a tool in the trench or yard.

I actually have a few tools in the upstairs bathroom drawer so I don't have to go downstairs to tighten a knob or loose dresser drawer.

sberry, keep doing what works for you and the rest of us can grab ideas from you as we see ones that we can use!

 

[csp]

The one common thing i see in every indoor picture you take sberry is it's dark beyond the flash in your photo. Have you ever considered investing in some lighting?

 

[sberry]

Yes, it is kind of dark in spots but we zone light and have some stands. I task light over benches. I have 20 ft ceilings. I worked in a bay today, turned all the lights up in that area, maybe 600 sq, ft. 10% of the space or so.

 

[sberry]

One of my OCD is to try to get the bench cleaned off between some jobs.

 

[sberry]

One of my OCD is to try to get the bench cleaned off between some jobs.

Must not have turned on bench lights.