Paint/drywall expert - opinion needed

[kszach]

I have paint adhesion problems all over the house. I scraped the walls down in one of the bedrooms, mudded, textured, and painted. Now one room looks good. I'm looking for opinions on how to do this. The picture below is my next project area, a hallway. I ended up with an ugly room for about 2 years the last time I did this, I want to be much faster this time around.

I scraped this wall (pic above) with a 6in drywall knife. It came off in huge chunks (2-3' long and as wide as the knife). The areas where the paint is still adhered is the mud joints. The chips come off in a full layer, still has the drywall texture (weave like) on the back side. The wall has all sorts of flaws in it like bad mud jobs and painted over chips, gobs. I want a nice wall that I can walk by and not see flaws everywhere.

Do I scrape the entire wall then mud, prime, texture and paint? Can i just skip the scrape and go ahead with mud, texture and prime? When I had a drywall contractor in a couple years ago to replace a ceiling, she mentioned sealing the wall with a oil-based primer but I don't know if that was before or after the mud.

 

[gungatim]

now there's where I would use KIlz, but you need to find out where the moisture is coming from first.

can't help you on the mud/texture step, not sure why you would need to do that (unless you want textured walls?), just scrape the old paint and use the sealer primer, after you find out why you're getting moisture through the drywall. is there mold behind it?

 

[The Cobbler]

you need to scrape any loose off. no easy way out really . oil primer on bare drywall will raise the grain in the paper and be very rough. good latex primer is the best here.

what do you mean by "texture"? if you're texturing the walls you don't need a perfect base of mud as the texture hides sin.

 

[kszach]

I'm not sure if it is moisture. These are both interior and exterior walls. One thing about the house that I suspect.. I live in SE WI. This was a vacation home, we had a police officer tell us about a visit he had here before we moved in. The ADT alarm was tripped when the propane stove turned on during the summer and heated the house above the temp set point (which I do not know how high). I'm wondering if the high interior temps cause the paint issues. The house was built 10-15 year before this issue, maybe even 20 years. The house was built in 84. I just don't think moisture is an issue on an interior wall which is the wall from the picture.

 

[kszach]

sand texture.

 

[rippered]

I would guess dust under the paint or no primer. Also could have been sprayed and not back rolled or too cold when applied. You can't put something over paint thats not adhered properly.

 

[gungatim]

Ahhh, that could be it. propane gives off water as byproduct of combustion. lots of it actually. if that house was sealed up pretty good and it ran a stove with no flue outside, it's going to build up quite a bit of moisture in there. that would be a likely cause of the paint failure.

 

[CGT80]

Scrape and then use oil based primer. I hate kilz and I use zinzzer cover stain. Kilz is pushed by home depot but no one bothers to read the directions. Kilz says to sand glossy surfaces, cover stain goes over anything, including glass and tile. I have used many gallons of cover stain (oil and water based) and also 123 primer. In SoCal, the oil based cover stain only comes in quarts. The water based version is great, but water based primer is more likely to cause more peeling. There is also a zinzzer product made just for peeling surfaces, but I have not used it.

After the primer dries, you can sand any rough spots a bit if you want and test it with a scraper. Sometimes you will need to scrape and prime again with oil. You have to get to a tight surface. After that, float it out with mud, sand, prime, and paint. A setting mud can be laid on thicker and will harden faster, but it also takes a long time to dry if it is put on thick. Boxed mud can be thinned a bit and put on. Sometimes boxed mud goes on smoother, and it is easier to sand than setting mud. If you are going to texture the walls, you could even prime the patching and then texture. It may be overkill, but it will also give you a barrier to help keep the moisture from the texture from soaking into the bad base layer. It also makes a more uniform surface if you didn't cover the whole wall with patching. This really makes a difference if you are doing a knock down texture, as the rate of drying changes how the texture knocks down after a set period of time.

I didn't see anyone mention oil based paint. Water based paint that is put on over oil based paint, will not stick and will come off in sheets. If the texture is coming off and the paper or mud is exposed, then it does sound like a water issue.

The other option is to add another layer of drywall over the top of the walls and just start from scratch. I don't like the issues with adding a layer of drywall, but if you don't scrape all that old stuff off the walls, it is possible for it to peel later. Right now you may scrape all around an area where the existing mud and paint is tight and then encapsulate it, but the new primer and mud is only as good as the surface below.

I have run into this problem with concrete tilt up buildings, where water makes its way to the inside of the tilt up wall. In that case, I used drylock block sealer, which worked for at least a few years.

 

[mypov]

You will have to get any loose stuff off, if you add any mud/paint to a surface that is not bonded well underneath you will just end up with more pealing. I would go through and scrape everything off you can, then you can "float" the entire wall with mud, and sand/paint (kind of like a reset), or else you can do the scraping, then repair with mud in patches, if you are not comfortable doing the entire wall, then sand and paint. Aside from ripping the drywall out and starting with new drywall those are basically your options.
If you choose not to float the wall, I would use a primer that will adhere to both latex and oil based paint, then you should be fine as long as you have scraped all the loose paint off.
Not a fun job, if your house is really old you should be careful about lead based paint (but that's only if it is like original paint and the house was made pre 60's.

 

[pstnbly]

Loose material must be scarped away. Unevenness repaired with skim coats. Primed with PVA primer/sealer. Look for moisture intrusion or a high humidity condition to rule that out as that is potentially the cause. More likely bad prep and cheap paint with no or inappropriate primer is the cause. I don't believe in these magic 1 coat paint systems the big boxes are pushing now. There is no substitute for proper prep, a 3 coat paint process, and quality materials IMHO.

 

[Davidad1]

Possible the house was painted with a oil base paint and was painted over with a latex in the past . Like others have said , oil prime with a Kilz or Bins sealer and repaint


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[kszach]

I "think" it was poor prep on the original painting, likely dust. Nothing about this house was "sealed" prior to me moving in. I think they may have cut costs when it came to drywall and painting. Lots of tape seams can be seen, nail pops, and this paint chipping. I will be scraping the walls this weekend, hopefully get a layer of mud on too.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Jackfre]

We've just about finished re-modeling and the painter uses as a base coat called PVA. He said he won't paint Sheetrock without it.

 

[tfalk]

If you decide to use Kilz oil base, just be forewarned you need to do the entire wall and even using a flat over it, it will still reflect and you will see any imperfections under it. We had a leak in a ceiling due to the furnace drain freezing... patched and painted the seam with Kilz, took 6 coats of flat primer to finally kill the gloss.

 

[CGT80]

I don't believe in these magic 1 coat paint systems the big boxes are pushing now. There is no substitute for proper prep, a 3 coat paint process, and quality materials IMHO.

X2

The Behr Ultra Premium Plus worked well on some old wood windows on a Carl's Jr that I painted, when the product first came out. I was impressed and did not use primer. Other times, I have been burned.

Primer adheres and blocks stains. Paint is a stable finish that will resist weather and cleaning. It doesn't seem possible to get one product to do the job of both, and do it at the same level/quality as individual products.

I like 123 primer or water based coverstain and Behr Premium Plus. For the outside of my house I used coverstain and Ultra since it seems like it may be a more weather resistant paint. I am happy with how it turned out. $37 per gallon retail (I get 20% off for the pro rewards) is expensive enough for general painting. I have used very expensive SW paint and didn't find it to be any better than the few brands I would usually use.

 

[farphle]

I've been in a similar situation and found it faster and easier to just replace the drywall and start from scratch.

 

[mossyboy6]

I've been in a similar situation and found it faster and easier to just replace the drywall and start from scratch.

This is what I would suggest as well, depending on the project size.

 

[chase237]

Pic heavy reply warning, we have a room that had 3 coats of paint with the last one being what you see here. Stripes and built in shelf around two walls. Also in a high gloss paint.
My fix was lots of sanding, feathering the hard edges, fill damages areas and where the shelf was taken down, texture where needed, two coats of Kilz, two coats of Sherwin Williams.
Pain in the *** but it's done and looks great. There's no easy way to get from start to finish with bad paint. Really not helpful, I know, just want to encourage you to forge ahead the results can be satisfying.

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