Padlocking service disconnect box (exterior)?

[red92s]

We live in an area that is subject to occasional smash/grab residential burglaries. In a lot of these, they are cutting power to the home at the main service breaker on the exterior of the house in an attempt to kill alarms.

Our alarm is on a battery backup, but I'd like to "harden the target" by securing the exterior service disconnect. Hopefully if they find that inaccessible, they will move on.

The disconnect box has the basic little metal hasp with a hole to keep it closed, and allow one of the "security tags" to be installed on it. A padlock would fit that hasp, but it's so thin and flimsy I think you would probably just twist the lock and get some leverage to pop the hasp off the box.

I'm not going for Fort Knox here. I'd still like the fire department to be able to get in with a pair of bolt cutters should they need to. Any good methods for securing it?

 

[sublimate]

How about a motion-detected light aimed at the disconnect area and/or wire the box into your alarm so as soon as someone tries to open it it sets of a siren nearby.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Those with better code knowledge than me, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's legal to lock a residence service disconnect in the "on" position...

Tommy

 

[red92s]

Those with better code knowledge than me, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's legal to lock a residence service disconnect in the "on" position...

Tommy

From what I've been able to find online, there is no requirement that the disconnect be freely accessible . . .just that it exists. But again, this is my understanding from some cursory googling, and defer to those more knowledgeable.

 

[red92s]

How about a motion-detected light aimed at the disconnect area and/or wire the box into your alarm so as soon as someone tries to open it it sets of a siren nearby.

Most of these happen during the day, when they have a high probability of finding an empty house, so lighting isn't a big help.

The alarm idea is a interesting. Our alarm panel uses wireless sensors, and there are some rated for outdoor use, so that'd be a pretty easy addition.

 

[BFBOB]

Most of these happen during the day, when they have a high probability of finding an empty house, so lighting isn't a big help.

The alarm idea is a interesting. Our alarm panel uses wireless sensors, and there are some rated for outdoor use, so that'd be a pretty easy addition.

Yes. In this case, put the transmitter and magnet on the outside of the box. Don't rely solely on the double-stick tape, also run a bead of silicone around them. The disconnect box is probably steel, so be sure to get the magnet in close proximity to the transmitter - 1/4" max. In this case, we're not concerned with concealing the alarm equipment; let'em tamper with it before opening the disconnect box. It'll just give earlier warning. If you have the option, program that zone for alarm when armed, trouble when disarmed. That will get you a call from the central station whenever it's opened, and then you can decide whether to dispatch.

You can do this even if your transmitters aren't outdoor rated. Just seal the seams and openings with silicone. It will seal just fine, last forever and peel off easily when it's time to replace the battery.

The same technique can be used for protecting a/c compressor units in high-crime areas. It may be less effective, though, because the a/c thieves tend to be pretty well organized. Two stout lads and a pickup, gone in sixty seconds.

 

[G_P]

Why do they even put shutoffs on the outside of homes? Never seen anything like that up here in CT. Just seems like neighborhood kids would be constantly shutting them off as a prank.

If the FD needs to kill power to the homes up here they can just yank the meter. But they always just stand around and wait for the POCO to come and disconnect the drop.

 

[Mustang51js]

Why do they even put shutoffs on the outside of homes? Never seen anything like that up here in CT. Just seems like neighborhood kids would be constantly shutting them off as a prank.

If the FD needs to kill power to the homes up here they can just yank the meter. But they always just stand around and wait for the POCO to come and disconnect the drop.

I think it's more of a west coast thing because you never see that around here. But op you could get a camera system or even the fake cameras pointed at the disconnect area where it would be easy for someone to see

 

[Norcal]

If there is a padlock there & the FD needs to access it, bolt cutters will make that a non issue.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Special locks just for this purpose are made. They are called frangible shackle locks.
Some construction plans call for them.

They're built to foil casual entrance, but afford access to Emergency Personal. They can be broken with a crowbar.


Like Norcal said, they carry bolt cutters and if they want to get in they will.

 

[G_P]

If they really want your power off anyone could snip off the little tamper tag and rip out the meter.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Never really heard of people messing with main disconnects here in Cali!

 

[Norcal]

Any decent pair of dykes will cut the hasp off a residential panel, not that I would recommend it as it's a quick way to ruin a good tool.

 

[Executive]

The NEC requires a disconnect "nearest the point of entrance" of service entrance conductors. If this is not practical, a disconnect is installed outside. This is common and not really a regional thing. There is no code requirement that a locked disconnect be manually operable as the overload protection of a breaker type disconnect is internal and will operate automatically as will fuses. A decent quality "meter main".will have the outside circuit breaker type main behind a weatherproof lockable cover. These are meant to be tamper resistant, but are not really security devices.you could always fabricate some type of higher security cover but you do run the risk of violating the listing of the equipment. I would also check local building and fire codes which may require additional measures including the installation of a "Knox Box" type device for the FD.

Keeping the area visible/well lit seems a logical start. I can think of a few more diabolical (and illegal) ideas to keep the riff-raff away from an electrical main...

Chris

 

[Mustang51js]

The NEC requires a disconnect "nearest the point of entrance" of service entrance conductors. If this is not practical, a disconnect is installed outside. This is common and not really a regional thing. There is no code requirement that a locked disconnect be manually operable as the overload protection of a breaker type disconnect is internal and will operate automatically as will fuses. A decent quality "meter main".will have the outside circuit breaker type main behind a weatherproof lockable cover. These are meant to be tamper resistant, but are not really security devices.you could always fabricate some type of higher security cover but you do run the risk of violating the listing of the equipment. I would also check local building and fire codes which may require additional measures including the installation of a "Knox Box" type device for the FD.

Keeping the area visible/well lit seems a logical start. I can think of a few more diabolical (and illegal) ideas to keep the riff-raff away from an electrical main...

Chris

The point of my message was that in Cali I think most of the houses have a main on the outside or the whole panel on the outside of the house, that's what I got from other threads in the past. Whereas on the east coast we go by the nearest point of entry for the panel

 

[NUTTSGT]

If the FD needs to kill power to the homes up here they can just yank the meter. But they always just stand around and wait for the POCO to come and disconnect the drop.

Pulling a meter can be alot more dangerous than just "pulling the meter". When at all possible, the FD is going to let the power company do their job. Around here, they'd rather we call them and let them pull it.

If there is a padlock there & the FD needs to access it, bolt cutters will make that a non issue.

I believe almost every engine or pumper has bolt cutters on it, they are standard tools. Cutting a padlock is no big deal.

If they really want your power off anyone could snip off the little tamper tag and rip out the meter.

You're right anyone could pull the meter but the typical smash & grab thief doesn't want to take the time for something like that.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If I had that issue like the OP, I'd put a padlock on it. If someone from the power company or FD comes along and tells you to remove it, then take it off.

I highly doubt the power co is going to disconnect service because of the lock, they might cut the lock themselves if you're not home.

The FD will tell you to take it off, they won't fine you.

The building dept or code official, maybe try to fine you but you should get a warning first. If anything, playing stupid will work. . . what lock ? that's not mine, damn neighborhood kids.

 

[Aceman]

Putting a padlock on a panel/disconnect is fine. For example, it's done all the time for city sewage lift stations, etc where an accidental/intentional shutoff could cause a sewage backup.

 

[JohnX14]

As others mentioned, padlock is fine. I like the idea of the alarm contact, but I'd place the wireless contact indoors and hard wire to a magnetic contact on the disconnect as it will be more weather resistant. Many wireless contacts have terminals for this purpose.

 

[red92s]

Thanks all. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be violating code. I've got no doubts the FD department could get through whatever I put on there in seconds.

These are not experienced crooks carrying a bag of tools. These are young guys who kick a door in, grab a laptop and TV, and get out. Not that cutting power to our house would disable the alarm (its on a battery backup), but ideally they'd get to that point, see the lock, and move along to a softer target. I'm banking that it'd be as much of a visual deterrent as it would be a physical one.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The point of my message was that in Cali I think most of the houses have a main on the outside or the whole panel on the outside of the house, that's what I got from other threads in the past. Whereas on the east coast we go by the nearest point of entry for the panel

I live in Cali and every house Ive worked on or lived in had the meter main on the outside with only a few that had a divorced meter and separate main service panel both on the outside. Ive never heard of anyone having issues with someone messing with breakers...

 

[rockwithjason]

Why do they even put shutoffs on the outside of homes? Never seen anything like that up here in CT. Just seems like neighborhood kids would be constantly shutting them off as a prank.

If the FD needs to kill power to the homes up here they can just yank the meter. But they always just stand around and wait for the POCO to come and disconnect the drop.

ever seen a meter explosion? I have and it ain't pretty. A guy here in the local union "just pulled the meter" and the resulting 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his arms and hands were nasty. there is a reason that meter servicemen wear full cat 2 or better ppe when pulling them.

 

[SALIV8]

I lock my second home's main 200 amp panel up with a small master lock. I keep it sprayed with lubricating oil every so often and have not had a problem in more than 2 years. This is not high security as the metal tabs are thinner but gives me peace of mind.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

ever seen a meter explosion? I have and it ain't pretty. A guy here in the local union "just pulled the meter" and the resulting 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his arms and hands were nasty. there is a reason that meter servicemen wear full cat 2 or better ppe when pulling them.

The meter was probably pulled while a load was running through it. Whenever i pull a meter i shut off ALL breakers first. When ive done main service panel swaps, the PoCo linemans have ALWAYS shut off ALL breakers first, verified there was no longer a load pulling electricty then pulled the meter. They next would cut the service drop one conductor at a time making sure to tape the ends. If theres was a load running through the service drop when the conductor was cut, the lineman would suffer equal consequences of being burned!

Do u have any pics?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

ever seen a meter explosion? I have and it ain't pretty. A guy here in the local union "just pulled the meter" and the resulting 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his arms and hands were nasty. there is a reason that meter servicemen wear full cat 2 or better ppe when pulling them.

The POCO changed to smart meters a couple of years ago. The guy came while I was home. Pickup truck full of meters, and a hand held scanner. He would read the old meter, enter it in the scanner and scan the meter barcode on the old meter, cut the seal, pull it, install the new meter, and scan the new bar code to associate the new bar code with the account.

No PPE was used, I think he might have had gloves on, not sure, no safety gear of any kind. He was going down the street doing each house/meter. Even changed the existing smart meter on the shop. I asked if it would stay, as it was already a smart meter (replaced a few months before due to a mechanical meter failure) and he said he was told to change them all, no matter what.

I've seen a POCO employee use PPE properly doing a hot splice when reconnecting the overhead triplex to my parents house after I replaced the meter and main panel and weatherhead, etc. (he would have had to kill 3 other houses to do a cold splice as the transformer supplied 4 houses, and didn't want to disturb the other's). But I've seen several meters pulled and nothing more than PPE gloves were used.

Not saying they shouldn't use PPE, just than in my small survey, they don't.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

To add to Charles post, the contractor installing smart meters for PG&E did not even shut off the main during the swap, I think they did not want to eat the cost if the breaker did not reset, I happened to be home when mine was swapped so shut off the main.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

To add to Charles post, the contractor installing smart meters for PG&E did not even shut off the main during the swap, I think they did not want to eat the cost if the breaker did not reset, I happened to be home when mine was swapped so shut off the main.

Wow. What an idiot. Guess they dont properly train their meter techs...

 

[rockwithjason]

The meter was probably pulled while a load was running through it. Whenever i pull a meter i shut off ALL breakers first. When ive done main service panel swaps, the PoCo linemans have ALWAYS shut off ALL breakers first, verified there was no longer a load pulling electricty then pulled the meter. They next would cut the service drop one conductor at a time making sure to tape the ends. If theres was a load running through the service drop when the conductor was cut, the lineman would suffer equal consequences of being burned!

Do u have any pics?

it was a no load condition on an underground fed installation. the insulator block failed and caused an explosion from the line side of the meter. No pics, privacy and all of that.

there was an unrelated incident a few years ago where a guy pulled a ct based meter and got burned so bad he is on full disability. lack of understanding on his part.

 

[rockwithjason]

No PPE was used, I think he might have had gloves on, not sure, no safety gear of any kind. He was going down the street doing each house/meter. Even changed the existing smart meter on the shop. I asked if it would stay, as it was already a smart meter (replaced a few months before due to a mechanical meter failure) and he said he was told to change them all, no matter what.

Not saying they shouldn't use PPE, just than in my small survey, they don't.

Charles

it's just like any other high risk activity, you can get away with it 100 times but 101 is a mutha.

they had a sub contractor doing them here. after several casualties policy changed quickly. under the newer regulations you can't subcontract away the liability anymore.