Oxy Torch set purchase.

[930dreamer]

I'm looking for a oxycetaline (new)setup, what should I look at?

 

[rlitman]

What are you looking to do with it? Cut, braze, weld, jewelry?

Used torches can be worthwhile, IF you know what you need.
Used regulators are much more of a gamble, and used hoses go in the trash.
Used cylinders are fine, since you swap acetylene, and any reputable shop will not fill a dangerous O2 cylinder.

 

[930dreamer]

Cutting and heating for now.

 

[rmack898]

I am a fan of Smiths.
The torch just feels good in my hands and the quality is top shelf.

A Victor Journeyman is almost the industry standard and you can't go wrong with it.

One factor to consider is what does you LWS support? If you need a tip or parts and can't wait for the brown truck to bring you parts then you need to rely on your LWS.

What ever you decide to buy, just don't get some import knock off of a Victor. There are lots of them out there and when you are dealing with acetylene, cheap is not the way to go.

 

[rlitman]

I am a fan of Smiths.
The torch just feels good in my hands and the quality is top shelf.

A Victor Journeyman is almost the industry standard and you can't go wrong with it.

One factor to consider is what does you LWS support? If you need a tip or parts and can't wait for the brown truck to bring you parts then you need to rely on your LWS.

What ever you decide to buy, just don't get some import knock off of a Victor. There are lots of them out there and when you are dealing with acetylene, cheap is not the way to go.

+1 to all of this.

Smith has the best warranty in the business. Victor is what my LWS stocks.

Clones are ****!

 

[930dreamer]

I need to go to a few local welding stores, I won't go cheap. What kind of prices are we talking about?

 

[bigb56]

Victor is the most popular and easy to get parts, but genuine Victor parts can be pricey too. I have a couple Victors, a 100 and a 300 Journeyman. I have a complete Harris setup as well, a small Smith, and my favorite is my Esab Oxweld. The Oxweld is great, best ergonomics of any torch. It was also free, I got it thrown in with a purchase at a moving sale. Tip for it are cheap and easy to come by on ebay. They seem to be out of favor but talk to any old timer and they all love Esab.

The big thing you need to consider is the size of your cylinders. If you plan to do any heating or use any decent size tips you need BIG cylinders. The small Acetylene cylinders will barely support even the smallest 000 welding tips, and forget about a rosebud. Even with the smallest rosebud you need at least a 140 CF acetylene cylinder and then only intermittent use. I wouldn't consider anything smaller than a 140 for any kind of decent sized welding/brazing tips. The smaller cylinders are OK for jewelry and small spot heating like a stuck bolt for instance.

Do some research and Google "Acetylene Withdrawl Rates". Overdrawing a cylinder can ruin your regulator at the least, and ruin your day at the worst.

For most heating needs you will not need a rosebud anyway, I never use mine. A welding tip will do for most all heating needs.

 

[Warrenator]

If you are just heating and cutting go oxy-propane rather than oxy-acetylene. Cheaper fuel but you can't weld with it.

 

[buildyourown]

Decent ones seem to be all over my Craigslist. If they havent fallen off the back of a truck its hard for a good one to go bad.

 

[Lwel9226]

I am a fan of Smiths.
The torch just feels good in my hands and the quality is top shelf.

A Victor Journeyman is almost the industry standard and you can't go wrong with it.

One factor to consider is what does you LWS support? If you need a tip or parts and can't wait for the brown truck to bring you parts then you need to rely on your LWS.

What ever you decide to buy, just don't get some import knock off of a Victor. There are lots of them out there and when you are dealing with acetylene, cheap is not the way to go.

Smith is good, Victor is hard to beat, both in quality and availability.....
Stay away from HARBER FREIGHT... they are a cheap copy of Victor.....

LynnW

 

[BD1]

Victor and Smith are what we have used for years. Smith I believe is still made in USA and they do have a Lifetime guarantee on some models.
Have been using both for 45 years and no issues with either. Check prices at local supplier and ask about tanks too as a package deal IF you want to buy new. IF you plan on the LP they do have a dedicated set for that.

 

[mike13u]

Flame Tech out of Texas makes excellent outfits. Been around almost 40 years and they have fantastic support and good distribution through LWSs.
If you get into cutting plate they also manufacture an excellent tool called the scorpion ez cut

 

[A**holes Garage]

Used Victor for over 40 years. Not a problem.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Set up an account with your LWS, you will need it any way. Then price either a victor, harris, or smith. All three are excellent. See which on fits in your hand. I like the smaller side light duty victors, they get in small places well. But it still has the capacity to cut 1" plate easy. Most of the time its getting used for 1/4-1/2 plate, no problem. Also purchase the smallest tip you can, if your planning on cutting thinner plate. Less wasted gas, and less heat input in material, and less mess. I bought a new regulator set from my LWS Harris GX series for $165.00 which is right in line. Not sure about what a torch will run. I would imagine you could get a whole general duty set up for around $325-350.

 

[lilredex]

Here are my medium duty Victors from 1982, with a "B" tank and 80 Cu. Ft. O2. For my hobby work, they are sized about right, unless you want to do a lot of cutting.

I would probably make the same choice today.

 

[matt_i]

I think I'm in the minority but I've always used Harris and it works, no complaints.

 

[rlitman]

I think I'm in the minority but I've always used Harris and it works, no complaints.

I don't believe Harris' current quality is as good as it used to be. Though the same can be said about Victor.

I still use my Harris (Craftsman branded) regulators, but sold the torches long ago. The Harris torches I had, had the O and A fittings to close to each other to accept standard flashback arrestors. My Victor torches have flashback arrestors built into them.

 

[dr_clyde]

I have all of the big 3, Harris (Lincoln), Victor (ESAB) and Smith (Miller). My favorite is the Smith, mostly due to the lifetime warranty and the nickel plating.

I have medium and heavy duty Smith sets, and the medium stays on the tanks the most, due to the good size.

 

[dr_clyde]

Don't discount some of the other good brands. Purox, MECO, and Flame Tech all make a good torch.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Mine are Victor, because wherever I've lived my FLWS stocks Victor, but any of the aforementioned systems work... and if I need tips or a replacement handle or etc. they have the compatible system. It's (generally) a bad bad idea to mix and match brands, because some systems are incompatible. My medium set (like dc above) always stays on the tanks, and can handle about 90% of what I need. I have a large setup to fire off my larger rosebuds, the big cutting head, and the one gargantuan tip I have, but I haven't hooked that up in months.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

If you are just heating and cutting go oxy-propane rather than oxy-acetylene. Cheaper fuel but you can't weld with it.

+1 for this one. Make sure you get the correct grade of hose for propane too. That and the tips are not interchangeable.

 

[rlitman]

+1 for this one. Make sure you get the correct grade of hose for propane too. That and the tips are not interchangeable.

Grade R and RM hose are for acetylene only (RM has an oil resistant exterior covering). Grade T is rated for all fuel gases, and would be acceptable for propane or acetylene.

From a fuel safety standpoint, acetylene is probably safer indoors than propane. Propane is MUCH cheaper, but it also uses more oxygen, so that cuts into your savings (though cutting uses so much oxygen on its own, that the different may negligible if you don't braze or weld).

 

[Lelandwelds]

Flame Tech out of Texas makes excellent outfits. Been around almost 40 years and they have fantastic support and good distribution through LWSs.
If you get into cutting plate they also manufacture an excellent tool called the scorpion ez cut

The Flame Tech guys do make great equipment. Their propane tips have an outer shell twice as thick as a victor. They use square splines too. Very durable. Very robust type 55 rosebuds too. Their best torch is a victor copy that is a head mixer like a harris. I like their tips more than their torch and regulators. Excellent tips.

Don't forget. Victor makes a pretty good Victor clone too.

Smiths are nice. Each new tip comes with a new mixer. It's like a free mini rebuild.


My favorite is the Victor CST800C torch with SR450 regulators. I have a few 315FC and 310 for propylene heating.

Harris kinda ***** esp Sears version.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Grade R and RM hose are for acetylene only (RM has an oil resistant exterior covering). Grade T is rated for all fuel gases, and would be acceptable for propane or acetylene.

From a fuel safety standpoint, acetylene is probably safer indoors than propane. Propane is MUCH cheaper, but it also uses more oxygen, so that cuts into your savings (though cutting uses so much oxygen on its own, that the different may negligible if you don't braze or weld).

Anything is safer than acetylene. Oxypropane is far cheaper than oxyacetylene. Do you know the difference and reason behind the hose drama? I wouldn't worry about hose so much.

 

[rlitman]

Anything is safer than acetylene. Oxypropane is far cheaper than oxyacetylene. Do you know the difference and reason behind the hose drama? I wouldn't worry about hose so much.

While acetylene has all sorts of safety restrictions, it does not pool, since it is lighter than air. Propane cylinders are absolutely not allowed indoors. Acetylene is fine in a basement. Those in the know, will point out that of the gases we deal with, oxygen is probably the most dangerous.

As for the host grade differences, I will quote myself from another site:

Grade R hose is made from rubber (EPDM over EPDM to be specific), which is safe for use with acetylene (and EPDM has a satisfactory service life in the presence of acetone too), but which is NOT safe with propane. Propane (especially if any liquid gets into the hose) will dissolve the rubber from the inside out (so the damage will not be visible until it fails). Grade R hose is also not oil resistant. Oil exposure will destroy it from the outside in. Grade R hose is rated as safe with acetylene only (it will clearly state this on the packaging for good reason).

Grade RM hose uses two layers, with SBR rubber on the inside, and neoprene on the outside. Neoprene is oil resistant, so grade RM hose will hold up a little better in an oily environment, however the SBR rubber is sensitive to acetone (though if used properly, there should never be acetone in your hoses), and also to propane. Again, propane can destroy a grade RM hose from the inside out. While the cover layer is resistant to propane, it is the inner liner layer which is wrapped by the textile that is responsible for holding pressure, so RM hose is not safe with propane, and is rated as safe for acetylene only.

Grade T hose uses two layers of neoprene. This is the ONLY grade of welding hose that is considered safe for all welding gases.

Refer to this chart for propane vs rubber:
http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart-5

 

[Lelandwelds]

While acetylene has all sorts of safety restrictions, it does not pool, since it is lighter than air. Propane cylinders are absolutely not allowed indoors. Acetylene is fine in a basement. Those in the know, will point out that of the gases we deal with, oxygen is probably the most dangerous.

As for the host grade differences, I will quote myself from another site:

Grade R hose is made from rubber (EPDM over EPDM to be specific), which is safe for use with acetylene (and EPDM has a satisfactory service life in the presence of acetone too), but which is NOT safe with propane. Propane (especially if any liquid gets into the hose) will dissolve the rubber from the inside out (so the damage will not be visible until it fails). Grade R hose is also not oil resistant. Oil exposure will destroy it from the outside in. Grade R hose is rated as safe with acetylene only (it will clearly state this on the packaging for good reason).

Grade RM hose uses two layers, with SBR rubber on the inside, and neoprene on the outside. Neoprene is oil resistant, so grade RM hose will hold up a little better in an oily environment, however the SBR rubber is sensitive to acetone (though if used properly, there should never be acetone in your hoses), and also to propane. Again, propane can destroy a grade RM hose from the inside out. While the cover layer is resistant to propane, it is the inner liner layer which is wrapped by the textile that is responsible for holding pressure, so RM hose is not safe with propane, and is rated as safe for acetylene only.

Grade T hose uses two layers of neoprene. This is the ONLY grade of welding hose that is considered safe for all welding gases.

Refer to this chart for propane vs rubber:
http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart-5

Ok, Google works. What temperature does propane turn liquid? It is liquid propane that attacks rubber. It isn't a widespread problem because sane people do not live where such temperatures are possible.

 

[Lelandwelds]

While acetylene has all sorts of safety restrictions, it does not pool, since it is lighter than air. Propane cylinders are absolutely not allowed indoors. Acetylene is fine in a basement. Those in the know, will point out that of the gases we deal with, oxygen is probably the most dangerous.

If you think settling of gases is the primary danger from flammable gases, you have not been paying attention. Propane cylinders are commonly used indoors on forklifts, floor polishers, and other equipment. Propane is commonly used for heating indoors also. The reason the cylinders are not allowed inside is because the decision to vent the cylinders to handle thermal expansion was made last century. Most tanks are not designed to constantly leak on purpose like the LPG and relatives.

Explosive decomposition is not a propane problem. Copper is not a catalyst for propane. Propane has a fairly tight flammability limit in air. Propane can be stored in a simple hollow tank. Propane isn't particularly shock sensitive. When propane does pool, it is fairly hard to ignite and often flashes instead of explodes.

Acetylene cannot be stored over about 60 psi. It must be dissolved in acetone which adds it's own problems. Even dissolved it must be dispersed through a porous mass to prevent explosive decomposition from rough handling. Copper can violently catalyze acetylene. Acetylene hose if pressurized to about 50 psi at room temperature can explode if impacted.

It's worst feature is it will burn at very low concentrations or at very high concentrations.

Oxygen isn't even close to the most dangerous gas commonly handled. Chlorine, for example, is worse.

 

[Mbsk01]

I say buy used Victor. Recently bought a nice Victor torch off Ebay for $37 shipped. Of course I have the luxury of a torch repair place locally that has good pricing.

 

[rmack898]

This thread stated out as a recommendation on torches but seems to have now migrated to a discussion ago fuel gases.

I personally use propane as a fuel gas. We used propane exclusively on turnarounds in refineries and once you get used to using it for cutting and heating you never realize the difference between propane and acetylene . My insurance company gives me a discount for using propane in lieu of acetylene.

I can't remember the last time I needed to gas weld in the shop since I got an inverter TIG machine. If I need the finesse of fine welding, I'm going to TIG it instead of using a fuel/gas torch.

 

[rlitman]

Ok, Google works. What temperature does propane turn liquid? It is liquid propane that attacks rubber. It isn't a widespread problem because sane people do not live where such temperatures are possible.

Then everyone here insane. Propane is liquid in the tank. And it is not all that difficult to get liquid propane in your lines. That can happen simply if you shake the tank or tip it while withdrawing gas, but there are other scenarios too. LP is a mix of gases, and butane is often in there. Your line pressures can often be enough to liquify butane, as the pressure inside a Bic lighter isn't all that high.

If you think settling of gases is the primary danger from flammable gases, you have not been paying attention. Propane cylinders are commonly used indoors on forklifts, floor polishers, and other equipment. Propane is commonly used for heating indoors also. The reason the cylinders are not allowed inside is because the decision to vent the cylinders to handle thermal expansion was made last century. Most tanks are not designed to constantly leak on purpose like the LPG and relatives.

Explosive decomposition is not a propane problem. Copper is not a catalyst for propane. Propane has a fairly tight flammability limit in air. Propane can be stored in a simple hollow tank. Propane isn't particularly shock sensitive. When propane does pool, it is fairly hard to ignite and often flashes instead of explodes.

Acetylene cannot be stored over about 60 psi. It must be dissolved in acetone which adds it's own problems. Even dissolved it must be dispersed through a porous mass to prevent explosive decomposition from rough handling. Copper can violently catalyze acetylene. Acetylene hose if pressurized to about 50 psi at room temperature can explode if impacted.

It's worst feature is it will burn at very low concentrations or at very high concentrations.

Oxygen isn't even close to the most dangerous gas commonly handled. Chlorine, for example, is worse.

Propane cylinders are NOT allowed indoors. A warehouse with a forklift may have a roof, but it is far from indoors. Try using a propane powered engine inside an air conditioned facility. There's a reason that places own electric forklifts. Yes, propane is used for indoor heating. Find me a place that will install your cylinder indoors. The same restrictions do not exist for acetylene, for good reason. Propane leaks are known for seeking drains.

Acetylene has an LEL of 2.6 ,and an HEL of 13.
Propane has an LEL of 2.1 and an HEL of 9.5. Butane has an LEL of 1.8.
In a fairly open space, the LEL is MUCH more important than the HEL, and as such, propane is easier to ignite.

Explosive decomposition of acetylene and reaction with copper are easy to avoid if you are able to follow instructions.

Yes, there are countless gases used industrially that are more dangerous than anything used by the people here (and many of those make chlorine look tame). But in the garage environment, the list is pretty short, chlorine is not on that list, and I stand by oxygen being the most dangerous gas we would expect to encounter.

 

[joe49]

Victor Journeyman gets my vote.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Then everyone here insane. Propane is liquid in the tank. And it is not all that difficult to get liquid propane in your lines. That can happen simply if you shake the tank or tip it while withdrawing gas, but there are other scenarios too. LP is a mix of gases, and butane is often in there. Your line pressures can often be enough to liquify butane, as the pressure inside a Bic lighter isn't all that high.



Propane cylinders are NOT allowed indoors. A warehouse with a forklift may have a roof, but it is far from indoors. Try using a propane powered engine inside an air conditioned facility. There's a reason that places own electric forklifts. Yes, propane is used for indoor heating. Find me a place that will install your cylinder indoors. The same restrictions do not exist for acetylene, for good reason. Propane leaks are known for seeking drains.

Acetylene has an LEL of 2.6 ,and an HEL of 13.
Propane has an LEL of 2.1 and an HEL of 9.5. Butane has an LEL of 1.8.
In a fairly open space, the LEL is MUCH more important than the HEL, and as such, propane is easier to ignite.

Explosive decomposition of acetylene and reaction with copper are easy to avoid if you are able to follow instructions.

Yes, there are countless gases used industrially that are more dangerous than anything used by the people here (and many of those make chlorine look tame). But in the garage environment, the list is pretty short, chlorine is not on that list, and I stand by oxygen being the most dangerous gas we would expect to encounter.

Oops, I forgot to feed the trolls.

So, you are arguing gravity makes propane more dangerous because of floor drains and basements? Do you realize how comparatively rare those two structures are in garages and all other buildings? Did you know roofs and rafters are a common feature on every building? Ever notice the same gravity can make lighter gases collect over head?

I suspect the extremely common gas with tighter explosive limits that may collect in rare architectural features may be involved in smaller percentage of negative outcomes per 100,000 uses. Propane is safer than temperamental acetylene.

It takes time for liquid propane to penetrate multiple hoses. A user would have to circumvent the OPD or lay down a 100 lb plus of cylinder, ignore the -70°F freezing of everything, have the regulator continue to operate, have the hose survive the 200 psi ish pressure while frozen, and have an operator allow all this to happen. The alternative is storing a pressurized rubber hose where Temps can plummet to -70°F.

In the real world if this happens, a user's hose gets a bunch of leaks only on the fuel side and he replaces it. The propane will reach atmosphere before it softens into the second side with the oxygen.

Do you really think this is a serious problem?

You really have never seen a propane floor buffer, propane welder, or propane forklift routinely in a building?

 

[Willie Makeit]

Oops, I forgot to feed the trolls.

<snip>

sigh. here you are again derailing another thread by starting an argument on a subject that has nothing to do with the original subject matter. (aka: TROLLING)

more than one of us have noticed you are notorious for this. it appears, to the untrained eye, that such efforts are an attempt to somehow make yourself look more important and/or more intelligent.

just a friendly heads up: it isn't working.

 

[56Safari]

+1 for the Victory journeyman II set, I've had mine for a couple of years and it works great. Includes everything you need to get going right out of the box except the tanks. Only thing I would've changed is slightly longer hoses, maybe 1.5 times the length.

 

[GaryM909]

I have a couple of Victor Journeyman sets. They work good and tips are easy to find. Smith and Harris are good too but stay away from cheap knockoffs.

I tried running propane through a type R hose about 10 years ago. Don't do it!! The hose started deteriorating after a couple 30 lb tanks. Now I use type T hose.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a line on 2 very gently used ones. Neither has been fired up in 10-20 years ! I just have to convince one of their owners to sell !!

 

[Lelandwelds]

sigh. here you are again derailing another thread by starting an argument on a subject that has nothing to do with the original subject matter. (aka: TROLLING)

more than one of us have noticed you are notorious for this. it appears, to the untrained eye, that such efforts are an attempt to somehow make yourself look more important and/or more intelligent.

just a friendly heads up: it isn't working.

Guilty. Sorry. Walking away and letting stuff go are not part of my skill set.

 

[bigb56]

I have a line on 2 very gently used ones. Neither has been fired up in 10-20 years ! I just have to convince one of their owners to sell !!

I wish you were closer, I have a medium sized set I need to sell, a Harris, with tons of tips.

 

[bigb56]

Here's a good sized torch