Overhead hoist ideas... to many options

[Ljforrist]

Hello all,
I’m new to the forum although I’ve read a million post on here before. I have a farm shop that I am wanting to install an overhead hoist. Looking to use it for pulling engines and lifting things in and out of my truck. I have a 4x8 I beam hanging around that is 19’ long and I was hosting to use that as a beam to run a trolly on. My building is constructed from a bunch of 4” 1/4 wall pipe with three posts and a top beam on each side wall and three posts and a beam for the center ridge. Sitting on top of these are 2x6 wood rafters. I have each side set up as a “bay”.
So my thoughts are:
I could mount the I beam between the center post for the ridge an side wall and have a trolly with Hoist that would be in the middle of the bay and move from side to side within that bay. Would have good weight varying capacity but would not be as useful pulling an engine since you would have to role the vehicle backwards as you lift.

I could mount the I beam running down the center of one of the bays by attaching directly to the rafters. I would have to make wedges that are the same slope as the roof so the I beam sat level. Might not be able to hold as much weight but would be bolted to 12+ rafters to spread out and carry the load. Would allow for lifting and rolling front to back within that bay.

I would like to fashion the I beam into a cantilever jib crane that attached to the center post of the building. If I use a portion is the i beam as an upright I could fix it to that center post in several places to spread out the load and torsion that the boom will put on it. If I were to make the boom 10 feet I could cover a lot of both bays. I would like to be able to lift 1000lbs but an not sure of how well that center post will handle the thrust against it. It is welded to the ridge beam of the building and that ridge beam is screwed to every rafter that are also screwed to the upper beams of the outside walls. The jib boom would offer the most mobility but how limited would I be on the weight it could carry

Any thoughts would be welcome. What would be the best route while still being as frugal as possible?

 

[MushCreek]

When I had a machine shop, I built a rolling A-frame. It was very handy, and of course could be moved. Mine had telescoping uprights so I could get it out through the overhead door, which was lower. The price of steel has really gone up in recent years, unless you have a place where you can get a bargain.

Attaching an I-beam to the existing building or post worries me when you're talking 1,000 lbs.

 

[Ljforrist]

I had thought about that option but have stayed away from it because it takes up so much space, an if I wand to roll it outside it’s going to be a pain moving it around in the gravel. I’m using a heavy Chet picker now and I don’t even like trying to stir and roll that thing around. I think I am really leaning on mounting the beam to the rafters.

I’m trying to figure what kind of load I could pick with a 19’ long I beam that was was being carried on 15 rafters. Some quick math says that 1000 lbs spread across that would be the equivalent of around 4lbs per quart foot which is well within reason. Or if I think about it another way, it would be 80lbs per rafter. Seems doable?

 

[CraigStu]

I am not sure I follow what you are thinking but will throw this idea in anyway. Someone here had a similar question a couple months ago. One answer I liked was hang your beam on the ceiling in which ever way you think is best. Then make up two support posts that are easy to make a small height adjustment. You could even go w/ these if they come in the right length.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D2QUZVI/?tag=atomicindus08-20
When you need to use the hoist walk a support over to each end and adjust it tight.

 

[u2slow]

I bought a $500 offshore 1-ton gantry crane on casters. Saving my back now is worth more.

Setting up a permanent hoisting beam is a ways down the road yet... after the mezzanine.

 

[MattT]

I’m trying to figure what kind of load I could pick with a 19’ long I beam that was was being carried on 15 rafters. Some quick math says that 1000 lbs spread across that would be the equivalent of around 4lbs per quart foot which is well within reason. Or if I think about it another way, it would be 80lbs per rafter. Seems doable?

Two problems with your quick math. First you don't look to be including the weight of the beam or the trolley and hoist. Mounting hardware might weigh a fair amount too.

Second the weight might be evenly distributed on each rafter when your load is in the center of the beam. It defintely won't be when it's out toward one of the ends.

4" pole sounds too light for a cantilever as well. I reckon running between poles is your only good/safe option, and I wouldn't even do that without figuring how much weight they're already supporting. Include snow load if applicable.

 

[Ljforrist]

Two problems with your quick math. First you don't look to be including the weight of the beam or the trolley and hoist. Mounting hardware might weigh a fair amount too.

Second the weight might be evenly distributed on each rafter when your load is in the center of the beam. It defintely won't be when it's out toward one of the ends.

4" pole sounds too light for a cantilever as well. I reckon running between poles is your only good/safe option, and I wouldn't even do that without figuring how much weight they're already supporting. Include snow load if applicable.

I had thought about both of these, beam and trolly will certainly make up a few hundred pounds but total weight per foot wouldn’t be too bad.

Now the uneven distribution of weight when the trolly is to one end or the other is more concerning to me. I might be able to mitigate this by ending the trolly cannot move to the last three feet of the beam? That would still have probably twice the weight per rafter as when the load is centered. Might be a little sketchy?

 

[Ljforrist]

I am not sure I follow what you are thinking but will throw this idea in anyway. Someone here had a similar question a couple months ago. One answer I liked was hang your beam on the ceiling in which ever way you think is best. Then make up two support posts that are easy to make a small height adjustment. You could even go w/ these if they come in the right length.

When you need to use the hoist walk a support over to each end and adjust it tight.

Not a bad idea but if I were to use the beam in the center of the bay, in line with and centered above the vehicle below, I wouldn’t be able to pu the prop rod in place because the vehicle would be parked there.
If I put them on either side of the vehicle, I have the same challenge of the beam only allowing to side to side motion on the trolly, not very conducive to pulling an engine forward.

 

[BigGarage]

Here's an idea from a few months ago

Dennis

 

[iSpark]

I plan on doing something similar to what Scott did.
No load on the roof.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5457152&postcount=426

 

[Ljforrist]

Here's an idea from a few months ago

Dennis

Couple of caster wheels on the base of the ladders and I would be in businesses

 

[My Old Tools]

I can't help much with engineering yours. Mine was designed into the center ridge of my building. I can tell you that you'll love it and no matter which way you run the beam, sooner or later you'll need to go the other direction.

 

[tarmy]

Here is mine...

 

[Ljforrist]

Here is mine...

I like the look of this. Did you have any additional bracing or just attached to trusses? I see there is a one ton hoist on there. How much do you pick with it?

 

[sberry]

This could have 1 end mounted to a center pole too. My shop is large, I made A frame so it could move but did that for 1 job 25 years ago and hasn't moved substantially since. I have a cherry picker for most other stuff.

 

[sberry]

Here is mine...

That is quite a beam.

 

[matt_i]

With your tube-post frame construction you have a good start right there.

Need a few more dimensions or I skimmed too fast but what about acquiring a couple more Ibeams (do you have a scrapyard nearby?) and build a bridge system that can service most of a "bay" (essentially you'd need 4 columns, you connect two of them with I-beam "runway rails". With two trolleys hang the bridge beam/bridge rail, and then a 3rd trolley for the hoist.

I'm working on installing a jib crane into my shop at present. Its a 1/4 ton capacity (500 lbs at the tip) with a 12 foot arm and the I-beam is an S8 cross section (8" tall). But the center post is a 10-3/4" diameter x 1/4" wall tube. There are 3 bearings, a very large single tapered roller cup & cone, then two 3" diameter rollers that roll around the OD of the tube, plus a trapezoidal piece that connects everything together.

So that gives you some idea of the scale of what the column of a jib crane has to be. If you want to goto 1000 lbs @ 19ft span you're probably going to be in the 18" dia x thickwall pipe.

We haven't even started on the foundation yet. The jib crane above is going to require a 3' deep x 4' x 4' (2 cu yard) cutout in the shop's floor (fill back with concrete with threaded studs embedded deep into the 'cube'. You could easily be into a 6' square x 4-5' deep hole to be dug and filled with concrete for a long-span jib.

In general, anything cantilevered requires many more times the material for a structure as compared to something that's double-supported.

How's your ability to cut & weld?

 

[sberry]

Yes, some of this is why I post a pic of that rotator above. It covers a good little of the work area, lets it be setup for heavy unload. lets it move laterally somewhat and all the load is on the floor. Heavy duty. Can actually rig it out of the way against the wall. We made the end a tool cart location and shelf, its wide enough can work under it and was really tailored to this bay. All the hardline tools serve the tractor bay and the hoist bay.

 

[Ljforrist]

Yes, some of this is why I post a pic of that rotator above. It covers a good little of the work area, lets it be setup for heavy unload. lets it move laterally somewhat and all the load is on the floor. Heavy duty. Can actually rig it out of the way against the wall. We made the end a tool cart location and shelf, its wide enough can work under it and was really tailored to this bay. All the hardline tools serve the tractor bay and the hoist bay.

I really like the look of the rotator. I had thought about that when I started but kind of moved away from the idea because I thought the rolling end would be in the way a bunch or I would always have something in the way of it. Maybe that is more of a problem with how clean I keep the shop. When im not using it, i can keep it pointed between the doors in the middle of the two bays.

I had done a bunch of searching to find images for one like this but fell short. Maybe i don't know what to call it? rotating gantry? Seeing yours in the picture is moving my thought back in that direction. What do you figure the lift capacity is on it? how hard is it to roll under load?

 

[Ljforrist]

With your tube-post frame construction you have a good start right there.

Need a few more dimensions or I skimmed too fast but what about acquiring a couple more Ibeams (do you have a scrapyard nearby?) and build a bridge system that can service most of a "bay" (essentially you'd need 4 columns, you connect two of them with I-beam "runway rails". With two trolleys hang the bridge beam/bridge rail, and then a 3rd trolley for the hoist.

I'm working on installing a jib crane into my shop at present. Its a 1/4 ton capacity (500 lbs at the tip) with a 12 foot arm and the I-beam is an S8 cross section (8" tall). But the center post is a 10-3/4" diameter x 1/4" wall tube. There are 3 bearings, a very large single tapered roller cup & cone, then two 3" diameter rollers that roll around the OD of the tube, plus a trapezoidal piece that connects everything together.

So that gives you some idea of the scale of what the column of a jib crane has to be. If you want to goto 1000 lbs @ 19ft span you're probably going to be in the 18" dia x thickwall pipe.

We haven't even started on the foundation yet. The jib crane above is going to require a 3' deep x 4' x 4' (2 cu yard) cutout in the shop's floor (fill back with concrete with threaded studs embedded deep into the 'cube'. You could easily be into a 6' square x 4-5' deep hole to be dug and filled with concrete for a long-span jib.

In general, anything cantilevered requires many more times the material for a structure as compared to something that's double-supported.

How's your ability to cut & weld?

A Jib would be great but i think it just isn't going to work for me. If you look up at some of the previous posts I was going to limit length of the jib to maybe 10 feet. I was hoping that with the limited boom length and the fact that the top of my post is structural mounted to the roof, that the pull and thrust against the post would be handled enough that I could get away without having the huge post size and huge footing. The thought of having the entire building come down on me as i pull and engine out of a diesel pickup is making me think i better just do something else.

Bridge crane would be awesome, I am hesitant to think that i ma going to be able to find much "sprap" i beam that is long enough to run the the length of the bays. Maybe I should go to the scrap yard before I write it off.

as far as the dimensions go. The total building is 28X32. The "bays" are 14' by 32' each. their is a mezzanine above the back half of one bay and is 7' off the ground with the stairs up to it at the back wall of the other bay. The rest of the building is open up to the rafters with the side wall height at 11'6 and the ridge pole at 15'6.

 

[tarmy]

I like the look of this. Did you have any additional bracing or just attached to trusses? I see there is a one ton hoist on there. How much do you pick with it?

I use it for lifting things in and out of the pick up and dump trailer. The main reason I installed was to move my two 800-lbs plus waverunners off the road trailer and onto service dollies I made.

That beam is 20’ long. It is anchored to each 2x12 truss (which are 32’ long) by two bolts. I welded a 1/4” 4” wide flange for each truss to the top of the beam. On every fourth truss there is a 4’ long flange to spread the weight out along the truss.

It had almost no deflection with a half ton on it, can roll trolley easy with one hand. Took a whole day of cribbing/jacking to get it up 10’...and dead level.

 

[Ljforrist]

I use it for lifting things in and out of the pick up and dump trailer. The main reason I installed was to move my two 800-lbs plus waverunners off the road trailer and onto service dollies I made.

That beam is 20’ long. It is anchored to each 2x12 truss (which are 32’ long) by two bolts. I welded a 1/4” 4” wide flange for each truss to the top of the beam. On every fourth truss there is a 4’ long flange to spread the weight out along the truss.

It had almost no deflection with a half ton on it, can roll trolley easy with one hand. Took a whole day of cribbing/jacking to get it up 10’...and dead level.

Thanks for the input. So are the bottom or your Trusses 2x12's and is that where it is attached? How far apart are your trusses? What was the process you did for leveling? was the ceiling out of level when you started?

 

[brownbagg]

i like the one, it wasnt home made but factory, install upright and rails inside the building, indepent from the bldg and a rail ran on it. like a big frame inside the bldg

 

[tarmy]

Thanks for the input. So are the bottom or your Trusses 2x12's and is that where it is attached? How far apart are your trusses? What was the process you did for leveling? was the ceiling out of level when you started?

The bottom of the truss is a 2x12...

They are 16”oc

The ceiling was close to level...but I wanted the beam exactly level so the load would not roll when released...

 

[PNWguy]

Here's an idea from a few months ago

Dennis

Awesome!

 

[jmarkwolf]

A rotating gantry crane might be worthy of some consideration.

I've seen pics of these cranes where one post is stationary but free to "spin", and the other post is on wheels and free to swing in an arc. The difference between this idea and a typical jib crane is that it's supported at both ends, and not relying a super strong post at one end.

 

[Ljforrist]

So I have decided that the pivoting gantry is going to be the best option for me, plus outside of the trolly and hoist, I think I have all the materials I will need. I am going to see about starting a build tread I will post the link to it here one I get up and running.


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[matt_i]

I think a successful outboard supported jib crane needs very accurate concrete so it doesn't jam or the wheels float off the ground. Also one should size the swivel casters as if the total rated load was picked up split between those two wheels.

 

[Ljforrist]

I think a successful outboard supported jib crane needs very accurate concrete so it doesn't jam or the wheels float off the ground. Also one should size the swivel casters as if the total rated load was picked up split between those two wheels.

I can say that my concrete is not that precise, because of the clowns that poured it(I’m the head clown). With that said, I don’t think the binding will be much issue. I plan to make my pivot on the center post by using a larger diameter pipe around my 4” center post. May cut it in half then flanges added to bolt back together with it sitting on a stationary base that is clapped or bolted onto the pipe. I envision there being enough play in that joint that the full weight of the outer end would be on the ground all the time and it wouldn’t matter if it were an inch high or an inch lower as it moves around.


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[sberry]

The wheels on the ones I built are not swivel, solid in an arc.

 

[930dreamer]

I have a jib crane and its not the most precise piece of lifting equipment. It will swing back along its arc when loaded, sometimes towards the shop door or the other way against the wall. For me a gantry setup will be in my future.

 

[sberry]

a jib needs to be super strong. I was going to use a rotator but my place is big and I wanted to move it. I got to walk a little around 1 end to some shelves but used it some and the other as a tool station, its not really in the way. I pretty much had a beam long enough but cutting the one I had to 19 ft made it just strong enough to match the rigging.
I moved it once when I first built it and its in a home ever since. There were a coup le ways to do this, I wanted to keep the weight on the floor to avoid expensive engineering.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, a bridge crane over 1 stall would put you in Hog Heaven.

I use 2nd hand pallet beams as raw material.