Oven wiring

[1stGrumpy]

Im in the process of finishing up the wiring in my detached garage, all thats left is the run for a electric oven that I plan on using for powder coating purposes.The range portion has been removed. Would 10/2 be sufficent, its about a 30 ft run, with 30 amp breaker?

 

[mrb]

depends on the oven. What does its nameplate say it needs?

 

[1stGrumpy]

depends on the oven. What does its nameplate say it needs?

I was unable to find anything that stated what was required. It has 8 ga. coming out of the unit and was protected by a 60 amp breaker. The range portion was a 4 burner.

 

[Nostraquedeo]

I would look for the model number on the oven, look up the replacement heating element on-line and find the wattage of that element. Once you have that, report back. It'll just be a matter of adding a few watts for the controls after you find that. If it is a brand name oven, the nameplate is typically on the rim of the oven when you open the door.

 

[Norcal]

Im in the process of finishing up the wiring in my detached garage, all thats left is the run for a electric oven that I plan on using for powder coating purposes.The range portion has been removed. Would 10/2 be sufficent, its about a 30 ft run, with 30 amp breaker?

What do you mean the range portion has been removed ? Is this a free standing range? If this is the case 10/2 is forbidden as a range requires a neutral and you must use a 4 -wire receptacle as 3-wire is no longer allowed for new installations. Some cooktops do not need a neutral but ovens do, and 10/2 was never allowed for dryers & cooking equipment.

 

[LoneGunman]

Norcal, he's turning it into a powder coating oven so the top elements have been removed. I'm not saying to go ahead and use the 10/3, I think it's going to need to be larger wire.

To the OP: if you cannot find a tag that states the lower elements wattage you can measure the resistance of the elements and then you can figure out what amperage they are going to pull. If you measure the resistance post your results and I'll tell you what you'll need to run.

 

[Norcal]

Norcal, he's turning it into a powder coating oven so the top elements have been removed. I'm not saying to go ahead and use the 10/3, I think it's going to need to be larger wire.

To the OP: if you cannot find a tag that states the lower elements wattage you can measure the resistance of the elements and then you can figure out what amperage they are going to pull. If you measure the resistance post your results and I'll tell you what you'll need to run.

This is the OP:
Originally Posted by 1stGrumpy
Im in the process of finishing up the wiring in my detached garage, all thats left is the run for a electric oven that I plan on using for powder coating purposes.The range portion has been removed. Would 10/2 be sufficent, its about a 30 ft run, with 30 amp breaker?

My major beef is the use of 10/2 or any 2 conductor cable.

 

[tcianci]

My major beef is the use of 10/2 or any 2 conductor cable.[/QUOTE]

Please elaborate on your beef!

 

[Norcal]

My major beef is the use of 10/2 or any 2 conductor cable.

Please elaborate on your beef![/QUOTE]

Free standing ranges require a neutral, it is not allowed to use a grounding conductor for a neutral which would be the case if 10/2 NM was used, nor are 3-wire feeds allowed to be done in new installations, they are still allowed in existing installations only. A 10/3 cable will prob. work if a 30A circuit breaker is used, a 8/3 will work.

 

[sdowney717]

Would 10/2 be sufficient, its about a 30 ft run, with 30 amp breaker

same as an electric water heater then? water heaters are 10/2.
But I wonder if the elements on the stove consume more power than a water heater.
I would probably use that or 8 gauge depending on how much more it would cost.

How much more would it cost to use conduit and individual wires, then you could add wires and use individual wires to make the runs.

My current stove with range top is a 3 wire 2 hots, one neutral no ground separate ALUMINUM (house built in 1973) and I just recently went from fuses to breakers and the inspector passed it. I did upgrade my dryer to 8/3 and it runs 40 feet.
It is the only aluminum wire in the house. The service cable is aluminum.

 

[1stGrumpy]

This is a slide in oven/cook top made by Whirlpool, I am guessing that it is about 15 years old as that is how old the house is. The cook top sat on top of the oven and had its own controls, removing it ( the cook top ) only required taking out four screws and unplugging the wire. I had thought that since the cook top was no longer in place that it might be possible to use a lighter gauge wire. As I stated in the previous post, it has 8/3 coming out of the oven. It has been a couple of years since I replaced the cook top/oven but as I recall it was hard wired to 8/2. I certainly don't have a problem in using 8/3, as the cost won't be that much greater than 10/3. Do you guys feel that a 30amp breaker would be sufficient? I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback.

 

[Norcal]

A 30A 2 pole will cost the same as a 40A....

 

[Aceman]

I agree with Norcal, I think you should use 8-3 and a 4 wire receptacle.

 

[Norcal]

same as an electric water heater then? water heaters are 10/2.
QUOTE]

A water heater is a 240V load so a neutral is not needed and 10/2 is fine.

 

[1stGrumpy]

Thanks to all ...

 

[oldfart36]

Powdercoatting SURE. Late night pizza's

 

[Berserker]

What do you mean the range portion has been removed ? Is this a free standing range? If this is the case 10/2 is forbidden as a range requires a neutral and you must use a 4 -wire receptacle as 3-wire is no longer allowed for new installations. Some cooktops do not need a neutral but ovens do, and 10/2 was never allowed for dryers & cooking equipment.

The guy is just powder coating. Think we are trying to show a little to much of how much we know. There are lots of dryers running on 10/2. I have ran my mine more on 10/2 then 10/3. When I ran cable at my own house, I went to 10/3.


Agree with the people who said find out the wattage of heating elements. I suspect 30 will be ok. The stove was built to run the oven and the burners.


Another quick and dirty way, would be to go clamp your elec stove now and see how many amps it draws.

Google stove heating elements, just to see what sizes they come in.

 

[Berserker]

I had a Pushmatic breaker panel in my first house. The breaker for the stove didn't work, so I used a extra 30 that was there. Only tripped one time when I had all 4 burners going. Stayed that way for 2 years.

As long as the breaker is smaller then the rating of the wire, your safe.

 

[nehog]

... you can measure the resistance of the elements and then you can figure out what amperage they are going to pull. If you measure the resistance post your results and I'll tell you what you'll need to run.

This is not a good option. The resistance will vary with temperature (all heating elements do so, as do incandescent lamps). The only accurate resistance measurement is to power it to working temperature, measure current and voltage, and compute the resistance (of course, at that point you don't care about resistance anymore since you know current!) A cold resistance measurement will be off (usually low.)

Many oven elements are 2 to 5 KW... If you are going to run both the broiler (top) element, and the bottom (oven) element at the same time, take that into consideration. Not sure there is any advantage in doing that however.

 

[Berserker]

You may be able to look up your model stove and get the specs on it. On my stove I can't run the oven and broiler, I don't think.

 

[Motofixxer]

If your wiring will be considered permanent. I think it's best to upsize if unsure. You may change the unit in the future and you don't want to have to redo it. I would think 8-3 or 6-3 would be just fine. I think the code here says 6-3 is required for the average range. But I could be wrong. And be careful asking an electrician.
Before I wired my new shop. I consulted an electrician I ran into in a parking lot. Told him my setup\plans. Asked what he recommended or would do. Approx 100' and a 50-60a subpanel. He says you should have no problem with 10-3. I said Umm yeah ok. Thanks for your time.

 

[Berserker]

#8 copper, or 6 AL for ranges. But its not like he is cooking dinner in his garage.

 

[Aceman]

He probably figured out his wiring a year ago when he posted this....

 

[Berserker]

Ha. It would be nice if he updated. It is nice to know what people did and how it worked out.

 

[Motofixxer]

#8 copper, or 6 AL for ranges. But its not like he is cooking dinner in his garage.

No he won't be cooking dinner using 100% of THAT oven. But what happens 1-2 years down the road when he decides that he enjoys powder coating and can make money at it. Then he needs to upgrade his oven. OH he can't cuz he wired it too low. I personally have never heard of anyone downsizing a powder coating oven, it's always an upgrade. Plan and expect to upgrade it.

 

[Berserker]

He could have three more kids and need a bigger house too.

I would price out the difference in 8 and 10, and how much work it would be to run the cable in the future.

What I have been getting at, is most likely 30 amps will run that oven just fine. I ran an oven and burners on 30 for 2 years and only tripped on time. I wasn't using the oven, but all 4 burners on high.

 

[jinotown]

A standard range oven will only use around 15 to 18 amps with both bake and broil units on. 10 gauge will be fine as long as you do not start using the top burners along with it. If I was going to the trouble of running a whole new line I would go bigger. You never know what you might want to plug in later...

 

[Milton Shaw]

A lot of stoves use the neutral to carry current. GE older stoves in bake had 240 volt on bottom element and 120 on upper element. This gave top browning during bake cycle. The whirlpool stoves did not have this feature and biscuits were half the rise that a GE stove gave. Newer stoves and ovens use relays to cycle between bake and broil element during the bake cycle to do this 70% bake time 20% broil time. The bake element would stay red and the broil element would not be red but would burn the stuffing out of you. It has to be 4 wire with individual neutral and ground and two hots.

 

[ddawg16]

This is not a good option. The resistance will vary with temperature (all heating elements do so, as do incandescent lamps). The only accurate resistance measurement is to power it to working temperature, measure current and voltage, and compute the resistance (of course, at that point you don't care about resistance anymore since you know current!) A cold resistance measurement will be off (usually low.)

If you can't find the rating....this is the only safe way to know.....in case your thinking of going cheap...go look at the recent thread regarding a garage that burned down.

Come on....we are talking maybe $20 more? For something that is going to get a lot of use? That $20 is going to sound real cheap the first time something goes wrong.