P&C Stuff

[MR.X]

Some small stuff out of a machinist chest. Cool Blackhawk breaker, Armstrong doe D-3 U.S.N. and P&C Plomb clone 1/4" ratchet with unusual 41 date code.

 

[Beerhippie]

Found this little 1/4" set at a yard sale today:



All P&C, but maybe not the same era? Seems nearly complete, just missing 1/2" and maybe a ratchet--if it came with one.

The box was marked "US made 1/4" set" with masking tape. I was about blown away when I opened it and saw the decal! I was completely blown away when I looked closer and saw EVERYTHING in the box was P&C!

I think it was $5 well spent....

Did P&C also have a plant or office in Portland? Milwaukee has always been a separate, incorporated town.

 

[Beerhippie]

The sockets:



Dups in 1/4 and 5/16 are 6 pt and 12 pt.

 

[Outlawmws]

That's a nice set Timm! Decal looks perfect too!

I'd not be surprised if the kit came without the ratchet. If someone has the catalog, that should say.

 

[stormking]

Love leather handles!

 

[mritchie77]

Found this little 1/4" set at a yard sale today:



All P&C, but maybe not the same era? Seems nearly complete, just missing 1/2" and maybe a ratchet--if it came with one.

The box was marked "US made 1/4" set" with masking tape. I was about blown away when I opened it and saw the decal! I was completely blown away when I looked closer and saw EVERYTHING in the box was P&C!

I think it was $5 well spent....

Did P&C also have a plant or office in Portland? Milwaukee has always been a separate, incorporated town.

From the P&C 1939 catalog.

 

[Beerhippie]

From the P&C 1939 catalog.

Thanks! Looks like it's more than complete.

 

[Beerhippie]

The sockets:



Dups in 1/4 and 5/16 are 6 pt and 12 pt.

So, just a wild-*** guess here, but are the smooth-sided sockets and the reduced dia. ones of different ages? Guessing again, but the reduced look older to me. I also note that the 6pt. 1/4" has been user-modified.

Got things to look for next time out....

 

[Provincial]

Some could have been replaced under warranty by later pieces. Still a great find!

 

[MR.X]

Deleted

 

[stormking]

Interesting, I don't remember ever seeing a pre acquisition blue box. Always black or green, they supposedly had brown also but I've never seen one.

 

[MR.X]

Yeah, I’m not falling on my sword over it. I guess that box does look later, I'm thinking I probably just don't remember seeing a DECAL like that with the the top of the P and the C matching the slope of the hex (as opposed to being parallel) on a post acquisition box. I wonder then if the 39 Cat. is really the best choice to determine contents..all of the chrome tools being shown in Beer hippies find look pretty clearly to be post 1940. Hey that guy in Cleveland with the “1” drive pebble breaker…….turned out to be a 3/4”…..,of course.

 

[Beerhippie]

From the P&C 1939 catalog.

Do you have pg. 5 of that catalog?

 

[mritchie77]

Do you have pg. 5 of that catalog?

You can find the whole thing scanned here: 1939 P&C Tools Catalog 40

 

[Beerhippie]

You can find the whole thing scanned here: 1939 P&C Tools Catalog 40

Thanks again! Just what I needed. My Google-Fu is no longer strong....

 

[stormking]

Ya, I figured that it looked a bit small from the picture. The hunt goes on.

Yeah, I’m not falling on my sword over it. Hey that guy in Cleveland with the “1” drive pebble breaker…….turned out to be a 3/4”…..,of course.

 

[3baygarage]

Love leather handles!

Talk about rare. Pretty cool.

 

[Outlawmws]

Love leather handles!

I don't think Ive ever seen driver tool with leather like that - Hunting/combat knives, yes, never a screwdriver. Very cool!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's how weird the transition period for p&c was

 

[MR.X]

Found this little 1/4" set at a yard sale today:





Did P&C also have a plant or office in Portland? Milwaukee has always been a separate, incorporated town.

I assume you're referring to "Portland" on the decal. There was a retail arm of P&C in the late 20's in Portland but I think the simplest answer is that the company probably just thought it made sense to put a location that someone outside of Oregon would recognize. Thorsen used Oakland instead of their actual Emeryville factory location. BTW, Surprisingly Milwauk(ee) Tool & Forge (Wisconsin)had a listing in old 20's era Portland Phonebooks which also must have caused some confusion.

 

[MR.X]

Here's how weird the transition period for p&c was

I remember when you bought that. Beside that one sweet older P&C socket shown and the "inc." decal slapped on the Plomb box, where there any other P&C tools in there?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

No you just got one p&c socket in a box of plomb tools with a p&c decal

 

[Beerhippie]

I assume you're referring to "Portland" on the decal. There was a retail arm of P&C in the late 20's in Portland but I think the simplest answer is that the company probably just thought it made sense to put a location that someone outside of Oregon would recognize. Thorsen used Oakland instead of their actual Emeryville factory location. BTW, Surprisingly Milwauk(ee) Tool & Forge (Wisconsin)had a listing in old 20's era Portland Phonebooks which also must have caused some confusion.

Aw, hell, as late as the '70s, most folks outside Oregon didn't recognize Oregon!

The Oregon trail was a path to California....

 

[MR.X]

Aw, hell, as late as the '70s, most folks outside Oregon didn't recognize Oregon!

The Oregon trail was a path to California....

Yeah, I could have said outside of Milwaukee. Same concept.

 

[MR.X]

I have some 20’s catalogs that have “Milwaukee, Oregon suburb of Portland” printed on their cover.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Added the 1/2" version of this captive plug ratchet

 

[MR.X]

So here’s a mid 20’s “suburb” cat and also a couple with P&C’s Portland retail connection General Tool stickers affixed. You might notice the infamous Ned Boyd’s address is the next block over from General Tool assuming those are both West side addresses.

 

[Beerhippie]

Milwaukie, OR incorporated Feb. 4, 1903--a little earlier than those cats, I think.

https://www.milwaukieoregon.gov/cityrecorder/milwaukie-historical-timeline

Part of the confusion may be due to the P&C plant being at the extreme north end of Milwaukie, which may well not have been incorporated at that time.

I grew up a little ways south of Milwaukie in an old house that was originally a station on the Oregon Electric RR Oregon City Branch. The old RR embankment ran through our backyard.

 

[MR.X]

Milwaukie, OR incorporated Feb. 4, 1903--a little earlier than those cats, I think.

https://www.milwaukieoregon.gov/cityrecorder/milwaukie-historical-timeline

Part of the confusion may be due to the P&C plant being at the extreme north end of Milwaukie, which may well not have been incorporated at that time.

I grew up a little ways south of Milwaukie in an old house that was originally a station on the Oregon Electric RR Oregon City Branch. The old RR embankment ran through our backyard.

I'm not sure there's any confusion.....No doubt Peterson & Carlborg were well aware of their new factory's exact legal status ref. location and tax liabilities.....Suburb means different things to different people, pretty sure they weren't concerned with a legal definition when deciding what was best to put on their catalogs, though they did end up changing it,.. who knows, maybe for that very reason. Also, I was just showing a Portland connection though it wasn't a factory. The very first time I walked into General Tool when they were in NW Portland, a Salesman mentioned to me that they used to originally be P&C tool which ended up being partly true. I added the thing about Thorsen, (which was founded by a partner in Portland's General Tool and the original guy who talked P&C into a sort of exclusive sales agreement) because while there's people who had decent and probably partly true theories about why they used Oakland, the 2nd owner in a memoir literally said it was because no one knew where Emeryville. was. Simplest answer.
Alameda and Grant HS, NE Portland.

 

[Smokeshow69]

So there I was bemoaning the fact that I don’t have many p&c tools, most of all a sweet 1/4 drive set like the one Beerhippie found a couple of weeks ago. As a native Oregonian it’s a serious crime to not have a set like that from the home team. Lo and behold, four cycle was super nice and sent me this one! It is dirty but will clean up! The tools are in really good shape. But now I am in a quandary, I need to find the missing tools. So far the sockets that are in the set are 9/32, 5/16, 11/32 and 3/8. Also included is the 6” extension. Any have the missing ratchet or extensions or the sockets?

 

[Outlawmws]

Good on Four.C for sending that!

It may not have come with the ratchet, so that may not be technically MIA.

 

[bmwrd0]

I might have some spares for that, Smoke. Next time you are down here, we can dig for them.

 

[MR.X]

Good on Four.C for sending that!

It may not have come with the ratchet, so that may not be technically MIA.

I agree. I'm far from an expert on post war P&C but that looks like a mix of era tools pre and post trademark? and an early 60's box.... IF that is the box from the 63 cat then it had 3 set choices 2000-a, c or f and the "a" was the only one without the 0256. Smoke, you'll undoubtedly see Aaron before me but you're obviously welcome to go through my 1/4" stuff when I hit PDX if you're still short.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I might have some spares for that, Smoke. Next time you are down here, we can dig for them.

Thanks! I need to come down for round 2 on your Proto stash anyway

I agree. I'm far from an expert on post war P&C but that looks like a mix of era tools pre and post trademark? and an early 60's box.... IF that is the box from the 63 cat then it had 3 set choices 2000-a, c or f and the "a" was the only one without the 0256. Smoke, you'll undoubtedly see Aaron before me but you're obviously welcome to go through my 1/4" stuff when I hit PDX if you're still short.

Thanks for the offer! To me this definitely screams Proto mfd era tools so 60’s for sure. It matches all my other Proto sets aside from the markings

 

[Provincial]

Smoke, you can pick through my stuff, too.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Smoke, you can pick through my stuff, too.

Thanks. I’d like to come see what you have cookin in the shop again some time this summer season !

 

[bmwrd0]

We should have a meet up at Provincials! It is a great shop to spend time in.

 

[Smokeshow69]

We should have a meet up at Provincials! It is a great shop to spend time in.

Heck yeah! One day when I grow up I want a shop like that

 

[jabberwoki]

So there I was bemoaning the fact that I don’t have many p&c tools, most of all a sweet 1/4 drive set like the one Beerhippie found a couple of weeks ago. As a native Oregonian it’s a serious crime to not have a set like that from the home team. Lo and behold, four cycle was super nice and sent me this one! It is dirty but will clean up! The tools are in really good shape. But now I am in a quandary, I need to find the missing tools. So far the sockets that are in the set are 9/32, 5/16, 11/32 and 3/8. Also included is the 6” extension. Any have the missing ratchet or extensions or the sockets?

Pm me to remind me

 

[stormking]

One of the guys I work with brought this to me. He knows I like P&C so thought of me. I knew they existed but never seen one. For 3/8" drive metric sockets. It's going to be hard to fill they're about nonexistent.