I been painting for a few years an I got a new garage single car garage where I paint. My problem is that I been getting fish eyes not the ones with the dots but the crater ones. The problem only happens in the clear coat so I'm thinking water in lines but I have a sharpe 606 then a cheap craftsman one then into a devilbiss dryer an then black round one on gun. I also used different paint ppg an mybe my flash time was to short cause it looked dry but guess not underneath could that cause it I also had it under my radiant tube heater which cooked it an looked dry then I did other coats to soon mybe. I don't get fish eyes in base only in my clear. I use transtar kwik euro clear my choice have no problems with it besides the past job. I usually get a coupe big ones but this last hood I did it was the whole hood but baby ones. ***** doin used parts from ppl cause u never know what was on the part
Painters got a fish eye problem
- Thread starter Blkctsv05
- Start date
MP&C
Well-known member
Got pictures? Sounds almost more like solvent pop to me. Typically I'd say unless you changed to a different spray gun for the clear, then fisheye would have shown up in the basecoat if it were a contamination or air supply issue. If you had water in the line, you would actually see the water when it came out and beaded on top of the paint.. Pictures would help to better identify which problem you have..
BillK
Well-known member
blk,
Not sure how they would be with a DIY, but the paint rep or whoever you buy your paint from should be able to help you. It is in thier best interest to have their product workiing properly
That would be my first call.
Not sure how they would be with a DIY, but the paint rep or whoever you buy your paint from should be able to help you. It is in thier best interest to have their product workiing properly
That would be my first call.koditten
Well-known member
Have you had good luck with the same gun previously? Are you using the correct nozzle size. Nozzles do wear with use.
For primer and base I use 1 gun and my other is for just clear. I forget the difference size in tips because of just keeping the guns for their proper use is enough of a challenge
KO
For primer and base I use 1 gun and my other is for just clear. I forget the difference size in tips because of just keeping the guns for their proper use is enough of a challenge
KO
p_mori7
Well-known member
From the DuPont refinish guide:
*****
-Fish Eyes
Also known as: silicone contamination, poor wetting, saucering, pits, craters, cissing
Description: Small, crater-like opening in the finish after it has been applied.
Origin and Potential Causes: Improper or insufficient surface cleaning or preparation. Many waxes and polishes contain silicone, the most common cause of fish eyes. Silicones adhere firmly to the paint film and require extra effort for their removal. Even small quantities in sanding dust, rags can cause this type of failure.Effects of the old finish or previous repair. The old finish or previous repair may contain excessive amounts of silicone from additives used during their application. Usually solvent wiping will not remove embedded silicone.Contamination of air supply, by water or oil.Oil, wax, grease or silicone contamination.Use of silicone-containing polishes or aerosol sprays (e.g.: interior cleaners or dressings) in proximity to the spray area.
Prevention Techniques: Precautions should be taken to remove all traces of silicone by thoroughly cleaning the substrate.Drain and clean air pressure regulator daily to remove trapped moisture and dirt. Air compressor tank should also be drained daily.Regular maintenance of the air supply
Remedy: Apply light coats of basecoat until defect is covered.If required or recommended, use fish-eye eliminator.In severe cases, sand the affected areas, clean thoroughly, isolate and refinish.
*****
-Fish Eyes
Also known as: silicone contamination, poor wetting, saucering, pits, craters, cissing
Description: Small, crater-like opening in the finish after it has been applied.
Origin and Potential Causes: Improper or insufficient surface cleaning or preparation. Many waxes and polishes contain silicone, the most common cause of fish eyes. Silicones adhere firmly to the paint film and require extra effort for their removal. Even small quantities in sanding dust, rags can cause this type of failure.Effects of the old finish or previous repair. The old finish or previous repair may contain excessive amounts of silicone from additives used during their application. Usually solvent wiping will not remove embedded silicone.Contamination of air supply, by water or oil.Oil, wax, grease or silicone contamination.Use of silicone-containing polishes or aerosol sprays (e.g.: interior cleaners or dressings) in proximity to the spray area.
Prevention Techniques: Precautions should be taken to remove all traces of silicone by thoroughly cleaning the substrate.Drain and clean air pressure regulator daily to remove trapped moisture and dirt. Air compressor tank should also be drained daily.Regular maintenance of the air supply
Remedy: Apply light coats of basecoat until defect is covered.If required or recommended, use fish-eye eliminator.In severe cases, sand the affected areas, clean thoroughly, isolate and refinish.
KCarGuy
Well-known member
When I worked in a Body shop, I also had a Complete Gun for Primer, One for Metalics, One for Solid Colors and One for Clear Coats.
I also got Fish Eyes in my Clear Coat, when a guy was breaking down a Tire on a tire machine just outside our booth.
It pulled the sylicone through the fresh air filters into the booth.
We Moved the tire machine away from the booth and it never happened again.
Its Crazy how a hint of it in the area can affect the results.
I also got Fish Eyes in my Clear Coat, when a guy was breaking down a Tire on a tire machine just outside our booth.
It pulled the sylicone through the fresh air filters into the booth.
We Moved the tire machine away from the booth and it never happened again.
Its Crazy how a hint of it in the area can affect the results.
Big-Foot
Well-known member
Good info on the silicone contaminates.. A good friend owns a high end restoration shop and has banned all silicones from the building where they prep and spray. He said Armor All is one of the worst products because it outgasses and goes air born with a change in temperature even though the application may be weeks or months old..
I use one guy for everything 1.3 tip I did tail light the other week an no fish eyes in thinking since its a old hood myb it had stuff trapped in it. It only happen in clear coat mybe ill buy a new gun for clear coat an base an use that gun for primer. I also use air gun an I get no water coming threw it. I know what solvent pop looks like it anit that its tiny lil craters. The one truck I did few months ago I got some fish eyes around the plastic areas I'm assuming cause silicone shine here's a pic of the hood an after I wet sanded with 800 an 2 more layers of clear there's still some in there but real small
Syncrowave
New member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2011
- Messages
- 2
Have not read the whole thread, but are you using / have you tried Smoothie fisheye eliminator?
fdtrucks
Well-known member
I was a rep for ppg for a few years and grew up in a body shop. Check all your dryers and make sure they are drained. If using dessicant, it will absorb moisture to a point. Then once its absorbed all it can hold, the beads will explode and travel through your air lines. That **** has to be monitered closely.
As mentioned before. All detailing products need to be far away from the painting area. Even the so called "body shop safe".
Make sure you are allowing proper flash times and make sure your using the correct reducers/hardeners for the conditions.
What you have eaten recently can be a factor people dont realize. That quick lunch at McDonalds will bite you in the ***. When you sweat the fat's will also cause the same issues as if you sprayed tire dressing on the panels. Same with deoderent.
I can go on, but check these simple things first.
As mentioned before. All detailing products need to be far away from the painting area. Even the so called "body shop safe".
Make sure you are allowing proper flash times and make sure your using the correct reducers/hardeners for the conditions.
What you have eaten recently can be a factor people dont realize. That quick lunch at McDonalds will bite you in the ***. When you sweat the fat's will also cause the same issues as if you sprayed tire dressing on the panels. Same with deoderent.
I can go on, but check these simple things first.
Given that it looks like it is between base and clear and am assuming you are wet on wet (with sufficient flash time) between base and clear I will rule out surface contamination.
I would look at the clear material itself as well as your activator. Activator is really good at gelling ever so slightly after exposure to air and creating similar problems. If it was a fresh can of activator then I would be looking at gun, supply air.
I would look at the clear material itself as well as your activator. Activator is really good at gelling ever so slightly after exposure to air and creating similar problems. If it was a fresh can of activator then I would be looking at gun, supply air.
dladcock
Well-known member
Solvent Pop.
dla
dla
79firebird
Well-known member
Deff Solvent Pop had that happen yesterday at work
I'm gonna change the element filter in my dryer an my flash time might of been to short due to being under a radiant tube heater which made it look dry I never had solvent pop but mybe this is why I always saw solvent pop tiny tiny bumps every where an no shine next paint job ill take my time an let 5 mins between coats an 10 mins after my dust coat for clear an see what happens has anyone tryed the ppg fish eye remover heard the smoothie can dry out the clear an the over spray of it can mess other jobs up that's what I heard
Hammer1963
Well-known member
That is a classic case of solvent pop. Check your reducer/hardener temp zone. You more than likely are using a reducer or hardener that is too fast for the surface temperature. When it gets cold, many people forget about the surface temp and think ambient temp only. Ambient temp may not be the same or even close to the surface temp. Do not apply your heat as quickly and give it a little more flash time.
goneflyin2002
Well-known member
Did you happen to recently replace your air lines?
Cheap ones from across the pond have been known to be full of silicone contamination...
ask me how I know!
Don
Cheap ones from across the pond have been known to be full of silicone contamination...
ask me how I know!
Don
It's difficult to tell from the pictures, but the defect doesn't appear to be solvent popping to me. I'd expect the area to be much tighter and less surface distortion. It appears there is indeed depth inside the center which is more consistent with contamination of some sort.
Is it possible to look through the defect and see the lower substrate? If you are able to see the basecoat in the center of the defect, and it appears dull as in without clear that will help.
Is it possible to look through the defect and see the lower substrate? If you are able to see the basecoat in the center of the defect, and it appears dull as in without clear that will help.
skyboy2410
Member
Please make sure you are allowing proper flash times and make sure your using the correct reducers/hardeners for the conditions. New hoses and filters can cause your problems. Check your dryer for filter problems, also prep is of the essence.
I been doin this for years never had solvent pop an this is the first time using different paint an the reducer was like high 80 degrees I got a hook up an that's what he used I usually use like 50 so mybe I should tell him use a lower temp reducer an the hood also had a million rock chips an u paint guys know what clear looks like over chips that's what basically the hood looked like the picture doesn't do it justice