Overdoing Air Drops and Regulator/Separators

[PurdueSD]

Hey fellas, I over did my air drops and my last shop and had the the most awesome dry air. So i plan to overdo it again at the new shop. Black pipe 3/4" main trunk, 1/2" drops coming 180 up and down off the main. I had drip legs and extra valves everywhere and it worked incredible.

Ive been looking for 1/2" regulator separators and I am not finding any good deals this time around. I need 3 regulators for my initial setup and i'm considering skipping the separators this go round. I NEVER had any water to drain in the separator at my last shop, because i think the pipe design was doing its job. Anybody have any input?

Heres the setup i had before...

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[vavet]

I'm starting to look into plumbing air in my garage, so I have some questions - not sharpshooting you.

You mention black pipe...but that looks like galvanized. Are these the same thing? Weird light effect in the photo?

What's the purpose of the up and down off the main trunk before it goes into the vertical? Seems like you'd want any condensed moisture to go into the vertical so you can drain it out at the bottom of the vertical.

Do you need a separator at each vertical? Could you get away with one where the compressor connects to the trunk line? Or does the air need a chance to cool/let water condense before it does much good?

 

[PurdueSD]

I'm starting to look into plumbing air in my garage, so I have some questions - not sharpshooting you.

You mention black pipe...but that looks like galvanized. Are these the same thing? Weird light effect in the photo?

No, i painted it gray.

What's the purpose of the up and down off the main trunk before it goes into the vertical? Seems like you'd want any condensed moisture to go into the vertical so you can drain it out at the bottom of the vertical.

No, my main line slopes back to a drip leg at the compressor. If the T comes off the bottom of the main line, any condensate up stream of the drop, ends up draining into your drop.

Do you need a separator at each vertical? Could you get away with one where the compressor connects to the trunk line? Or does the air need a chance to cool/let water condense before it does much good?

You answered your own Question.

 

[Falcon67]

I use a couple of portable separator/regulators. I use quick connects on the back side and just plug one in where I need it.

>Do you need a separator at each vertical?
I use both - a "chiller" of sorts at the compressor and drip legs on every drop. I did not do the up and over like the OP did, just didn't want to do the extra plumbing. But that does help keep any condensate in the main line, which should be sloped to an end point for drainage. I do not capture any water in my separators at the ports, so the hack job chiller is doing well enough.

 

[garagelogician]

I use a couple of portable separator/regulators. I use quick connects on the back side and just plug one in where I need it.

>Do you need a separator at each vertical?
I use both - a "chiller" of sorts at the compressor and drip legs on every drop. I did not do the up and over like the OP did, just didn't want to do the extra plumbing. But that does help keep any condensate in the main line, which should be sloped to an end point for drainage. I do not capture any water in my separators at the ports, so the hack job chiller is doing well enough.

Any details on this "chiller?"

 

[matt_i]

Nice design on the system! I would just look around for good used filter regulators.

 

[dave_dj1]

Hey fellas, I over did my air drops and my last shop and had the the most awesome dry air. So i plan to overdo it again at the new shop. Black pipe 3/4" main trunk, 1/2" drops coming 180 up and down off the main. I had drip legs and extra valves everywhere and it worked incredible.

Ive been looking for 1/2" regulator separators and I am not finding any good deals this time around. I need 3 regulators for my initial setup and i'm considering skipping the separators this go round. I NEVER had any water to drain in the separator at my last shop, because i think the pipe design was doing its job. Anybody have any input?

Heres the setup i had before...

View media item 80982
View media item 80980
View media item 80981

That looks great and probably works great!

 

[Marctrees]

Perdue -

Keep in mind that if you are talking about the bowl w drain type of separators (like the reg/sep combo you show). that they NEED to be sized to the cfm usage to drop out the water properly.

If you get one too big, the water will not drop out properly.

The air flow needs to be a certain minimum velocity to function, if it's bigger velocity is slower, so does not function.


Most other filters this is not the case .. over size is good.

Later tonight I'll try to find and add a link.

Marc

 

[Lelandwelds]

I did not do the up and over like the OP did, just didn't want to do the extra plumbing. But that does help keep any condensate in the main line, which should be sloped to an end point for drainage. I do not capture any water in my separators . . . doing well enough.

Perdue -

Keep in mind that if you are talking about the bowl w drain type of separators (like the reg/sep combo you show). that they NEED to be sized to the cfm usage to drop out the water properly.

If you get one too big, the water will not drop out properly.

The air flow needs to be a certain minimum velocity to function, if it's bigger velocity is slower, so does not function.


Most other filters this is not the case .. over size is good.

I don't plan on doing the top exit from the loop. 3/4 pipe in a loop is probably enough overkill. I think I might polish up some import SS crosses and paint some black pipe station drops. I think the rest is Gonna be PEX B except the compressor outlet.

The caution about sizing really goes for coalescing filters. My filter plan is pretty basic and all in one spot at the entry point but I may use two very different compressor and storage plans. Most of the time I really just barely need a compressor. Until, I need a real compressor.

A couple guys have compressor relays and air operated ball valves that I am anxious to try.

 

[7635tools]

Is there any reason why you shouldn’t use galvanized pipe for air lines. Seems to me galvanized pipe wouldn’t rust up like black pipe.


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[Lelandwelds]

Is there any reason why you shouldn’t use galvanized pipe for air lines. Seems to me galvanized pipe wouldn’t rust up like black pipe.


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The galvanizing flakes off. It is nothing like PVC for air, oily BP for Oxygen, wet rubber for argon, or copper for acetylene.

Thinking back, BP only rusts in the smaller sizes where it sags and doesn't drain.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Is there any reason why you shouldn’t use galvanized pipe for air lines. Seems to me galvanized pipe wouldn’t rust up like black pipe.

They say not to because the galvanized coating can flake, then potentially plug up something.

 

[PurdueSD]

Perdue -

Keep in mind that if you are talking about the bowl w drain type of separators (like the reg/sep combo you show). that they NEED to be sized to the cfm usage to drop out the water properly.

If you get one too big, the water will not drop out properly.

The air flow needs to be a certain minimum velocity to function, if it's bigger velocity is slower, so does not function.


Most other filters this is not the case .. over size is good.

Later tonight I'll try to find and add a link.

Marc

Interesting, i haven’t heard of this before. My main usage will be air tools, die grinders etc. I think my compressor is a quincy qt-5 and puts out about 18 cfm. Looking forward to seeing your link! I was just looking for one capable of 150 psi that had 3/4 inlets and auto bleed off. Thanks!

 

[Nivekdodge]

That is not overdone, It's done right. When Plumbers do airlines they never think there's going to be water. Good Job

 

[2slow]

I have to agree with Nivekdodge. That job was done right for dry air.

I did something similar in my first shop except instead of a perimeter loop, I did a central straight run and ran off it to the left and right. I also used galvanized and never had a flaking problem, but have read about it. In that install I found the drops took out almost all the water and there was very little left for the separators. Get the air cool to condense the water, and than take advantage of inertial with the vertical take offs, and Ts that turn up to keep the water out of your tools.

My current shop has 3/4" Type L Copper pipe sweat together. The shop has two rooms so there are two loops joined together overhead (Like a digital number 8) sloped to a drain. All taps come out the top of the line, and T off and turn up before heading to the Filter / regulators. I have dry air, and so will PurdueSD. Sweat together copper minimizes leaks and enables easy changes / additions.










-Joe

 

[Marctrees]

Perdue - I am sorry, I can't find the link I wanted.. and need to get to bed.

Google it, and I'm pretty sure you will find sizing info for the water seperators and info on importance of sizing to a cfm range you will be using.,... and NOT oversizing.

IIRC, my Amflo filter/separator w 3/8" ports is rated for like 10 - 40 cfm or something.

Will be watching this thread. Marc

 

[buildyourown]

If anybody is looking at doing a complex system out of threaded pipe I would call around and look for a low overhead plumber. I found a guy to do my gas lines that gave me a screaming deal. He banged it out in a day and his material costs were so much better than mine it was a no brainer. Threaded pipe ***** without the right tools and experience. Worth paying for sometimes.

 

[MattT]

With black, or galv, pipe you don't want to skip the filters even if the air is "dry". If you want to keep the cost down using filters instead of filter regulators should save some money. IIRC a filter is about half the cost of a filter regulator.