Owner's marks--Provenance?

[Beerhippie]

I see that most of you all consider a tool pretty much ruined if it bears owner's marks.

It's interesting, as in my other collecting obsession--Coleman GPAs--owner's marks are considered provenance and folks will go to extremes to chase down and document any info on the PO. Voter's rolls, censuses, obits, etc. It's often interesting to know the 1929 lantern you're using was first owned by a guy named Harry, who lived in Spokane, WA, served in WWI, worked in the silver mines and died in 1942.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I suppose it all depends upon what you're looking for, but in the tool collecting world - at least what little I've seen of it - the tools that are NOT marked seem to retain a higher monetary value.

I had to look up "GPA". I suppose that encompasses most all of Coleman's product line that uses white gas, correct?
I wasn't aware you were a collector. I have a mess of "Coleman" stuff if you want it. (early catalogs.)

I tend to avoid anything that has been marked or altered. "No Owner Marks" is a selling feature on ebay.

 

[slowtwitch73]

I also research the names on tools n boxes... sometimes with the help of a place of employment like General Dynamics. Some interesting life stories out there. I don't mind marked tools at all.

 

[larry_g]

If the fastener don't complain then neither do I. Goes for stickers on tool boxes too. Check the link below.

Old toolbox

www.garagejournal.com

lg
no neat sig line

 

[cgrutt]

Early on I marked my Snap on and some Craftsman tools I regret doing that now and will rarely buy a used tool with owner marks (I did purchase one tool here recently with owner marks and converted it to my initials lol).

Collectors of certain Swiss (and other) rifles look for ID Tags under the rifle's **** plate.

K31 ID Tags

 

[PelicanPines]

My owners mark... 3/4" or 3/8" label printed with a Brady.

 

[Beerhippie]

^ I suppose it all depends upon what you're looking for, but in the tool collecting world - at least what little I've seen of it - the tools that are NOT marked seem to retain a higher monetary value.

I had to look up "GPA". I suppose that encompasses most all of Coleman's product line that uses white gas, correct?
I wasn't aware you were a collector. I have a mess of "Coleman" stuff if you want it. (early catalogs.)

I tend to avoid anything that has been marked or altered. "No Owner Marks" is a selling feature on ebay.

It's just odd to me how this differs from one collecting sea to the next.

For instance, I have this old Gruen Men's watch:



I had it appraised a while back and was informed that this inscription:



Significantly increased the value.

Yep, I have OCD--Obessive Coleman Disorder--in addition to my other problems. I'd be very interested in any old catalogs if you want to pass them on. I scan them and add them to a Coleman database.

Sorry about throwing out acronyms like that. GPA is Gasoline-Pressure Appliance. It applies to basically anything that burns a liquid (at STP) petroleum product (including kerosene) under pressure--they usually have built in pumps, except for earliest model, which used external pumps. Appliances include the camping gear you're used to, as well as whole-house lighting/heating/cooking systems ("hollow wire") that run off a large tank in the basement or outside, stand-alone kitchen ranges, clothes irons, etc.

This is the TG shop during a power outage last year, lit by a '36 Coleman 228B. A few other appliances are visible in the background. More are at home. All "ran when parked". I have it bad.

 

[bwringer]

My Dad had a neat little stylized "RW" in a circle monogram that he engraved on a lot of his tools. That only increases their value to me, of course, but would probably decrease the value to others.

Tools are generally about plain old usefulness, so the human "story" usually doesn't matter until the tools are long past being useful, or are connected to an interesting story.

But for things like that cool watch, the human story does matter. I can almost picture Tillie giving Wally this watch in 1936, and I kinda want to know more about them.

 

[Beerhippie]

We always marked our tools on the jobsite. While it's considered a major crime to use another man's tools without asking (and that can be a faux pas, too), it's easy enough to get confused when everyone is using a 28 oz Estwing on a tear-off. Our marks, 'though, were usually more like cresting on an arrow--paint or tape so it was visible from a ways off.

 

[leg17]

Tools w/wo PO marks matter to SOME collectors.
Vintage or antique tools that are in better shape and/or unmarked are less available than the common user showing wear and/or PO marks. Not as common.
A simple supply/demand issue. Not a right or wrong.
Different strokes for different folks. (??)
Hey, some people collect beanie babies.

 

[Beerhippie]

My Dad had a neat little stylized "RW" in a circle monogram that he engraved on a lot of his tools. That only increases their value to me, of course, but would probably decrease the value to others.

Tools are generally about plain old usefulness, so the human "story" usually doesn't matter until the tools are long past being useful, or are connected to an interesting story.

But for things like that cool watch, the human story does matter. I can almost picture Tillie giving Wally this watch in 1936, and I kinda want to know more about them.

Look up what railroad-inscribed pocket watches go for....

 

[Beerhippie]

Tools w/wo PO marks matter to SOME collectors.
Vintage or antique tools that are in better shape and/or unmarked are less available than the common user showing wear and/or PO marks. Not as common.
A simple supply/demand issue. Not a right or wrong.
Different strokes for different folks. (??)
Hey, some people collect beanie babies.

I ain't judgin', just puzzlin'.

 

[paulsomlo]

I could care less about marks and engraving - and if it affects the price in a negative way, so much the better.

 

[four.cycle]

^ There's no hard fast rule on this one.
At one end of the spectrum, there's me: I don't buy anything that's been engraved.
At the other end, you have @paulsomlo - makes no difference, and if owner marks reduce the price, that's a bonus.

There's a lot of truth in "The bolt doesn't care what brand of wrench turns it." (and most certainly doesn't care whether or not those ubiquitous three dots or somebody's full name is engraved on it.)

Watches, old engraved Zippo lighters.... apples and oranges.

 

[cody1325]

I could care less about marks and engraving - and if it affects the price in a negative way, so much the better.

Exactly the way I look at it.

Also, despite it not being "My" name, I can tell it's mine and mine only by those previous engravings. Aside from deceased relatives and a mining business that shut its doors in the '90s, not a single other engraved tool came from my neck of the woods, so it can't be mistaken for anyone else's.

 

[RTM]

I have a stack of tools recovered from a toolbox being sold off by pieces. It belonged to two brothers, one passed earlier by a decade or more. Each tool is stamped with one or the others name, or a few with both. Between a buddy and I, we got 90% of the tools, from guys who both worked pre 1900. Some of the tools are Pat Pending to that same era. We have a bit of their ancestry deciphered.

The earlier brother was a finish carpenter, stairways n railings, I think, so I have a set of Hollows n Rounds, ships augers, etc. Yeah, we call it provenance, and shows it was a working man's "set of tools" for a trade or craft.

Been working on writing it up for a few years.

 

[Leon bee]

I don't care at all......tools I've had for decades got somebody else's marks. But I love hearing this about INcreased value on that kinda stuff. Tillie and Wally.........that would make that watch above really mean something.

 

[ecotec]

I try as hard as possible to avoid engraved tools. Sometimes, I don’t notice the engraving until I have already bought the tool.

A few of my 3/8” metric Snap-on semi -deeps are engraved. For a dollar per socket at the flea market, I made the exception. I did see, before I bought them, that they were engraved.

For the most part, I give away or donate engraved tools.

 

[d42jeep]

This Walden box belongs to a collecting colleague in Australia. There is the name of the previous owner “Raymond Wozniak” engraved at the top of the cover. If I remember correctly Lugz was able to research the WW2 service record of the gentleman which added so much provenance to the box.
-Don

 

[Beerhippie]

This Walden box belongs to a collecting colleague in Australia. There is the name of the previous owner “Raymond Wozniak” engraved at the top of the cover. If I remember correctly Lugz was able to research the WW2 service record of the gentleman which added so much provenance to the box.
-Don

Hmm... any relation to Steve?

 

[d42jeep]

Probably not.
-Don

 

[RoninB4]

-If I've put a lot of time into making something (grinding vises, angle plates, furniture, etc.) I'll likely stamp my initials in it somewhere to identify that it's mine, a habit with toolmakers. If my tooling is for sale I doubt the resale value will be a concern of mine.

-For the few engraved tooling/instruments I have it's a connection to another toolmaker now gone. Yeah that sounds kinda weird to some but not to others I've known. For art/antique collectors the name can mean a lot. To each their own.

 

[MushCreek]

Beerhippie- I have the exact same watch- from 1936! I put a black leather band on it and wear it for dress-up. I had it serviced and it keeps perfect time.

As for tool markings- most of the ones I have that are marked I bought from old-timers I worked with. It makes me smile to think of them when I use the tools. Nick. Stanley, Tim, Ragnar.....

 

[OccupantRJ]

The value of a tool to me lies in it’s usefulness and durability. Beyond that, it’s jewelry.

 

[d42jeep]

When we closed down our repair shop in 1982, the tools got divided up between my partner and myself and I found around four years ago that I had come away with this socket obviously that had been engraved by his wife. Since they our now our next door neighbors in the mountains, I thought that it would be appropriate to give it back to him.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I try to avoid buying tools engraved by previous owners but this set doesn’t bother me at all. The tools are from a set I bought new many decades ago back when I was still engraving my tools. The box had disappeared a long time ago so I found a replacement plus a decent liner and recreated the set.
-Don

 

[Beerhippie]

Beerhippie- I have the exact same watch- from 1936! I put a black leather band on it and wear it for dress-up. I had it serviced and it keeps perfect time.

....

That's pretty amazing!

When I had mine appraised, I was told it was the only action of its kind known--and this included inquiries to the international Gruen collectors groups. Hence, the appraisal was rather broad (literally, an order of magnitude), as there were no known final sale prices to compare it to. The appraiser had it for over an month while he tried to chase down details. He did recommend that it be sold through one of the big auction houses rather than Ebay. I still have it.

It keeps perfect time, and I've never done any work on it--other than opening the case the get some pics of the action:

 

[MushCreek]

On all of the precision tools I made, I EDM'd my logo- an anchor with my initials. I recently sold a small grinding vise to a collector, and he was really excited that it had my mark on it. Here's a poor picture-

 

[MushCreek]

I stand corrected- my watch is a little different. I got it on ebay cheap because it ran very fast, like an hour a day. I looked inside and could see that the hairspring on the balance wheel had broken and someone re-staked it. Of course, being shorter, it ran fast. I sent it to Mark Sirianni, and he fixed it, cleaned it, buffed the case and crystal, and sent it back for a total of $60. That was some years ago, though.

 

[Beerhippie]

I stand corrected- my watch is a little different. I got it on ebay cheap because it ran very fast, like an hour a day. I looked inside and could see that the hairspring on the balance wheel had broken and someone re-staked it. Of course, being shorter, it ran fast. I sent it to Mark Sirianni, and he fixed it, cleaned it, buffed the case and crystal, and sent it back for a total of $60. That was some years ago, though.

I like the art-deco script! I see yours doesn't say "Curvex" on the face. The case is different, but that doesn't mean anything, as these were imported as bare actions and the cases made here in the US by various jewelers/watchmakers.

Or so I was told....

 

[Cruzan80]

I am also in the "Don't care" camp. All things being equal, unengraved make for an easier time selling if I upgrade.

The one part I do like for some engraved tools is from when I have bought lager lots, and see the same name on several tools I end up using a bunch. It is kind of like an old friend, that I never met...

 

[d42jeep]

This is the type of marking I partIcularly don’t like. Not exactly subtle.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ That kind of stuff gets sent out for "Secret Santa"!

I just listed a pair of pliers yesterday and noticed at the last minute they're marked with the "three dots", but it's only visible if you open them all the way.

 

[pcrov]

All my tools with owner's marks come from my grandfather. He passed a long time ago before I was able to get stories from him directly, so now I piece together stories in part from those marks instead. Different eras of his marks - dabs of paint, an initial, an etched name. Marks from different people - tools loaned? traded? salvaged and repaired?

He was a welder and mechanic who always wanted to run a junkyard, and so kinda did in and around his garage. There isn't much left to pick through today, but I'm still finding treasures of stories and possibilities out there regularly.

I don't know who Casey is, but if you're out there I have your wrench: