Oxy/Propane torch, Propane forge, propane foundry furnace and...

[Thumper68]

So I have been contemplating adding either a propane boiler or a propane water heater to heat the shop instead of the electric boiler I have now, or maybe in addition to, dual fuel and all.

I have been trying to justify the cost in my head and while I was driving around yesterday it hit me.

I am planning on building both a propane powered forge and a foundry furnace, I have several 100 pound cylinders to provide the fuel and that was my plan.

So I called up my propane supplier and asked that if we go ahead and do the boiler or water heater can we also plumb in a connection for a torch, the forge and foundry.

He said sure no problem.

What say you, is this a good idea or not?

BTW I put this in the tools section because it is more about the torch, forge and foundry than the heat source.

 

[ttpete]

With oxy-propane, you can do anything you can do with oxy-acetylene except weld steel. Not hot enough for good welds. A cutting torch will work, though.

 

[zkling]

It's a good idea. One thing to watch out for is max draw rate vs line size to prevent freezing of lines, especially if you are using venturi burners. Although in a hobby shop, it would probably pretty rare to have all 4 going at once.

 

[Thumper68]

With oxy-propane, you can do anything you can do with oxy-acetylene except weld steel. Not hot enough for good welds. A cutting torch will work, though.

I already have a Oxy/Acetylene set up and actually do use it for welding from time to time, my youngest son is learning as well so it gets used.

The oxy/propane would just be used for heating, I wouldn't even bother getting the cutting set up.

It's a good idea. One thing to watch out for is max draw rate vs line size to prevent freezing of lines, especially if you are using venturi burners. Although in a hobby shop, it would probably pretty rare to have all 4 going at once.

I will have to inquire about the draw rate and make sure that it is sized for the heating source and one or two of the others, I can see using the torch and the forge at the same time. Nice thing is that they all make heat, during the heating months I figure that the boiler/water heater would not come on while I have the forge or foundry running. from what I have read the foundry burner set up I built is between 300k and 500k btu's.

The more I think about it the more I think it is a win win. I also have a almost full tank from our old mobile home that we do not use anymore that can be moved over to the shop, so the first tank of propane is almost free, I will have to check in the daylight but IIRC it is at 60 or 70%.

 

[royce]

Great idea,
I built this one out of a chunk of stack from a incinerator, it makes a lot of heat.
It also makes carbon monoxide, so I only run it outside.

Royce

 

[Thumper68]

Great idea,
I built this one out of a chunk of stack from a incinerator, it makes a lot of heat.
It also makes carbon monoxide, so I only run it outside.

Royce

Good lord man are you starting your own foundry?

You could make one hell of a sword with that thing, Guessing around 36"

Here I was thinking that with a large propane supply and 3 burners I could go up to about 26" depth.

BTW you come up with the best scrap, I almost hate you.

 

[royce]

Good lord man are you starting your own foundry?

You could make one hell of a sword with that thing, Guessing around 36"

Here I was thinking that with a large propane supply and 3 burners I could go up to about 26" depth.

BTW you come up with the best scrap, I almost hate you.

I think it would go 48"
No scrap, all grade A junk!!!

Royce

 

[sberry]

2 things. A common torch runs at a different pressure than other common equipment and secondly get a pig vs small bottles. The cost for bulk to a 500 gallon tank is 1/2 as it is in 100# cylinders. It would probably need 3 bottles to make that kind of withdraw rate.

 

[gnpenning]

Have you checked on larger tanks?

You forgot to add for a bbq grill

I have a smaller forge it uses a fair amount of propane. I try to fill in the spring early summer for the lowest price.

 

[Warrenator]

A common misconception is that you can't weld with oxy-propane because it isn't as hot as oxy-acetylene. Actually, it is almost as hot. But acetylene produces a shielding zone of CO2 gas around the flame so you get good clean welds, propane does not.

Oxy-propane is great for cutting and heating though, way cheaper than oxy-acetylene.

 

[WittHay]

I am thinking for portability, most guys just use a small propane tank on their torches. You use way more oxygen than propane for cutting and even heating.

The other thing is safety. When you done with the torch, just turn the tank off. The heater probably stays on all the time but the forge or foundry needs individual shutoff valves

 

[Thumper68]

2 things. A common torch runs at a different pressure than other common equipment and secondly get a pig vs small bottles. The cost for bulk to a 500 gallon tank is 1/2 as it is in 100# cylinders. It would probably need 3 bottles to make that kind of withdraw rate.

Have you checked on larger tanks?

You forgot to add for a bbq grill

I have a smaller forge it uses a fair amount of propane. I try to fill in the spring early summer for the lowest price.

Yup I have a spare 250 gal I believe tank on the property for a mobile home we do not use anymore which will be moved to the shop if I go ahead with this.

A common misconception is that you can't weld with oxy-propane because it isn't as hot as oxy-acetylene. Actually, it is almost as hot. But acetylene produces a shielding zone of CO2 gas around the flame so you get good clean welds, propane does not.

Oxy-propane is great for cutting and heating though, way cheaper than oxy-acetylene.

The $$$ was why I thought of adding a torch kit for heating and maybe cutting depending on the kit I get.

I have welded with oxy/propane oxy/nat gas and oxy/propylene, none of them compare to acetylene. All of them are great for heating and cutting.

So it sounds like ya'll think this is a good idea.

I should hear back from my propane guy next week and set a date for him to come look the job over and give me a bid.

 

[Thumper68]

I am thinking for portability, most guys just use a small propane tank on their torches. You use way more oxygen than propane for cutting and even heating.

The other thing is safety. When you done with the torch, just turn the tank off. The heater probably stays on all the time but the forge or foundry needs individual shutoff valves

I have a oxy/acetylene set for portable and of course I can always use a small tank if I wanted to take the oxy/propane set up somewhere.

For the propane hard line in the shop I figured to have a manifold with 3 connections, one to the boiler/water heater, one with a shut off with gas rated quick connects, so no worries about safety, shut off the valve and disconnect the hose from the quick connect and a third with a shut off and the regulator for the torch.

 

[sberry]

You wouldn't need a second reg for the torch but I am not sure how they would treat that pressure entering the building on a separate circuit?

 

[Thumper68]

You wouldn't need a second reg for the torch but I am not sure how they would treat that pressure entering the building on a separate circuit?

From what I have read is that the incoming line is unregulated and you use separate regulators for each devise. So I would need a regulator for the torch, one for the foundry/forge and one for the heat source.

My understanding is that you do not want to have a regulator before the manifold, that would limit the flow rate to everything since they all require a different volume of gas.

This is a case where I am going to let a pro design the system for me.

I just wanted to see if others thought this is a good idea or not?

 

[sberry]

Most systems have 2 stage. One at the tank and one at the building. The tank drops it to 10# or so and the building to a few ounces. After first stage 3/8 line carries 200k but @ 66ft. You will need to have 1/2 to go to 500k and inch inside depending on distance.
As for the gas people, make sure you get a tech. A lot of the help are truck drivers deivering gas and they learn hand to mouth.

 

[sberry]

Most of the volume is supplied pipe size vs pressure changes. Some does use tank pressure and is regulated at the converter which is needed if it is liquid supplied. Using liquid can drain the tank faster than vapor which is limited to the 1/7 rule. Big engines in busses etc use this, they. would need too large tanks to run from vapor. 270 gallon of vapor to one liquid.
Btw,, fwiw, , I don't use this all the time and forget so this is generalization.