Overbuilding a hitch mount Motorcycle carrier

[Robert Haas]

Oh well, btw, how much were they?

I'm considering a small 12' enclosed trailer. $2200-$2800 depending on features

The Production units went for $500 a piece, painted $425 raw.

The one off units that had flush mount LED lighting and other custom features like built in tie downs and cut down to fit scooters were as much as $1200.

The closest thing Ihave seen to what I built is the Versa Haulers. In fact when people call me up looking for one of my haulers I send them to look at the Versa's

 

[greenlizard]

I like it. A good alternative to keeping up with a trailer and a nice design, too.

 

[gorilla]

Oh It has been bothering me, how exactly would a formal education sound anyway?

Would it sound like a blow hard know it all that gives opinions on products they have never seen?

Just wonderin

It would look like a engineering analysis showing the effect of the load on the vehicle and the loads on the attachment points. This needs to be done by someone with a formal education in engineering if not you're just guessing.

 

[UGLYTRUK]

Another forum said he broke the factory hitch with a Motorcycle carrier, same as mine, and he swapped it out for a Reese or similar. I'll check the junkyard today, lots of similar teeruks, and mine looks strong... Hmmm...

I will call on this now, made in Saskatchewan

http://www.orcatrailers.com/orcapricingandextras.html

 

[Robert Haas]

It would look like a engineering analysis showing the effect of the load on the vehicle and the loads on the attachment points. This needs to be done by someone with a formal education in engineering if not you're just guessing.

Are you aware of the industry standards of "mutual design"?

Of course I have to guess.

Here is how you can do that and sleep like a baby at night.

Overbuild.

Manufacturers put class IV hitches on vehicles expecting the users to comply with the limits set forth, however they also dial in a substantial amount of overbuild knowing the same users will not have access to a scale so what ever they hook to it will be a best guess on their part.

Suggesting that everyone should have a product analyzed, tested and signed off by an engineer may sound good, problems is who is going to pay for it?

That mentality would close every fab shop in the country.

So what do we do?

We use common sense, we perfect our techniques and use industry standards that were engineered. We overbuild rather than under-build to cover our asses. In the end we can be creative and deliver small runs of products that meet the requirements of our customers and keep our electric bills paid.

 

[UGLYTRUK]

Thanks for the shot of common sense Mr Haas

 

[bczygan]

When you "overbuild", you take function away from a product and in many cases, make it more prone to breakage or damage or failure.

Good engineering makes structure that is appropriate in every part. Every part that is "overbuilt" in a structure, then requires that the other parts be overbuilt to accommodate it. All of this limits the effective capability of the item.

That said, your design has some interesting parts. I would examine it and do stress analysis on it though, to find out exactly what you have. That would identify the weakest point, and also where there is excess, unneeded material. Why wouldn't you, as the designer, want to know exactly what was what?

From a design standpoint, I would work to develop a version that allowed ground level loading and then a crank up to travel height. Not everyone has the strength or dexterity to use a ramp.

Bill

 

[Wardster]

From what I am reading here it doesn't look like anyone is debating that what you've made is of superior quality and certainly overbuilt. The issue, at least from my perspective, is that I don't think anyone should intentionally exceed the capacity of the OEM/aftermarket hitch, especially when there are plenty of manufacturers out there that offer aftermarket options for greater capacities. For the single bike unit, it looks close enough to the typical ball location that the published tongue weight would be sufficient. That capacity, however, drop significantly and rather quickly the longer the moment arm gets.

 

[Robert Haas]

these type of haulers are designed for a class IV and the with a 300 LB bike they have a total weight of under 400Lbs. Now the center of that mass is 18" from the face of the receiver.

So I just weighed my Ski boat and the tongue weight 18" back from the ball is over 550Lbs. I have seen Toyota Tacoma's towing the exact same boat and countless 1/2 Ton Domestics.

So let us stop being a pack of alarmists and focus your attention on something that actually should be worried about.

 

[UGLYTRUK]

I was thinking I could weld 2 more 2" female tubes on to either end of my hitch and have 3 mounting points, no rocking, and that would spread the load. Of course I would add two male tubes to the carrier. I wish I had the extra funds for a nice aerodynamic trailer. The riveted box ones are just that, a box, and heavier too I would imagine

 

[Bondo]

I was thinking I could weld 2 more 2" female tubes on to either end of my hitch and have 3 mounting points, no rocking, and that would spread the load. Of course I would add two male tubes to the carrier. I wish I had the extra funds for a nice aerodynamic trailer. The riveted box ones are just that, a box, and heavier too I would imagine

Ayuh,.... Yer still gonna be hangin' Way to much weight Way to far back, for a 1/2 ton pickup,....

A full dressed Harley is gonna take a trailer behind yer 1/2 ton truck,....

 

[Robert Haas]

Ayuh,.... Yer still gonna be hangin' Way to much weight Way to far back, for a 1/2 ton pickup,....

A full dressed Harley is gonna take a trailer behind yer 1/2 ton truck,....

I agree, a 1/2 Ton truck should not use a hitch mounted hauler to carry an 800Lb bike.

 

[hh76]

these type of haulers are designed for a class IV and the with a 300 LB bike they have a total weight of under 400Lbs. Now the center of that mass is 18" from the face of the receiver.

So I just weighed my Ski boat and the tongue weight 18" back from the ball is over 550Lbs. I have seen Toyota Tacoma's towing the exact same boat and countless 1/2 Ton Domestics.

So let us stop being a pack of alarmists and focus your attention on something that actually should be worried about.

Using a ball hitch breaks the moment arm, meaning that a trailer doesn't act like a long lever behind the ball.

I'm not saying your design is faulty, just be careful. If I were selling these, I'd want to be confident in their weight limits.

 

[kbs2244]

My concern with hitch mounts carrying any kind of weight has always been more over the possibly of them getting a "twisting" motion going.
Right side up, left side down, then back and forth.

Is there any research into this?
Dampeners of some kind?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Ill stick with hauling bikes in back of van or a truck myself.

 

[Robert Haas]

Using a ball hitch breaks the moment arm, meaning that a trailer doesn't act like a long lever behind the ball.

I'm not saying your design is faulty, just be careful. If I were selling these, I'd want to be confident in their weight limits.

Well don't lose any sleep over it, I won't.

These things have been sold and used by the millions. If a person overloads one, or drives a neglected or damaged vehicle and one of these type devises was installed,....the outcome could be dire.

Not my job to save the idiots. Darwin taught me that.

The rest of you folks that are (IMHO) a bunch of arm chair failure analysis engineers...I did not ask you for permission or approval of my design.

If you have nothing but doom and gloom in your comments. save your breath. Go try to save the world somewhere else.

 

[Whykurt]

Very nice! I was searching for plans so I could build my own. Did you draw up any plans for this that you might be willing to share? I really like the slide in ramp, very ingenious!

Kurt Whynaucht

 

[eeyore1]

I needed to do this on a class a motor home f53 chassis, so I took off the hitch and added two more receivers to the outer sides of the frame mounts so now I have 3 support points it is all bolted back on to the motor home frame using original holes . I have two large u clamps that hold the rim to the ramp plus straps and have 10,000 miles without any problems.

 

[kwb]

Oh It has been bothering me, how exactly would a formal education sound anyway?

Would it sound like a blow hard know it all that gives opinions on products they have never seen?

Just wonderin

Well it wouldn't ask a question about tensile strength of a material in the context of a bending/moment discussion. - Tensile strength of a material is independent of geometry.

I am all for barnyard engineering to "get-r-done" and especially for your own consumption. When you are selling to the public and saying you are overbilt - well frankly you have nothing to support that statement. Without a real live engineering analysis to correlate a bike weight to a vehicle hitch rating you are just making feel good statements based on way too limited of a sample size.

 

[370]

This thread is EXACTLY why I hate dealing with engineers. They think they know everything about everything. When in reality most couldn't build a bird house or a mail box post. Get over yourselves. Yes you paid way too much for an education. No reason to force that on everyone you meet.

 

[Wesley J]

This thread is EXACTLY why I hate dealing with engineers. They think they know everything about everything. When in reality most couldn't build a bird house or a mail box post. Get over yourselves. Yes you paid way too much for an education. No reason to force that on everyone you meet.

Oh my dear dog this thread is full of willful ignorance!

Even a 1st year Engineering student can tell you that the 4 bike carrier is super dangerous. 4-250 lb bikes would result in a moment of 3-4000 ft-lbs on a receiver designed for 1/4 of that. Wow.

Yes I are an Engimaneer but I dont go around telling people how to spell. Same reason you guys shouldn't tell people to "overbuild" something and then attach it to a system you have no understanding of.

PS, your fab skills are great, the implementation is what is in question here.

 

[Robert Haas]

Wow, you think we actually would hang 4 off any receiver?

You might be educated, but you are kind of an idiot.

 

[firworks]

People don't understand that you were giving a demonstration to show it was strong not to say that it was the normal operation of the carrier. It makes me wonder if people saw that Jean Claude Van Damme commercial where he does the splits between trucks and started sending him angry messages. "JVD that is NOT a safe way to travel by truck. They have seats for a reason with SEATBELTS! I know that you are a martial artist and actor and not an automotive safety technician but in the case of an accident you will not be protected while doing the splits between two trucks."

View media item 78617

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Mr Haas my hat is off to you. Your fab skills are excellent. The engineers have no clue what works in the real world and just expound theorie. I have dealt with them all my life and they can and do design total garbage when not held accountable. Good luck with your projects and keep posting. It has been a while since I laughed this hard.

 

[apollo11]

Wow, you think we actually would hang 4 off any receiver?

You might be educated, but you are kind of an idiot.

 

[Vimototv]

I own a jeep xj and the usual method to install a reciver is to bolt 6 bolts on the jeep xj frame. I work with big motorcycles i mean heavy bikes. Question is: can i install as the usual way a hitch reciver on my jeep xj as the usyal way using only 3 bolts on each hitch reciver side on the jeep frame, and then load a bmw k1200 lt or a golwing like that without a risk of bolts tear or motorcycle carrier fall?

 

[Htscheg]

Awesome!!

 

[Robert Haas]

I own a jeep xj and the usual method to install a reciver is to bolt 6 bolts on the jeep xj frame. I work with big motorcycles i mean heavy bikes. Question is: can i install as the usual way a hitch reciver on my jeep xj as the usyal way using only 3 bolts on each hitch reciver side on the jeep frame, and then load a bmw k1200 lt or a golwing like that without a risk of bolts tear or motorcycle carrier fall?

No where in your posts did you make any sense. We are all now dumber for reading it. You are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your sole.

 

[PNWguy]

Awesome carrier; thanks for sharing it.

Can you make a 1/2 ton truck do a wheelie with enough Gold Wings on the back? (sorry - I just had to make sure *all* the questions had been asked.)

 

[Robert Haas]

Awesome carrier; thanks for sharing it.

Can you make a 1/2 ton truck do a wheelie with enough Gold Wings on the back? (sorry - I just had to make sure *all* the questions had been asked.)

yes

 

[moonpool145]

How did I miss this thread for so long? Just classic. See, but all you gots to do is add cup holders. That way you have a nice place to put your beer as you are loading the bikes. Before you do that, I would suggest running this through Ansys to make sure the weight of the beer does not affect the structural integrity. Wait, what am I saying? Beer fixes everything, it will be fine.

Great design by the way. As a former biker (sadly), I have used the cheap versions of this many times and while they worked OK, I always wanted more. If I was still riding, I would pick one of yours up for sure.

The peanut gallery always cracks me up.

 

[customh]

I feel the need to post saying I enjoyed reading this thread also.
-signed mechanic working-on-engineering-degree-who-hopes-he-won't-forget-the-real-world-with-B.S.M.E.- behind-his-name

 

[Robert Haas]

I have the greatest respect in the world for engineers.

Problem is engineers typically have no respect for technicians.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Great carrier indeed.
For all the haters, please see my sig line.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Problem is engineers typically have no respect for technicians.

I'm sure there are some engineers who are like that, but certainly not all of us.

 

[Dirt_Racer41]

Well I took advantage of the fact that each one of these I built had a class IV receiver in them and figured I could just haul as many bike as I like.

I literally laughed at loud at this reply!

 

[zmotorsports]

I have the greatest respect in the world for engineers.

Problem is engineers typically have no respect for technicians.

Ain't that the truth?

I don't want to get on a hate engineers bandwagon here, as I've worked with many engineers during my 30-year career as an industrial maintenance mechanic. Many were great people that had a wealth of knowledge AND real world experience from the repair and maintenance side of the coin. These guys really stood out and were actual problem solvers and I worked very well with them.

Then there were the ones with the attitudes that thought because of that piece of paper they knew everything and theory was all that mattered. They were the guys who were under the belief that it was there way or no way and they were never wrong. These guys usually didn't last long and they helped themselves to pursue other places of employment.

This is one of the reasons I hesitate to post some of my projects and experiences because a person verbally gets the **** beat out of them from people who have nothing better to do than sit behind a keyboard and criticize. Think of where we would be in the world if no one ever did anything for fear of ridicule or failing.

I'll bet your sorry you posted your carrier now aren't you Robert?

 

[mike93lx]

I'll bet your sorry you posted your carrier now aren't you Robert?

Something tells me he doesn't give a ****, nor should he.

 

[Robert Haas]

I'm an old man, I have thick skin and pretty much don't get too excited about much of anything.

I do get a little perturbed when some over educated under-experienced self proclaimed expert insinuates I would put innocent people at risk. I have a big heart and a small brain so the mere concept that I would hurt somebody due to my own ignorance scares me. I deal with that by being pretty solid on how I put something together and it kind of shows in my work.

 

[zmotorsports]

I'm an old man, I have thick skin and pretty much don't get too excited about much of anything.

I do get a little perturbed when some over educated under-experienced self proclaimed expert insinuates I would put innocent people at risk. I have a big heart and a small brain so the mere concept that I would hurt somebody due to my own ignorance scares me. I deal with that by being pretty solid on how I put something together and it kind of shows in my work.

I completely agree Robert.

I feel kind of bad about my above comments, I had them aimed more specifically at engineers but that isn't a fair statement, it can go for most anyone. My son is a ME and is one of the most humble young men I know yet very intelligent and has years of hands on experience in addition to his college education. That may be one of the reasons he is so respected at his place of employment and has moved up so quickly.

One thing that bothers me is when people who have not done anything to really speak of in life start criticizing those that have done much. I have family members and co-workers that criticize most everything I do yet haven't personally done even a fraction of what I've accomplished in my short career. It seems to be even easier for people to point out everyone else's faults from behind a keyboard and monitor than in person, but some don't seem to have a problem in person either.

Rant over, sorry to hijack.