Outlet identification/compressor wiring??

[MikesTTGt]

Need a little help, just moved into a newer place and got a new compressor I need to get wired up, compressor is a 60 gal, 5hp 1phase 230v 2 stage unit. My first issue is the outlet plug shown below, ive never seen any 220-240 volt outlet with 3 straight legs on it and im not sure what is was used for but can i use it and is it easy to find a plug for? Im only fimilar with the typical range style plugs. Other issue is the compressor is about 40ft from the plug-in will I be ok running 10-3 cord that far or does the compressor need to be moved to a differnt location? Hopfully my pics post and somone that know this stuff better than me chimes in!! Thanks.



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[MikesTTGt]

Cant get my pics to post bigger

 

[alpinewhite]

If the pictures were bigger, we could take a look.

 

[sands35]

Need to use a service like photobucket. Upload them there, then use the direct url link.

 

[Stuart in MN]

There are charts online showing the different styles of receptacles, here's one: http://www.powercabling.com/hubbell/hubbell.htm go there and see if you can match up your receptacle.

 

[nehog]

Cant get my pics to post bigger

Do not use a photo hosting service, just post them directly to the forum and all will work very well.

 

[MikesTTGt]

ok pics are now bigger looks to be a 50a 14-50 by the link posted im still not real sure on specifics tho, in my fuse panel the circuit is also protected by 2 60a breakers is this correct

 

[sands35]

That plug has 2 hots, one neutral and one ground. The compressor needs two hots and a ground. You can do an extension cord that long if it has the right amp capacity, but it might be cheeper to run conduit and a new outlet.

IMHO, i'd start thinking about a sub panel and doing it that way. What else will you use the garage for? "Typical" residential garages don't have much in the way of electric power. Code doesn't require much.

 

[MikesTTGt]

How can I tell if it has the correct amp capacity? I have about 50ft of stranded 10-3 wire currently that isnt being used, id run a sub panel but im hoping to build a 30x50 shop next year and moving all my tools over to it so im trying to keep it as simple as i can for now, but I need it to be safe, whats the purpose of the 14-50 outlet? Just curious as ive never seen one before. Thanks again

 

[madosta]

14-50 is awesome if it is 6 AWG wire to the panel, those two breakers you refer to should be tied together.

Maybe an RV?
Maybe a newer dryer or range, or any appliance that needs 240v and 120v.

There's a couple other posts with the same questions you have as far as amperage and distance.

You'll want to protect your wire and your motor at the proper amperage so you don't burn down your garage, #10 on a 60amp breaker is a bad idea.

 

[madosta]

Or maybe a kiln, or a grow room, cooking meth? lol jk

Your motor says 21amps, so #10 to a 30amp 240v breaker is probably the best bet. If you're referring to the orange 10-3 or 10-2 NM "romex" it should be attached properly/permanently from your compressor to the panel.

Maybe a pic of your panel too. Can you access the panel to feed in the romex?

 

[MikesTTGt]

Should a remove the 60amp breakers and put in 30's ? I honstly dont know a much but the basics on a\c voltage, whats nice about having 6awg run to the box from the outlet?

 

[madosta]

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211546&highlight=5hp+compressor

pattenp knows everything.

 

[madosta]

Should a remove the 60amp breakers and put in 30's ? I honstly dont know a much but the basics on a\c voltage, whats nice about having 6awg run to the box from the outlet?

Plenty of POWAAA!!!

I would get some 10-2 romex and staple it all the way to the panel and wire that to a 30amp breaker, a single tandem breaker - it will require both legs to be turned on and off at the same time.

How far from the panel is your air compressor vs how far from this plug is it?

 

[MikesTTGt]

Or maybe a kiln, or a grow room, cooking meth? lol jk

Your motor says 21amps, so #10 to a 30amp 240v breaker is probably the best bet. If you're referring to the orange 10-3 or 10-2 NM "romex" it should be attached properly/permanently from your compressor to the panel.

Maybe a pic of your panel too. Can you access the panel to feed in the romex?

I have a half spool of black 10-3 black stranded wire to run from the compressor to the outlet as long as it will work with no problems i just need to go buy a plug.

 

[madosta]

I have a half spool of black 10-3 black stranded wire to run from the compressor to the outlet as long as it will work with no problems i just need to go buy a plug.

Sounds like SOOW cord?

You could temporarily get by with that to a 14-50P. I would think about a 30amp breaker though.

 

[MikesTTGt]

Plenty of POWAAA!!!

I would get some 10-2 romex and staple it all the way to the panel and wire that to a 30amp breaker, a single tandem breaker - it will require both legs to be turned on and off at the same time.

How far from the panel is your air compressor vs how far from this plug is it?

Panel is pretty far from compressor in basement of the house.

 

[MikesTTGt]

Sounds like SOOW cord?

You could temporarily get by with that to a 14-50P. I would think about a 30amp breaker though.

May go that route for the time being then, ill replace the 60 amp breaker with a 30 to be safe!

 

[MikesTTGt]

Just reading another thread that the 14-50 is only rated for a 3hp motor lol this is becoming too much

 

[pattenp]

Read this post. It will make your head spin.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206312

 

[Charles (in GA)]

....and wire that to a 30amp breaker, a single tandem breaker - it will require both legs to be turned on and off at the same time.

Just to clarify here, a "single tandem breaker" is two of the thin (½ in usually) breakers that are riveted together and have two separate handles. They are designed to power 120v circuits, as they are connected to only one stab in the panel.

What the OP needs is a Double Pole circuit breaker (which by its nature has the handles permanently tied together), and connects to two stabs of the panel, the opposing "phases" of the transformer supplying it.

Charles

 

[MikesTTGt]

Read this post. It will make your head spin.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206312

no joke now im confused lol

 

[pattenp]

Boy... I sure have got you fooled.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211546&highlight=5hp+compressor

pattenp knows everything.

 

[MikesTTGt]

Boy... I sure have got you fooled.

well to keep this easy can i use the current plug with my 10-3 wire and replace the breaker with 30a safely for now idealy id hard wire but im waitn till i put up my shop to go all out, i need to be able to run my compressor and welder for now and ill be good

 

[pattenp]

I can talk code until I'm blue in the face so I'll spare you. If this is just temporary and you will be unpluging the comp when not in use you have my blessings. And you can change to the 30A breaker for the added peace of mind.

well to keep this easy can i use the current plug with my 10-3 wire and replace the breaker with 30a safely for now idealy id hard wire but im waitn till i put up my shop to go all out, i need to be able to run my compressor and welder for now and ill be good

 

[bsaint]

Thats the strangest Baldor compressor motor Ive ever seen

 

[MikesTTGt]

I can talk code until I'm blue in the face so I'll spare you. If this is just temporary and you will be unpluging the comp when not in use you have my blessings. And you can change to the 30A breaker for the added peace of mind.

Thank you

 

[MikesTTGt]

Thats the strangest Baldor compressor motor Ive ever seen

hmmmm its on a quincy i duno!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Or maybe a kiln, or a grow room, cooking meth? lol jk

Your motor says 21amps, so #10 to a 30amp 240v breaker is probably the best bet. If you're referring to the orange 10-3 or 10-2 NM "romex" it should be attached properly/permanently from your compressor to the panel.

Maybe a pic of your panel too. Can you access the panel to feed in the romex?

Incorrect. Motor circuits are sized based on NEC FLC corresponding with motor HP rating NOT nameplate amps. Also, wire is sized at 125% of FLC.

For the OP, who said 5HP(28a FLC), this would mean #10 THHN in conduit or #8 NM- 28a x 125% = 35a.

 

[sberry]

Put a plug on that cord and stick it in. Thats the short version.

That comp was built to be allowed for a 10 30 circuit for residential garages. This is a listed UL appliance with a fukkin plate on it. There might even be a wire guide in the owners manual. In pipe they would probably allow a 12 and breaker to 40.

The fact that its temp doesn't reduce the need for safety but doing a bunch of work you don't need to isn't either. (just slid past another dangerous accident Sunday) Adding expense can be a factor so put plug on cord, plug in.

There is a lot of code quotes and sometimes a little why is in order,,, it would clear a lot of confusion and couldn't hurt. Some of you Masters are excellent at correction bu8t pathetic teachers.

In this case,,, the 10 is fine on the 60 (its limit basically) the breaker is there as a means of disconnect and in case you short 2 wires together or either one to a grounded frame. Ideally at 60A this 10 would go to the appliance,, not connected with a smaller cord. We should reduce the breaker in that case,,, to a max of 50 for a 12 or maybe 30 for a 14.

The breaker does not protect the wire from thermal in these cases, the applied load does, it pulls 21 A and has its own internal thermal protection.

This is why having lots of panel spaces is a great idea, they go fast in a small garage where simple circuit design allows for one machine per etc, there aint no mystery here and in the grand scheme the HP issue is rather minor, I am sure they did it for a reason but it aint gonna mean squat to this dinky motor.

An electrician may calculate, be able to design circuits knowing all this for multiple machines, wood working shops come to mind. All the cords need to be sized etc.

 

[sberry]

Lots of fixtures 120v are connected to circuits larger than 20A, got to add internal fuses and larger cords. I tore a circuit out of an old house a while back,,, it had been there a while but they used a 16 lamp cord as a switch loop. It worked fine for a fixture as long as no one come along and screwed a cheaper in and plugged a heater to it.

The point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lots of confusion between thermal and short circuit interruption. Some of the manuals don't help, the small welder ones are confusing at best and if they simply recommended one wire size up from the minimum they could get rid of a lot of it.

 

[sberry]

A 200 compact mig welder comes with a 12 cord and 50A end on it,, then you get to the OM and it lists a smaller wire with a max breaker rating. Fine for the electrician, pitiful, dangerous and confusing to everyone else,,, and I cant see how it saves any skin for the mfg to list it this way. How hard could it be to simply list a 12 wire and even say,,, this machine may be wired with 14 legal but as a mfg we think you would be better served and safer with a wire up from the minimum and it allows for connection to circuits with a 50 like the fukkin cord end????

 

[James_B]

I put in a 20 foot run of AWG 6-3 cable from a double pole 50A breaker to a 6-50 welder type socket for my 5HP compressor (couldn't get 6-2 at the time, so I just cut off the white wire at both ends). The compressor is fitted with a 6 foot length of flexible AWG 10-3 "stove cable" that runs from a 6-50 plug to the compressor terminals.

The 6-50 socket means that I can legally plug my welder that came from the factory with a 6-50 plug into the same outlet.

It was all removed before we put the house on the market as I needed those 2 breaker positions to bring the kitchen up to code.