Overloading the Shop Wiring?

[lbperry]

I have a 24' x 24' shop. I feed the 200A box in the shop from a 60A breaker in the 200A box in the house. I have multiple 110V circuits in the shop for typical use including fluorescent lighting, up to 5 1500 Watt heaters, 2 110V AC window units (not at the same time as the heaters), other misc 110V loads and a 220V compressor. Haven't had any electrical problems yet.
I was about to pull the trigger on an Eastwood 175 A 220V welder but got to thinking ... is this the straw that's going to break the camels back?
Am I about to get into an overload situation that's going to make my welder useless?
If so, what's are some suggestions on addressing my situation?
I'd appreciate any comments.
Thanks,

 

[BFBOB]

Actual current capacity (ampacity) is determined by wire size and distance. Gotta know that to give an answer.

 

[Falcon67]

I feed my 100A box with a 70A breaker. I have two AC units, 5000w heater, mill, drill press, lathe, etc, big 60 gallon compressor, 3/4 HP well pump, 140A welder. 4 each 240V circuits, 2 20A light circuits, 5 20A plug circuits. Zero issues. I'm scheming for a Hobart 211 and my only issue would be where's the best place to drop another 240V plug.

Oh, and I had all this less one AC unit in the old 20x24, fed with a 60A run. I don't really see a problem for you.

 

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

...I feed the 200A box in the shop from a 60A breaker in the 200A box in the house...

Ok, my dumb question: How can the box provide up to 200 amps when the most it can pull is 60 amps from the house

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Ok, my dumb question: How can the box provide up to 200 amps when the most it can pull is 60 amps from the house

It doesn't, its just that it is capable of handling up to 200 amps, thats all. The OP has done good by using a larger box. It most certainly has more room in it for installing and working on wiring, and he could run more circuits this way and if he chose to upgrade the feeder to the shop in the future, he has the panel already in place, all he has to do is change out the feeder and the feeder supply circuit breaker.

In this case, the OP cannot get more thru the panel than the breaker in his house panel (60 amp) will allow.

Charles

 

[lbperry]

BOB, I didn't state the problem very accurately. I don't remember what gauge wire I used when I put it in the ground 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure I oversized it so I wouldn't have to dig it up in the future. I'd have to go dig it in the boxes to see what wire I used.
Toby hit the nail on the head on my main concern; the 60A breaker in the house box.
Like Charles says, can I run a 175A welder off of a 60A breaker?
But then from what Chris says, if he doesn't have a problem with what he's got, I guess I wouldn't have too much to worry about.
I guess I need to do two things: 1) check the gauge of the wire from the house to the shop, and 2) I know a pretty good electrician, I guess I need to see about him having a look at the whole thing.
Thanks for all the good replies, gave me some good opinions to think about. That's what I was looking for.

 

[Gary S]

Hopefully you had the foresight to lay conduit. If so, check your existing wire size. If it is maxed out at 60A, just pull it out and pull in larger wire. Then increase the breaker in the house to match it. If not, start digging.

This is why we use conduit.

 

[madosta]

That welder is small! (Don't take it personally... )

Rated Electrical Input: 210-240 VAC; 50-60Hz; 22AMP

So if you max it out at 175amps welding some thick steel it should only ever draw 22amps max at 240v.

If you're drawing close to the max of the breaker you will know. It should trip in the house before the wiring is cooked, but of course you don't want to do this.

 

[lbperry]

Yeah, Gary, I used the belt and suspenders approach and put direct bury wire in PVC conduit. Even think I used 90 deg sweeps to bring it up out of the ground. ... But I didn't include a pull string. Ah Well, if I find I need bigger wire, I'll just go with bare direct bury. I'm retired, so it'll outlive me, I'm sure.
Thanks for the amperage draw, madosta. Sounds like if I make sure some of the other high draw things like the AC and compressor are off, the welder shouldn't exceed the breaker. BTW, I know a 175A welder is small in the grand scheme of things. We're talking DIY level here. Most I can see myself ever trying to weld is 1/4" = maybe 3/8".
Once again, I appreciate the replies,

 

[Grumpy365]

I have a 24' x 24' shop. I feed the 200A box in the shop from a 60A breaker in the 200A box in the house. I have multiple 110V circuits in the shop for typical use including fluorescent lighting, up to 5 1500 Watt heaters, 2 110V AC window units (not at the same time as the heaters), other misc 110V loads and a 220V compressor. Haven't had any electrical problems yet.
I was about to pull the trigger on an Eastwood 175 A 220V welder but got to thinking ... is this the straw that's going to break the camels back?
Am I about to get into an overload situation that's going to make my welder useless?
If so, what's are some suggestions on addressing my situation?
I'd appreciate any comments.
Thanks,

The Eastwood 175 pulls 22 AMPS MAX. (and has a 30% duty cycle)

That leaves you 38 amps for everything else.

You won't simulateously, weld, grind, cut etc.

That given it is physically impossible to weld while using the Bench grinder and a hand grinder and a chop saw at the same time, so figure on ONE of those loads. don't get all crazy adding stuff together.

I would be a little concerned about the AC's bumping you over, but I think you may be OK.

 

[Highbeam]

Whoa! The important thing to remember with a welder is that the welder only welds with about 25 volts. 175 amps at 25 volts is totally different than 175 amps at 240 volts. You appear to be mistaken in thinking that the 175 amp setting is directly related to the 60 amp supply. It is not.

You can convert to watts to get the whole story.

 

[madosta]

Whoa! The important thing to remember with a welder is that the welder only welds with about 25 volts. 175 amps at 25 volts is totally different than 175 amps at 240 volts. You appear to be mistaken in thinking that the 175 amp setting is directly related to the 60 amp supply. It is not.

You can convert to watts to get the whole story.

Hey man, watt are you talkin' about.

 

[lbperry]

Yeah, guys. that was what was throwing me. A 175A welder isn't going to draw 175A on a 220V circuit. Got it now. From what everybody is pointing out, I'll probably be OK if I watch what else I have on when I weld.
Thanks to all for furthering my knowledge about it. I feel better about the situation now.
That's good. I sure do want to get that Eastwood 175A with a spool gun the next time they run a sale on it.
I still need to check the wiring gauge from the house to the shop so I'll know and can check to make sure I've got some margin on that.
Thanks again to all,

 

[Falcon67]

I've been looking hard at the Eastwood but decided to wait until I can buy the Hobart 211 dual voltage. More useful over time IMO.

 

[James-W]

You won't simultaneously, weld, grind, cut etc.

That given it is physically impossible to weld while using the Bench grinder and a hand grinder and a chop saw at the same time, so figure on ONE of those loads. don't get all crazy adding stuff together.

Not trying to start an argument, just trying to put things into perspective. Obviously, you are 100 percent correct, one person can't do all these things at the same time, that would be impossible. But who is to say he won't have friends over helping him work on a project? The more friends he has help him with projects, the more likely he is to have more than one piece of equipment running at the same time.

 

[sberry]

I have wired a garage full of garages for buds over the years including a couple where they actually worked in the thing doing auto. Comp, small AC, 60A service,,, never never ever had one call back due to a tripped 60. Never. Have seen several make a living welding shops ran on 100A. Done it, had gobs of equipment way beyond what a common home garage could use. .

 

[Sureshot]

I have wired a garage full of garages for buds over the years including a couple where they actually worked in the thing doing auto. Comp, small AC, 60A service,,, never never ever had one call back due to a tripped 60. Never. Have seen several make a living welding shops ran on 100A. Done it, had gobs of equipment way beyond what a common home garage could use. .

This. ^^^^^^^^^ I think you are way over thinking it. Check out the wire size and look at the options for peace of mind but just have at it and see how it goes.

 

[Grumpy365]

Not trying to start an argument, just trying to put things into perspective. Obviously, you are 100 percent correct, one person can't do all these things at the same time, that would be impossible. But who is to say he won't have friends over helping him work on a project? The more friends he has help him with projects, the more likely he is to have more than one piece of equipment running at the same time.

Really, how many times does that happen?

I may have a friend stop by, but he is usually talking, drinking my beer, watching, holding, lifting or advising.

I can't think of a single time there were 2 of us actually working, using different equipment simultaneously.

But everyone is different.

 

[James-W]

I have no idea how often or how many friends he will have over at any given time, I am just pointing out that he could potentially have several people helping him with a project. So to say that only one tool at a time will ever be used in the garage may or may not be accurate.

Personally, I have had several friends over working on a project. For example, last Fall a friend and his son stopped by for a visit. They had gone to an auction hoping to find a cheap tool chest, didn't find one, but they decided to stop by for a beer or two.

We were sitting in the garage when another buddy called and said he wanted some help with repairing his big trailer that he uses to haul his Bobcat around. He brought it over, along with a bunch of treated wood and some metal he had picked up. His son came along with him to help out.

Shortly after that, the neighbor came home with two of his golfing buddies. (They had just finished nine holes) They saw what we were about to do and they decided to help us. So there was eight of us working on this trailer, cutting out the rusted metal, welding in new metal, grinding everything smooth, running the woodworking saws, compressor, and assorted other items as well.

I doubt a 60 amp breaker would have handled the load, possibly it would have, I don't really know, but I have my doubts. But it didn’t matter, I have a 200 amp service in the garage so whether 60 amps would have sufficed or not is purely academic.

Again, I am not trying to start an argument, for all I know the opening poster works alone all the time. I am just pointing out the possibility certainly exists for friends stopping by to help him out and therefore several tools could be in use at one time.