Oxyfuel torch for copper plumbing soldering

[KDonkey]

Hey guys,

Last year I was given a couple of gas bottles. 150cf o2 and 75cf c2h2. Welder neighbor split with his wife, and he didn't want to move these across the country in his pickup. I called airga$ and found out what these cost so I decided to move them to my new house. I just "forgot" to pull into the truck scales along the way.

I'm interested in oxyfuel cutting and welding but haven't bothered to get regulators, hoses or a torch yet.

So now I face replacing a valve that is soldered to a 1/2 inch copper pipe. It's an angle stop for a toilet, brass stem, I'm going to try to pull the stem out and find washers that fit but if I know my luck I wont find the seals and the valve won't go back together and my family's gonna be angry if we can't have water.

Can I get an oxyfuel torch with check valves, propane reg and hose, and use this for that purpose, instead of buying a bernzomatic and disposable gas bottles? I figure with even a 6' hose running to the BBQ bottle this might be more nimble than the bernzomatic blowtorch rigidly mounted to this disposable bottle (wa$te) the size of a fire extinguisher.

 

[theoldwizard1]

C2H2 is acetylene. Plumbers and A/C guys use this all of the time for brazing and soldering.

Do NOT use it with O2 (oxygen) on copper. It will melt copper pipe in seconds.

At a minimum, you will need special tips for your torch for just acetylene, possibly a whole new torch.

 

[Firebrick43]

Do NOT use it with O2 (oxygen) on copper. It will melt copper pipe in seconds.

Whattttt???
I don't know what land your wizardry is of but here on earth oxy acetylene works just fine on copper pipe. I use it all the time to silver braze fittings. You just have to change tips to a smaller size.

A air acetylene torch does work as does a oxy propane. Problem is you loose a lot of versatility. An oxy propane torch can not weld steel and an acetylene air can not cut steel. For plain old soft solder stick with your map gas bottles.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Whattttt???
I don't know what land your wizardry is of but here on earth oxy acetylene works just fine on copper pipe.

Yeah, I guess I said that wrong !

Oxy acetylene takes the right tip and a gentle touch or you can melt the copper !

Air acetylene is much more common in plumbing and A/C simply because those guys don't want to haul around 2 bottle.

For plain old soft solder stick with your map gas bottles.

They haven't made "true" MAPP gas in years ! MAPP Pro is not much hotter than propane.

 

[1950mercury]

I'd just go buy a small propane tank and a torch that scrrws onto it and be done with it. You will use it for other things. That or buy a shark bite fitting and not even use a torch.

Don't listen to wizard he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to soldering or welding.

 

[lazer50]

Having used oxy/acetylene to solder in similar situations.several times i should say as the need came up in an industrial job.its easy for me having done it quite a few times.im sure you want to get your torches set up for various projects in the future.but in this situation you may be better off going ahead and using a mapp/propane torch.im not suggesting you couldnt get your fitting repaired with the other setup.but in this one time family needing water deal.i would use the mapp/propane.easier to handle,cheap,reusable and you'll probably use again.

 

[Superbec]

please sell the bottles or get proper training , no not internet training

 

[KDonkey]

I want to get the oxyfuel torch head & equipment because i'm interested in cutting and gas-welding. I don't want to waste o2 or c2h2 on soldering work.

For working on the pipe I imagined it might be possible to use it with propane only. As long as I have check valves in the torch body or inline ones at the hose connections. Good idea or bad?

 

[speed bump]

Cheapest answer is cut the soldered on valve off and replace it. New 1/4 turn valve is less than $10.

 

[gmwelder86]

Yes cut the old valve off. Replace with compression style. No need to worry about flame inside of the house or fire hazard. I've used oxy act torches for soldering and brazing but only when your talking 3"+ for soldering. It's a little faster than a turbo torch just have to watch how you move your heat around

 

[skruft]

Without getting into the debate, you can do it any of these ways. The easiest is, if the "stub-out" is long enough, cut off the valve and install a 1/4 turn compression or shark-bite valve. Try to avoid ever having a very short stub so close to the wall that you cannot change the valve easily.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Cheapest answer is cut the soldered on valve off and replace it. New 1/4 turn valve is less than $10.

Yes cut the old valve off. Replace with compression style.

Especially it is a "stop" (shut off) under a sink !

If I ever have to re-plumb a bathroom I will use PEX and copper stub outs.

Then I will use compression fittings for the stops.

 

[mikebaker1129]

Whattttt???
I don't know what land your wizardry is of but here on earth oxy acetylene works just fine on copper pipe. I use it all the time to silver braze fittings. You just have to change tips to a smaller size.

A air acetylene torch does work as does a oxy propane. Problem is you loose a lot of versatility. An oxy propane torch can not weld steel and an acetylene air can not cut steel. For plain old soft solder stick with your map gas bottles.

This is good advice! Having been in the HVAC business my nature life,yes we use oxy/ acet rigs mostly for brazing with 15% silver solder.
It is very easy to get copper too hot when trying to solder plumbing fittings with an oxy/ acet torch.a propane or map gas would be easier to use . Clean fittings with Emory cloth,flux and heat until pink and then apply the solder.
Good luck,it is really not that difficult.

 

[KDonkey]

Cool! I can use a valve with a compression fitting for the supply side. I didn't know that, thank you very much for clueing me in. I definitely see the advantage of the quarter turn style. Thanks guys!

 

[rlitman]

I want to get the oxyfuel torch head & equipment because i'm interested in cutting and gas-welding. I don't want to waste o2 or c2h2 on soldering work.

For working on the pipe I imagined it might be possible to use it with propane only. As long as I have check valves in the torch body or inline ones at the hose connections. Good idea or bad?

You're imagining wrong.

An oxy-fuel torch will not work without oxygen. They are not designed to work with fuel and air alone, as they have no way to mix air with the fuel within the torch. The flame they will produce with the oxygen turned off is not useful for any purpose other than to turn things black with soot (which is actually useful in some cases, but not all that often).

As for using oxy-fuel on plumbing, I think many of the issues have been spelled out above. It can easily boil off your solder (being far too hot, and having too concentrated heat at that), and can even melt your copper (if you're pretty inept), and just isn't appropriate for the task.

An air-fuel torch will work with just your acetylene fuel, but it is a completely different beast. Yes, you can adapt one to use your 75CF cylinder, but it's not the type of tank that people often lug around for plumbing purposes, and I wouldn't recommend it. There's a reason that 40CF "B" cylinders are most often used for this purpose. If you decide to go this route, you'll likely discover that none of your equipment will serve double-duty.

 

[PBCampbell]

Harris used to (maybe still does) have a mixing valve for fuel/air that worked on certain oxy/fuel handles.

 

[MDK22]

lol I just use a propane torch for soldering water pipes. If silver solder it needs to be hotter use MAP. I see no reason on earth you need more then that. Anything more is just overkill. It doesn't even need the oxygen with it. You can get it with it but, you do not need it.

Also considering i have soldered solid 18awg with your regular bernzomatic torch ya you can do plumbing work with oxy-acetalene. The thing you need to ask yourself is though do you need it and in this application you do not.

As for those saying compression fittings, being a mechanic I would go with soldered its much stronger if done right.

If you choose to go my route I recommend this: Bernzomatic - TS8000BZKC-Max Heat Torch Kit for Faster Work Times
I also recommend you get this: Oatey - 31400 Bagged 9-Inch x 12-Inch Flame Protector

They sell both at most box stores. You can put the mat behind stuff so you do not burn things you do not want too. The mat works extremely well and saved plastic tile in my 1950s era correct (vintage) upstairs bathroom (Never got remodeled). The torch is adjustable which helps save fuel and allows more control over the flame this is very useful when using the MAP gas.

If you want to go more powerful they do make: Bernzomatic - OX2550KC-Cutting, Welding, and Brazing Torch Kit

 

[rlitman]

lol I just use a propane torch for soldering water pipes. If silver solder it needs to be hotter use MAP. I see no reason on earth you need more then that. Anything more is just overkill. It doesn't even need the oxygen with it. You can get it with it but, you do not need it.

Also considering i have soldered solid 18awg with your regular bernzomatic torch ya you can do plumbing work with oxy-acetalene. The thing you need to ask yourself is though do you need it and in this application you do not.

As for those saying compression fittings, being a mechanic I would go with soldered its much stronger if done right.

If you choose to go my route I recommend this: Bernzomatic - TS8000BZKC-Max Heat Torch Kit for Faster Work Times
I also recommend you get this: Oatey - 31400 Bagged 9-Inch x 12-Inch Flame Protector

They sell both at most box stores. You can put the mat behind stuff so you do not burn things you do not want too. The mat works extremely well and saved plastic tile in my 1950s era correct (vintage) upstairs bathroom (Never got remodeled). The torch is adjustable which helps save fuel and allows more control over the flame this is very useful when using the MAP gas.

If you want to go more powerful they do make: Bernzomatic - OX2550KC-Cutting, Welding, and Brazing Torch Kit

That trigger start torch is ok, but I find that the bottle being attached to the torch keeps getting in the way. I'd much sooner recommend a torch with a hose. Bernzomatic offers a swirl flame torch (suitable for most plumbing jobs) with a hose. The hose makes a HUGE difference.

That flame protector is really good.
The Bernzomatic oxy-fuel torch is utter ****! Stay away from that garbage.

As for how I handle my stub outs. I sweat on a copper male threaded end (usually a 1/2" MPT) and screw on a 1/4 turn valve onto that. If I need to replace the valve, I shut the valve upstream, and just unscrew the valve and replace.

 

[Danglerb]

Practice on some junk parts in a safe location, but for a behind the toilet shut off valve, I would keep it simple, cut and use a compression fitting.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Practice on some junk parts in a safe location, but for a behind the toilet shut off valve, I would keep it simple, cut and use a compression fitting.

By FAR the BEST ADVICE !