Painters, Please Help!

[turbowoodworker]

I am finishing a garage and new home build. Probably 2 months before moving in. I had the GC build the shell for a detached garage/shop but finishing the inside is off contract. I have learned so much from GJ about flooring and lighting that I think I'm all set there.

But searching "painting" still left a lot of specific questions. Please chime in with suggestions to the following problems:

Garage specs: detached, insulated, plan minisplits off contract right after move in; 26x56 11 foot ceiling.with wall dividing the 56 wall in half. One side will be strictly woodworking, the other will be dust free workspace for metal/welding/auto/lift.

The front walls have a double man door, 2 9' garage doors and a bank of windows on the woodworking side, see pics. Transom windows on back and side walls. Drywall is in, taped, sanded but not primed.
I'm calculating roughly 2500 square feet of surface walls and ceilings, not taking into account the garage doors and windows.


My questions are as follows:
1. How do you estimate paint and primer purchases? Square foot of coverage? and how many coats of each? Pretend one color for simplicity but I will do the grey/red/white color scheme.
2. Roll or rent a big sprayer? Big job for one guy (me) and lots of coats.
3. How to handle the cement block at wall base; paint it? leave natural? Does it need pretreatment and what kind of paint?
4. Brand of paint has been covered well in a very recent post. We are using SW in the house and I can probably get my painter to get me the trade discount. If not probably Behr or Valspar.
5. Gloss or semigloss? going with the same old grey/red/white in all likelihood but I want good reflective value for the lighting.

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.

 

[Itinerant]

Garage specs: detached, insulated, plan minisplits off contract right after move in; 26x56 11 foot ceiling.with wall dividing the 56 wall in half. One side will be strictly woodworking, the other will be dust free workspace for metal/welding/auto/lift.

The front walls have a double man door, 2 9' garage doors and a bank of windows on the woodworking side, see pics. Transom windows on back and side walls. Drywall is in, taped, sanded but not primed.
I'm calculating roughly 2500 square feet of surface walls and ceilings, not taking into account the garage doors and windows.

Disclaimer: I am not a painting contractor. However, my brother is and he answered a lot of these same questions for me last fall when I repainted the interior of my house.

My questions are as follows:
1. How do you estimate paint and primer purchases? Square foot of coverage? and how many coats of each? Pretend one color for simplicity but I will do the grey/red/white color scheme.

You should be able to cover approximately 400 square feet of flat (untextured) surface per gallon. One coat of primer will suffice but you may need two coats of your tinted colors.

2. Roll or rent a big sprayer? Big job for one guy (me) and lots of coats.

Since it's new construction I would spray it.

3. How to handle the cement block at wall base; paint it? leave natural? Does it need pretreatment and what kind of paint?

Sorry, no help here.

4. Brand of paint has been covered well in a very recent post. We are using SW in the house and I can probably get my painter to get me the trade discount. If not probably Behr or Valspar.

If your painter can't or won't get the paint for you, check with a nearby PPG Porter store and see if they will set up an account for you. My brother lives far enough away that it's inconvenient for him to p/u paint for me so I did this and it saved me about 40% per gallon.

5. Gloss or semigloss? going with the same old grey/red/white in all likelihood but I want good reflective value for the lighting.

I don't think there's a big difference in the reflective value of the paints but the gloss will clean up better.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Edited to add: You can find estimating programs on-line where you can enter the wall dimensions, number of doors/windows etc. to get a pretty good idea of where to go. Google paint estimator.

 

[dledinger]

We are using SW in the house and I can probably get my painter to get me the trade discount.

Not a painter either, I just get stuck painting everything in sight.

You could probably get the same price as him at Sherwin Williams; at least here you can.

I'd go semigloss, personally. I'd definitely not go flat.

And yes, I'd for sure spray that.

 

[rippered]

Former painter here...

If you spray you must back roll.

On the block you use block filler a high solid primer.

X1000 on the Porter paint.

Do not use gloss... It will show every single imperfection. I would use eggshell or satin.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks for all the responses. This is a good start for me.

 

[schor]

Lots of good suggestions so far. I'm not a pro, computers is my profession, but I've done a ton of painting.

If your not used to a sprayer then you could be in for more work than just rolling it on as well as possibly using way more paint than you need. As mentioned you need to back-roll, we call it laying off where I am.

Do 2 coats of a good primer, I like fresh-start myself. I've never tried porter bit it's a ppg product so its most likely very good.

The glossier the easier to clean but the more it shows imperfections. Your choice there, it is a garage after all.

For the block, I noticed snow in your pic, did you consider insulation for the block?

How much paint, the shop where you buy the paint will tell you what you need and if your not a pro you will most likely need more than what they recommend.

 

[laser3kw]

I bought Sherwin Williams semi gloss topcoat and used Kiltz latex primer on my drywall.
White = better lighting
Things I learned from my experience:
buy all your paint in gallons. You can return any unused paint that way and it cost about the same - no real savings in 5 gallon buckets - plus if you break into a 5 gallon, you can't return it.
Dump gallons into a 5 gallon bucket. You can draw right from it if you spray and stick a roller grate in it to roll.
If you spray, back roll is a must.
Lay Painters plastic & tape everything. Gorilla tape to stick to concrete, blue tape for straight line trim to edges, clear packing tape to join sections of painters plastic seams. Plastic and tape will make or break a nice looking job.
Spray the primer and roll out in sections.You have to roll it out as quick as you can.
let dry for a day. I had to let mine dry for a week.
spray and roll top coat let dry for 4 or so hours, then apply second coat
I ended up using about a gallon per 400sq ft. latex. buy extra return unused
I see snow in your pictures. Temperature will be key. the cooler it is, the more time you have to roll out and the longer between dry time.
also expect to get covered in paint, over spray and roller slop. buy a painters suit and head sock.

 

[BADSIX]

Former painter here...

If you spray you must back roll.

On the block you use block filler a high solid primer.

X1000 on the Porter paint.

Do not use gloss... It will show every single imperfection. I would use eggshell or satin.[/QUOTE

THIS ^ And go with the eggshell watch SW they always having sales.
if you've never used an airless it can be a challenge at first. two people work good at spraying and back rolling

 

[turbowoodworker]

Sorry for the naive question but can you define/describe back rolling? I'm getting quite the education here.

 

[BADSIX]

you roll the paint right after you spray it on. it work best if you have someone go ahead of you with the sprayer and you follow with the roller. it just makes the paint cover and look better also you can get 16" rollers they will speed things up a little
Jay D

 

[laser3kw]

when you spray interior / exterior paint, it's not like an automotive paint job. The sprayer is a method of applying the paint in a fairly even and fast coating. Basically you are applying the paint with the sprayer instead of the roller. Backrolling is just using a roller to roll back over the sprayed surface to even out the paint.
Usually the roller/ frame is used on a adjustable length pole.
When you by the roller frame (the frame is the part the roller pad slides onto), buy the expensive one. They are usually a heavier frame and will not flex like a lighter frame. That allows you to bear into it and apply pressure with the pole to get the roller to roll out. As far as the pad goes 1/2" nap is typical. I use a 3/4" nap and liked it just fine. Heavier nap holds more paint and helps maintane even coating. Clean the frame with water thoroughly when done. If the roller fram gets gunked up and starts to skid and not roll, clean it or replace the frame.

 

[schor]

Sorry for the naive question but can you define/describe back rolling? I'm getting quite the education here.

The key to back rolling/laying off is that you are trying to even out the paint with the roller, leaving no lap marks as you go. Ideally you want to run the full length of the run, go back to the start and run again overlapping an inch or so but laying off the pressure a bit on the roller on the lap end. The whole idea is to smooth and even out the paint.

Laying off is a finishing technique.

 

[Bill Ramsey]

Lots of good advice here. I can only help from the perspective of, "This is how I would do it if it were my project."

• Do use a good latex primer on the bare sheetrock. It will help even out the color of your paint coat, and your paint will go further over primer instead of bare sheetrock.
• After the primer coat, look closely to see if you're satisfied with the smoothness of the sheetrock finish. It's amazing how that first coat of primer/paint will show imperfections you didn't see before. If unhappy, correct it now with skim coats of sheetrock where necessary, sand, and apply another coat of primer on that.
• Open as many gallons of paint as you know you'll use on this coat, and box (mix) them together (a five-gallon bucket, or two, is good for this). Although they should have been mixed to the same color at the paint store, small variations can be visible...you don't want one part of the wall to look a slightly different color than another.
• Paint comes in a base (white) color. If, as others have mentioned, you buy more than you might need, think twice about having it all tinted until you're sure you'll use it...the tinted paint can't be returned for a refund.
• If it were me, I wouldn't mess with a sprayer for only 2500 sq ft, and I know how to operate one. It's a very efficient method for very large areas and especially for a two-man team (one spraying and one behind him, rolling), but the learning curve for a sprayer is steep. I'm not criticizing those who are suggesting a sprayer, this would simply be my personal choice. I'd use a long handle on a good roller. 18" rollers can be had (ask the paint store), but 9" will work.
• The longer the nap on the roller cover, the more of a textured appearance it leaves on the finished wall. Want super smooth? Short nap. Want a little textured appearance in the dried paint? Longer nap.
• Sheen is a personal preference. Gloss will look shiny, and flat will make the color less vibrant and make the walls 'disappear' under artificial light. Satin splits the middle. Personal preference.
• Buy good rollers and brushes not the throw-away cheapies - it makes a difference in performance and the quality of the finish. Purdy is a good brand. The SW contractor series as well. It's just a few more dollars and you'll paint something again someday.
• And lastly, don't stretch your paint. Keep the roller wet and apply a good coat. Most people who are unhappy with streaks or blotches in the finished paint coat spread the paint too thin. Keep a nice wet coat going, and feather the new area back into the area you just painted.

Sorry for the long post; I hope this is helpful.

 

[sctattooer]

One thing not mentioned here is how you're going to do your red border. Personally, I've never had good luck masking off a paint line and ending up straight without some tape edge bleeding. I chose to run a 1x4 border with rounded edges around the center and paint it red. I didn't have to be as careful painting along the taped edge, and I think it looks better.

Red paint over white is a multi coat process, so whether you do a border or just painted lines, save yourself some money on the red paint by painting the red over grey, not over white.

 

[kenfath]

Lots of good advice above. What is the plan for the floor? If it will be epoxied I'd suggest doing the blocks with the epoxy. We applied an epoxy cove where the concrete foundation and floor met, then applied the epoxy. Has held up well. The idea of insulation foam sheet also has merit.

In my garage project, the drywall was primed with one coat latex Kilz. Ceiling got two coats of an off-white semi gloss ceiling paint. Each coat was applied perpendicular to the previous coat. Used HD Behr paint. Wall color was French gray, a medium gray color in semi-gloss. Only did one coat, should have done two, but it is just fine. (I'm the only one that knows how many coats are there.)

The pre-primed MDF baseboard, doors and trim, were painted with a gloss red. Every red surface has three coats. Red didn't cover like 'I thought' it should. I've discussed this with several people who earn their living painting (Note: I didn't call them painters, but they are knowledgeable.) and they all report red is a difficult color to get good coverage.

Flat paint in a garage will not be satisfactory. Hard to clean, easily scuffed, shows dirt. Satin, eggshell and semi-gloss are my recommendations.

Your new building looks really good. Keep us advised on how your painting progresses. As you might sense I'm partial to your choice of colors.

 

[kingchevy]

Just want to clear up what the purpose of backrolling is. It is not to even out the paint, it is to give you a surface that you can touch up later. You can get a beautiful finish on smooth walls like yours by spraying all the coats and sanding in between, but if you need to touch it up someday the brush or roller finish on a sprayed surface will look horrible. Also, you don't backroll all the coats, just the finish coat. We prime with 100 percent acrylic primer, sand and prep walls, spray 1 finish coat, sand lightly then spray and backroll finish coat with 1/4 nap roller. Don't try to roll without spraying, the first coat of primer over raw drywall and mud is hard to get on smoothly as the porous surface ***** the moisture out of the paint really quickly.

 

[Zippercat]

I personally think spraying could be a nightmare if you're not experienced at it. Masking done wrong equals a lot of time cleaning up overspray....if it can be cleaned up. Add in the time to properly clean the sprayer and I don't see how you're likely to save much time or money as a first time user.

Also, using an 18 inch frame roller is a questionable choice for a novice. They are not very easy to control, compared to the standard 9 inch roller, and tend to get loose and fall apart at just the wrong time.

Instead, look at a 14 inch roller handle, like this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00322ZVCA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Couple the 14 inch with this paint pan: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001N9YDU/?tag=atomicindus08-20 That will allow you to cover a lot more area than the usual 9 inch roller but you'll be working with tools you can better control.

For your concrete stem wall, I've had good experience using Sherwin Williams Loxon concrete primer, then topcoat with your wall paint. http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/families/loxon-professional-products/ Loxon is not cheap....but worth it in my opinion.

Others suggested eggshell or satin finish: I absolutely agree on that.

 

[laser3kw]

Masking done wrong equals a lot of time cleaning up overspray....if it can be cleaned up.

can't stress that enough. Just like a car, good prep = good job.
I spent at least 12 hours (over several days) laying plastic and taping. Garage door, garage door springs, tracks, floors, trim, walk-in door, load center, equipment,fixtures, switches, outlets, etc.
When I was done and paint dried, pulled up the plastic, swept and done. Be careful pulling tape, watch for pulling at the paint junction. Score with razor if it looks like it wants to peel the paint.

 

[turbowoodworker]

You guys are great. Thanks for all the advice. I will update and post pictures once I get to that point.
Concerning the posts about the red stripe. I have read a lot on GJ about the vinyl striping products. That may be how I go there as it seems cost effective once you consider the price of good masking tape, time etc.
Thanks again everyone.
Rick

 

[onewheat]

One thing not mentioned here is how you're going to do your red border. Personally, I've never had good luck masking off a paint line and ending up straight without some tape edge bleeding. I chose to run a 1x4 border with rounded edges around the center and paint it red. I didn't have to be as careful painting along the taped edge, and I think it looks better.

Red paint over white is a multi coat process, so whether you do a border or just painted lines, save yourself some money on the red paint by painting the red over grey, not over white.

What I was told to do for a clean taped painted line without bleeding (although I have NOT confirmed this yet) was to tape up where the line will be and then paint first with the color that is already underneath - like white or whatever the background is - that will seal the edges and if paint is going to bleed under, it will be the same color as what is already under the tape and THEN paint your red line or whatever the stripe is going to be. When you peel the tape, it is supposed to be a nice crisp line. It sounds good in theory, but I have yet to confirm this.

The problem I have had with taping in the past has been peeling up the paint underneath the tape. Maybe the paint is too new? Dunno?

 

[gunguy]

With large areas I've always had good luck using a power roller. There is less tendency to roll too thin and you save a lot of time painting instead of loading the roller in the tray.

Having a slop sink available makes clean-up pretty easy.

Jim

 

[nolimits76]

I think the guys hit most the other points pretty well. Recently we re-painted a bathroom at our house in a multiple colors. Getting nice clean lines were a priority. You too will want nice clean lines for that stripe; otherwise, all your hard work will look like ****.

Here are some pictures and a video (bottom of page) showing how to properly do it. This technique worked well for us.

http://frogtape.com/how-to-gallery/wall_stripes_patterns/how-to-paint-an-accent-stripe

Lastly, you are smart to consider light reflective values (LRV's). The higher the score, the better the color reflects light. This becomes important in work areas like garages, kitchens, bathrooms, etc. Especially in the commercial world where inspectors use a light meter to ensure there is sufficient brightness.

I know SW reports LRV's. I presume others do too.

Link better explaining LRV's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Reflectance_Value
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...plication/sw-article-pro-worthyofreflect.html

Link to SW whites:
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/arc...e-colors/color-collections/whites-and-lights/

Link to other SW colors:
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/arc...nd-and-explore-colors/paint-colors-by-family/

 

[JakeKohl]

You guys are great. Thanks for all the advice. I will update and post pictures once I get to that point.
Concerning the posts about the red stripe. I have read a lot on GJ about the vinyl striping products. That may be how I go there as it seems cost effective once you consider the price of good masking tape, time etc.
Thanks again everyone.
Rick

A chalk line laser level and vinyl striping tape is the way to go for the stripe. I did the stripe around my entire 24x36 in about 30 minutes. There are several online places you can order from but if you get stuck, send me a PM. I can get it for you.

 

[vankaye]

As a former pro painter, I say hire a painter. That job is a one day job for a couple of pro's. How much are you really saving?? IF you are not an experienced painter, the airless sprayer will teach you a few lessons the first day. Everything in there is brandnew. Do you really want to find out how much work it is to clean overspray??
I am all for DIY, but everybody on the planet thinks painting is the one thing anybody can do... It is not.

An experienced painter will knock that out in one day without putting one drop of paint out of place. Totally worth it!!

 

[Sideburns65]

I went through the same questions when I was finishing my garage. I am usually a benjamin moore guy, but SW was running a 30% off discount so I went with them. I bought their drywall primer and used the amount on the paint can to estimate amount needed. I did 2 coats of primer. I rolled everything. Get a set of scaffolding from Tractor supply or harbor freight and you can roll everything. I have no experience with a sprayer and I am much more comfortable rolling. I then got satin super paint from SW. I put 2 coats of that on upper half and ceiling. For the lower half, I painted 2 coats of grey. I primed the concrete block with HD concrete primer and painted it grey as well. Then I got a laser level from HF and taped my lines. As the previous post said, when taping, if you "seal" the tape with paint, there will be no bleeding. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks for all the info. I appreciate all the posts.
Rick