P & H Arc Welder

[blazemaster83]

I have been looking for a welder for a while. I have never welded, but I have taught myself everything so far, so why not this? A buddy of mine was cleaning out a building on a property he bought, and found this welder. He tested it and said that it works, and sold it to me for a song since he has an array of welders already. It weighs a lot, my roommate and I could barely get it into his truck. Im guessing close to 300lbs.

I had never heard of the brand, but it looked well made and I love restoring old stuff so I decided to grab it. I am guessing it was made in the 40's, and in pretty good shape. I think the body is made of cast iron, with some sheet metal wrapped around it. Somebody added the rolling frame, and welded the machine to it. It came with a stinger, and a ground. There is also an electrical box that looks like it was added, to the backside.

It gets weird. The machine says it is single phase on the front plate. However, the plug is for 3 phase and my buddy tested it with 3 phase. There is also an unmarked toggle switch that looks like it was added to the side of the machine. The plug comes out of the added electrical box, so I am guessing it was changed to 3 phase...is that normal? I have heard of changing a 3 phase machine to single phase, but why would it be changed to 3 phase? I have not opened up anything to look, I thought I would just see if anyone had seen this type of thing before.

I have not tested it myself, I don't have any rod to use. There is one in the stinger but it is crumbling because of the age, i figured it was useless. It could probably use a new ground clamp, it just has an ugly bent plate. Has anybody heard of P & H? is it quality? I couldn't find anything. Anyways, thanks for looking!

 

[Alchymist]

My guess would be a single phase machine - the three phase plug probably picked up two phases, third phase not used, or 1 phase and neutral, depending on how the building was wired originally. Open her up and see.....

 

[blazemaster83]

Alchymist, seems you are right. I opened up the rear electrical box and the components look to be original. I think the owner just put a 3 phase plug on it and ran it off 3 phase. Is it going to hurt the machine? Forgive me if I sound ignorant, I didn't know you could run single phase stuff off 3 phase.

The good side is I tested it out with the scrap rod that was left on the machine, some 7014. It seems to work fine on 3 phase. So unless it hurts the machine, I will probably just leave it that way.

Here is a pic of my first weld, really have no clue what I am doing other than a few vids I have seen. I took 2 small passes with the machine set to 150amps, then the rod was used up. Will have to grab more, it was fun!

 

[JimDon]

Well, now ya went and woke me up, and I had to fire up the desktop so I could type on a real keyboard and answer some of your question and help ya out a bit, and since I'm awake and all, I may as well pour myself another drink and oh, yeah, P&H.
Well, P&H is the forerunner to the Harnischfeger Company, which was bought by Joy Global a number of years ago, but it's been around for EVER. And when they first started putting together their steam shovels, (and I am serious about this, that's how far back that machine goes) and drag lines, and derricks and such, they were buying welders from commercial companies that make welders, but for the most part, what they were getting were ****. So they went to their own engineers and asked them to make a welder that they could produce on their own to build their own heavy equipment, and voila, you had P&H welders. And you're right these date back to the 30s and the 40s, and the duty cycle on them is infinite, even at the highest amps. And many of them are still in use today, and they are all solid copper wiring inside and they weigh a ton, well not quite, but you know what I mean. If I remember correctly, they did make some that could be changed out and be either 3-phase or single. If you go on the Weld Talk forum, which is sponsored by Hobart, you will find a whole **** load of threads about the P&H welders, and there are guys there that like worship the ground that those monsters sit on. There's even threads about converting them to TIG machines with water cooled torches, and you can TIG shut the ***-crack of dawn with a P&H welder because of its power and duty cycle. The Guru on the forum is ViceGrip, who has unprecedented knowledge on the P&H machine and is a great guy who will answer your questions if you PM him and ask him nicely and tell him I sent you, and I do owe him one anyway, so just chalk it up on my tab and I'll pay him later for another favor. Anyway, hope that helps you out some and man that is a heck of a welder so take care of it. It will probabaly last you and you'll be able to pass it on down to grandchildren who will also get a serviceable life out of it. Now back to my regularly scheduled Brandy.
Cheers,
Jim Don

 

[plierwire]

I posted this in another thread, but in case you didn't see it:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ining-materials/Pages/training-materials.aspx

Check out the "e-learning course" and the Powerpoints. They are very, very thorough.

Remember: If anything is wet - the floor, your hand, the object, the table - don't strike an arc! That is one of the most dangerous things that many self-taught welders forget!

Also - be sure to carefully inspect that old electrode cable for any bare spots. If you find any, be sure to replace it.

Oh - and have fun with the new machine!

 

[blazemaster83]

Thank you both for the info, very much appreciated.

JimDon- that is exactly what I wanted to hear. It looks like its built like a tank, and seems to weld really well. I was curious about the duty cycle on it, since it just says "1/2 hour rating". I will certainly take care of it, I plan on stripping it and repainting. If this is as good of a machine as you say, I will plan on keeping it forever and passing it on.

I will look up the machine on Weldtalk forum, and get ahold of Vicegrip, I really appreciate it.

Plierwire-I will definitely check it out. Looks to be some great info.

 

[JimDon]

Half hour duty cycle -- BULL ROAR-- I bet those old millwrights at P&H ran those things hours on end. Way under rated. But seriously though, if you weld at all, with fit up and moving around and stopping and starting and changing rods ina machine, it is really hard to hit your max cycle,. In classes, I'd weld like a maniac and it was often tough to get the auto fans to kick in to cool the machine!!!! Learn to run some 7018 with that unit and you will never want to run anything else. You do it right and the slag will peal up like a bug schucking its exo skeleton as the weld cools. You will hardly have to hit it with a hammer and it'll peel off. And unless you're certified doing bridges, don't worry about a heater for 7018. Just keep it dry in the tube and you'll be fine.
Jim

 

[Major Ramifications]

you can TIG shut the ***-crack of dawn with a P&H welder

That's a good one!

 

[sberry]

Its an old AC buzz box and it says plain as day on the front that its single phase, no real mystery,,,, none, why would anyone hook it to 3 ph especially when its obvious a plug has been changed.

 

[Alchymist]

Its an old AC buzz box and it says plain as day on the front that its single phase, no real mystery,,,, none, why would anyone hook it to 3 ph especially when its obvious a plug has been changed.

Single phase loads can be run from 3 phase sources - phase to neutral can be 208, 220, sometimes phase to phase. Depends on the service and the load...

 

[sberry]

While this is true it is kind of beside the point, it would be worth it to look under the jacket to see what the switch is, possible replacement for the off/on likely. If if is its not a legal switch, this machine needs one that breaks both poles. Also this is not a good 7018 machine, the AC versions will run work pretty well and it might run dc ones but not great.

 

[blazemaster83]

Pretty sure the previous owner hooked it up to 3 phase, simply because every other thing on the property was 3 phase also. The rolling base was welded to the machine, yesterday i ground down the welds and removed the rolling base. The shell is another matter. To get it off I will need to cut a few wires, and solder them back together when the box gets put back together. A bigger project than I was hoping. As it sits, the welder seems to work fine on my 10hp RPC, so until I do a full restoration and gut the machine, I will probably just leave it as is. The on/off switch works, so I am not sure what the switch on the side is. I will leave it alone until I figure out more. Thanks again!

 

[Ben Iv]

Very cool machine, id be very tempted to just leave the paint as is. That machine has seen alot I bet.