outlets in garage

[camaro0991]

Hey all i need some suggestions. my walls in the garage are studded out with drywall installed already...bit the studs where installed on thier sides to save floorspace so theres basically about 2 inches of space between the outer wall and the drywall. i would like to install outlets recessed into the wall as i have easy acces to fish wire behind the drwall down to the outlets. My problems are finding what kind of outlet boxes to mount. Im running 12-3 romex so i can have every other outlet on a different circuit....so i need to be able to fit the wiring in there as well. any help would be appreciated.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Hopefully this is not a structural wall. Possibly it is a false wall mounted up to a block or poured wall???

You may be better off surface mounting the boxes, otherwise, I think you have already figured it out, you will have boxes half in and half out of the sheetrock. You need the depth of boxes to work in, no way around that. Shallow boxes just don't cut it for mounting receptacles, they take up too much of the box.

It sounds like you are planning on running multiwire circuits, I hope you understand them well. If you don't, you will have a mess on your hands.

Charles

 

[elav]

Use a shallow electrical box...

 

[RECox286]

I would opt for surface mount boxes tied together with EMT. Much

more appropriate for a garage, and easier to construct. Also easier

to modify down the road.

Uncle Bob

 

[camaro0991]

Hopefully this is not a structural wall. Possibly it is a false wall mounted up to a block or poured wall???

You may be better off surface mounting the boxes, otherwise, I think you have already figured it out, you will have boxes half in and half out of the sheetrock. You need the depth of boxes to work in, no way around that. Shallow boxes just don't cut it for mounting receptacles, they take up too much of the box.

It sounds like you are planning on running multiwire circuits, I hope you understand them well. If you don't, you will have a mess on your hands.

Charles

Correct...its studs turned sideways ramset gunned into the block structural wall. was done to make hanging sheetrock possible. Yes i understand the mutli circuit idea i beleive. basically i have a double 20 amp. Breaker with common trip. using 12-3 wire from them ill be alternating the power source from red to black for each outlet. the one not being used just daisey chains onto the net outlet. Yeah im thinking i might not be able to avoid surface mount. itd be so much cleaner resessed though.

 

[VHF]

Im running 12-3 romex so i can have every other outlet on a different circuit...

I really love MWBC, so I hate to tell you, but this approach isn't really viable any more given the current NEC requirements that all 120V garage outlets must be GFCI-protected.

If you run 12/3, the only way to provide GFCI-protection would if every recepticle was a GFCI recepticle.

More typical is to have the first recepticle on the circuit be a GFCI recepticle and protect all the downstream outlets OR to use a GFCI breaker. But in either case, each circuit needs a separate neutral.

If you are using shallow outlet boxes to fit your wall depth, you'll definately want to use GFCI breakers--I don't think a GFCI recepticle will even fit in a shallow box! Most practical is just to run 12/2 for each circuit.

 

[TonyF]

I don't think a GFCI recepticle will even fit in a shallow box! Most practical is just to run 12/2 for each circuit.

I dont think it will fit either. Those things are tight into regular boxes

 

[camaro0991]

I really love MWBC, so I hate to tell you, but this approach isn't really viable any more given the current NEC requirements that all 120V garage outlets must be GFCI-protected.

If you run 12/3, the only way to provide GFCI-protection would if every recepticle was a GFCI recepticle.

More typical is to have the first recepticle on the circuit be a GFCI recepticle and protect all the downstream outlets OR to use a GFCI breaker. But in either case, each circuit needs a separate neutral.

If you are using shallow outlet boxes to fit your wall depth, you'll definately want to use GFCI breakers--I don't think a GFCI recepticle will even fit in a shallow box! Most practical is just to run 12/2 for each circuit.

Yes I was going to have the first two outlets be GFCI's.

 

[Zeke]

You could use 4S square boxes and trim with a flat plate punched for the receptacles. You could also use the same box with a 1/2" single gang plaster ring if you son't mind the repair.

Or a flat cover:

Used like this:

 

[camaro0991]

Wait i just reread that. What do you mean about the gfcis? i was running 12-3 from thw breakwr box. the red and the black from each power lig on the commontrip double 20 breaker the neutral and the ground. on the frist outlet id hook up as usual bit wire nut the red to the next leg...on the next outlet....id alternate and hook the red up to power and wire nut the blacl ect.ect... can i not do this. whats the best wayto use the 12-3... I already have it so im stuck with it. do i run gfci every outlet on the same neutral?

 

[lenmissy]

You can use a 4by4 box with a plaster ring lots of room.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You can use a 4x4 box with a single plaster ring, but then you have to spackle up the open sections.
I'd use a 4x4 box, with a two gang plaster ring and two receptacles at each box. This way the cut out for the box is exactly the cut out you need for the ring as well. A 2-gang plate will cover everything perfectly.

As to the GFI issue, no, you cannot have a GFI at the beginning of the circuit and LOAD out. You either need a GFI at every box, or a two pole GFI breaker. Of course, the GFI breaker is the much easier way to go.

 

[camaro0991]

As to the GFI issue, no, you cannot have a GFI at the beginning of the circuit and LOAD out. You either need a GFI at every box, or a two pole GFI breaker. Of course, the GFI breaker is the much easier way to go.

Ok so basically, i get a gfci breaker..install it in the box. I then run one 12-3 wire to the first outlet, install it as usual, (black to power, white to neutral, ground to groud) and wirenut the red to the red going to the next outlet. At the next outlet, i connect the red to power, connect the neutral and the ground daisy chained from the previous outlet.

-or-

I leave the dual common trip double 20 amp breaker i have in ther....wire everything the same way...but have gfci"s outlets for every outlet.

 

[camaro0991]

actually my freind whose going to be helping me is saying we're splitting the neutral first. And i think i may have found a box at lowes thats shallow...but has another part that hides behind drywall where you can stuff the wires.

 

[Zeke]

You can use a 4x4 box with a single plaster ring, but then you have to spackle up the open sections.
I'd use a 4x4 box, with a two gang plaster ring and two receptacles at each box. This way the cut out for the box is exactly the cut out you need for the ring as well. A 2-gang plate will cover everything perfectly.

As to the GFI issue, no, you cannot have a GFI at the beginning of the circuit and LOAD out. You either need a GFI at every box, or a two pole GFI breaker. Of course, the GFI breaker is the much easier way to go.

You've done a lot more electrical than I, but adding that 2nd receptacle to the 4S box is going to crowd the wires, no? Especially if the OP uses GFCI's.

The single gang plate would be my 2nd choice due to the repair, but some fiberglass tape on either side would make a good patch. One thing I don't like about a mud ring with a single opening over a bigger box is pulling out a device to rework something. I'd rather have full access and if the ring is patched in, that ain't happening.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Zeke, you have to remember, a 2-gang mud ring will give you that much more box volume as well.

The shallow 1-1/2" boxes would be a very good reason to go with a GFI breaker as opposed to all GFI devices for the reason you mention.