Outlet question

[ADKGarage]

I just did a search and could not find an answer to this question. I'm installing 20A outlets in my garage which is not yet finished(walls). I want to run the outlets along the walls of the garage and want to leap frog them so that I have 2 separate 20A circuits running. That is:
circuit 1.......circuit 2.......circuit1....circuit2.......and so on.....


This way, that in the unforeseen future, I may want to throw in a refer or freezer etc and can easily drop them in without taxing any one service.
My question is can I install an outlet every say, 6 feet? Is the max each 8' or is that the minimum? Thanks.

 

[GMBracing]

I as told that outlets should be 6 ft apart max so that you don,t need long extension cords. this was in the house . good idea with 2 circuits, I have 4 circuits in the garage 1 on each wall and 2 near the work bench wall (back)

 

[hidollartoys]

No min/max in nonresidence.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't know if there is any MINIMUM spacing between outlets.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I as told that outlets should be 6 ft apart max so that you don,t need long extension cords.

The code in a dwelling is 12' apart maximum, not 6'.

 

[Speedy Petey]

My question is can I install an outlet every say, 6 feet? Is the max each 8' or is that the minimum? Thanks.

In a garage you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Minimum: 1
Maximum: ∞

 

[2LTim]

Minimum spacing is dictated by the cove plate.

 

[pattenp]

You could do a multiwire branch circuit and alternate the outlets on the legs. That way you can use one run of 12/3 NM for the outlets. The down side is if you trip the DP breaker all outlets will go out.

 

[Steevo]

I like your idea, and as the others have said, you can put them as close together as you desire.
I went with 4' max. between receptacles in my shop. but didn't stagger circuits as you are planning to do. That takes more romex, but would be good for load sharing.

 

[eriksalo]

When I wired my shop, I put two outlets every six feet. One high and one low. The low outlets are 14" up from the floor. The high outlets are on a separate circuit in the middle of the wall 52" up.

Outlets are cheap and you can never have too many! If you buy the outlets and covers on the internet, it's not much more costly to do it this way.

This way, I can use two heavy current tools in the same area since I have two circuits everywhere. I have a big shop so its actually 8 separate circuits overall I think but you get the idea.

The reason the second set is 52" up the wall is I wanted to be able to plug in if there was a 48" sheet of something (plywood, drywall, etc) laying against the wall. They also come nicely above work benches, other stuff that gets leaned against the wall, etc.

In practice, this has worked great. The lower outlets are are usually used for stationary machines and I plug in the portable stuff I happen to be using in the higher outlets. Also, if you just have lower outlets you are always crawling behind your workbench, etc to find a place to plug in and that's just not civilized.

Very convenient and I would do it the same way the next time.

 

[Falcon67]

I put them every 6-8 feet more-or-less and at 48" off the floor. And I still use the hell out of extension cords. Shortest in the shop is 25'.

 

[ADKGarage]

Thanks for all the feedback. My garage project is in the adirondaks and an electrician told me that the outlets need to be GFI and 48" off the deck. I like the idea of the multi circuit setup and having outlets low and high but again, the 48" minimum requirement. I'm going to re-verify that requirement.

I'm still a little confused about the lighting in there, T8's, t5's, etc. I have 10' ceilings and the garage is 24x30' with a loft above. It gets cold as heck up there in the winter and it adversely affects the ballasts for floresant lamps. LED's are still crazy expensive. What would you all think would be my best bet?

 

[pattenp]

There is no NEC requirement that the outlets in a garage be at 48" even though it's a good idea because stuff leaned up against the wall won't block the outlets. The T8 HO lights are cold start to -20F, those are what I suggest.

 

[eriksalo]

If you have room in your box, you can get GFI breakers. They make the whole system easier and you can use all regular outlets and still have GFI protection.

Also, if you are going to do 48" high outlets consider making them just a few inches higher. That way if you have any sheet goods (e.g. 4'x8' sheets) leaning the short way against the wall you can still get to your plugs.

 

[pattenp]

Easier? How do you figure that? All he needs to do is install one GFCI outlet upstream from the ones that need to be protected. A GFCI outlet is 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of a GFCI breaker.

If you have room in your box, you can get GFI breakers. They make the whole system easier and you can use all regular outlets and still have GFI protection.

Also, if you are going to do 48" high outlets consider making them just a few inches higher. That way if you have any sheet goods (e.g. 4'x8' sheets) leaning the short way against the wall you can still get to your plugs.

 

[eriksalo]

I find the box mounted breakers easier/better in the sense that if you have a big shop (or a full shop in my case), and you blow a GFCI you don't have to go hunting behind all of the workbenches, piles of stuff, machines, etc. to find the outlet that popped. If the GFCI breakers are all in the box, you have easy access to them. Also, if you have any branch circuits you don't have to manage the GFCI outlets, they are all protected.

I don't know about you but at any given time it seems like 75% of my outlets are obstructed by something. If you happen to put your beer refrigerator in front of the one GFCI outlet, you will have to move the thing every time it pops.

I would also propose that the GFCI's go more often than you think. I have a Delta 6" planer that makes enough back EMF on power down to blow the GFCI system. Nothing wrong (or some I'm told by Delta), that's just the way it works.

 

[pattenp]

eriksalo, I agree with what you're saying, but I was thinking in the sense of the typical residential garage.

 

[ADKGarage]

Any recommendations on what T8 HO lights you have been happy with? I just went to Home Depot and they had one set that were HO T8's. Loved the amount of light these things emitted. What and where did you guys get the lights from? I was hoping for flush mount but that is not critical.

 

[pattenp]

ADKGarage, read this post for some more info on the T8 HO's.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86254

 

[RECox286]

If you put a refrigerator or freezer in the garage, make sure to plug it in to a

non-gfi receptacle that is dedicated from the panel as such. Wouldn't want to

ruin $x of steaks, or have warm beer. Heaven forbid !

Uncle Bob

 

[ADKGarage]

Outstanding, Thank you!

 

[Zeke]

You could do a multiwire branch circuit and alternate the outlets on the legs. That way you can use one run of 12/3 NM for the outlets. The down side is if you trip the DP breaker all outlets will go out.

OK, I need to go to school here. Why a DP breaker on 12/3 used as separate circuits? If I wired in conduit pulling in a red, black, white (and of course a ground) using the white as a common neutral, I wouldn't know to use a DP breaker there. What did I miss?

 

['04 Cummins]

OK, I need to go to school here. Why a DP breaker on 12/3 used as separate circuits? If I wired in conduit pulling in a red, black, white (and of course a ground) using the white as a common neutral, I wouldn't know to use a DP breaker there. What did I miss?

As of 2008 code, shared neutral circuits are required to be terminated on a DP breaker, or two single pole breakers with an approved handle tie.

 

[pattenp]

A multiwire branch circuit shares the neutral and only line to neutral loads can be placed on this circuit. The disconnecting means needs to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where the circuit originates. So you can use a DP breaker or single pole breakers with an approved handle tie. NEC 210.4(B) & 240.15(B)

 

[pattenp]

I hear what you're saying, but even if the outlet is dedicated to the refrigerator and is in the garage it has to be GFCI to meet NEC. I don't know of any exception.

If you put a refrigerator or freezer in the garage, make sure to plug it in to a

non-gfi receptacle that is dedicated from the panel as such. Wouldn't want to

ruin $x of steaks, or have warm beer. Heaven forbid !

Uncle Bob

 

[Zeke]

I hear what you're saying, but even if the outlet is dedicated to the refrigerator and is in the garage it has to be GFCI to meet NEC. I don't know of any exception.

Thanks for the 2008 update. And older code stated outlets in a garage over 8' off finish grade could be used w/o GFCI. True still?
If so, the fridge could be plugged into a high outlet via an appliance cord.

 

[pattenp]

The 2011 NEC states ALL 125V 15A & 20A receptacles installed in garages that have a floor at or below grade will be GFCI protected.

Thanks for the 2008 update. And older code stated outlets in a garage over 8' off finish grade could be used w/o GFCI. True still?
If so, the fridge could be plugged into a high outlet via an appliance cord.

 

['04 Cummins]

I hear what you're saying, but even if the outlet is dedicated to the refrigerator and is in the garage it has to be GFCI to meet NEC. I don't know of any exception.

NEC 210.8 (GFCI required) A (Dwellings, in bathrooms, garages) Exception 2: A single receptacle located within a dedicated space for the appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7 A 6,7,8

^^^^
That is the only exception that I know of.

 

[Speedy Petey]

NEC 210.8 (GFCI required) A (Dwellings, in bathrooms, garages) Exception 2: A single receptacle located within a dedicated space for the appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7 A 6,7,8

^^^^
That is the only exception that I know of.

Which goes way back to the 2005 NEC. In the 2008 this was removed.
I can't imagine there are many places left on the 2005 NEC.

 

['04 Cummins]

Which goes way back to the 2005 NEC. In the 2008 this was removed.
I can't imagine there are many places left on the 2005 NEC.

I stand corrected...

 

[pattenp]

You had me going there for a moment, I was starting to drag out the book until Speedy jumped in.

NEC 210.8 (GFCI required) A (Dwellings, in bathrooms, garages) Exception 2: A single receptacle located within a dedicated space for the appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7 A 6,7,8

^^^^
That is the only exception that I know of.

 

[ADKGarage]

Wow, I'm learning quite a bit, keep it going! This is as good as sitting in a classroom, really.

 

[Falcon67]

Easier? How do you figure that? All he needs to do is install one GFCI outlet upstream from the ones that need to be protected. A GFCI outlet is 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of a GFCI breaker.

Thats how I did mine - I have 5 runs, each starts with a double gang box and one side is a GFCI on the infeed.

 

[eriksalo]

I went back and looked and I actually put dual outlets every 48" (three studs).

Never enough...