Painting mask for home use

[scott37300]

I'm going to be doing some sandblasting and painting and want to buy a decent filter mask. I've read that using hardener means I need better than the simple charcol filters? I won't be using it much but would like something that will work. Can I use the same mask for blasting and painting? What do I need if I am spraying paint with hardener? What are my options for a decent mask that won't break the bank since I will only use it a few times a year at the most?

Thanks

 

[plinker]

3M 6000 series half mask respirator w/ 2091/7 filters for blasting and organic vapor cartridges for painting ( I cant think of the # ). I dont think using hardener mean's anything different for filter's, organic vapor & charcoal are the same far as I know.

That's what I have. I also use the "P99" 2091/7's for welding and another dust requirement's, one of them also has some organic vapor protection.

I got some filter's from Napa & Airgas, but I saw Menards sells them in the paint section.

 

[metaleltr]

For spraying paint I recommend this

3M Paint Respirator

For sanding and sandblasting I recommend this

3M Dust Respirator

 

[scott37300]

For spraying paint I recommend this

3M Paint Respirator

For sanding and sandblasting I recommend this

3M Dust Respirator

The paint mask you linked to says "disposable"? Does this mean the filters are disposable or that the mask is a 1 time use mask?

 

[metaleltr]

The filters are disposable.

 

[0.511MeV]

Make sure to check the MSDS for the paint you are using. It will give you a good idea of the cartridges you need to use. Also, are you painting inside or outside? That can affect things greatly.

Finally, the best respirator is the one that fits properly. Make sure you have had a current physical and get fit tested.

 

[scott37300]

Make sure to check the MSDS for the paint you are using. It will give you a good idea of the cartridges you need to use. Also, are you painting inside or outside? That can affect things greatly.

Finally, the best respirator is the one that fits properly. Make sure you have had a current physical and get fit tested.

Can you explain what filters are for what paint? I'm planning on using valspar restoration series impliment enamal, http://www.valsparglobal.com/val/resident/agricultural/restoration/index.jsp

 

[0.511MeV]

The link you pointed to just says enamel, which is kind of an all encompassing term. I've seen both water and oil based enamels. For a water based (like latex) you can probably use a particulate filter (like a P100). For oil based, you'll want an organic vapor cartridge. If you are using something that has a hardener like methyl ethyl ketone peroxide (MEKP), you'll want an organic vapor cartridge.

http://www.valsparglobal.com/val/resident/msds.jsp

Their MSDS site requires the UPC code from the paint you'll use. The MSDS will have a section that says "safety" or "personal protection" or "exposure control" or something along those lines and it will discuss respirators and gloves and such.

If you have an Airgas nearby, they usually have a great selection of safety equipment.

 

[scott37300]

The link you pointed to just says enamel, which is kind of an all encompassing term. I've seen both water and oil based enamels. For a water based (like latex) you can probably use a particulate filter (like a P100). For oil based, you'll want an organic vapor cartridge. If you are using something that has a hardener like methyl ethyl ketone peroxide (MEKP), you'll want an organic vapor cartridge.

http://www.valsparglobal.com/val/resident/msds.jsp

Their MSDS site requires the UPC code from the paint you'll use. The MSDS will have a section that says "safety" or "personal protection" or "exposure control" or something along those lines and it will discuss respirators and gloves and such.

If you have an Airgas nearby, they usually have a great selection of safety equipment.

It's an oil enamal and has a seperate hardener you mix in. So I will need a organic vapor cartridge right?

I do have an account at airgas for welding gas but don't buy much else there because they are usually pretty expensive.

 

[0.511MeV]

A cartridge that says "OV/P100" is what you'll want. It will take out the organic vapors and the particles.

Along these lines:
http://airgas.com/browse/productDetail.aspx?Category=345&product=NOS7581P100

You get a different APF for a half mask and a full face respirator. So you need to figure out how much of a cloud you'll be in (e.g. inside a small garage, inside a big warehouse, outside in the wind, etc).

 

[plinker]

The Valspar tractor enamel is an alykd enamel

 

[scott37300]

The Valspar tractor enamel is an alykd enamel

alkyd enamel is oil based right?

 

[plinker]

Yes, but alkyd is technially the proper name. Most enamel, except for water base, is oil based. At least that's my understanding of it.

 

[scott37300]

Yes, but alkyd is technially the proper name. Most enamel, except for water base, is oil based. At least that's my understanding of it.

I see. Thanks for the knowledge. Way to many things to know about this paint stuff!

 

[1967lemans]

I would recommend an organic vapor and p100 combo like 3M's 60921
http://www.discountsafetygear.com/r...lsku=UA60921&gclid=CMjp6tanoa8CFUmR7Qod3n15Wg

 

[trainer]

If your hardner has isocyanurates then you need to use a supplied air respirator. A cartridge won't protect you

 

[scott37300]

I stopped by lowest last night and they had about four different 3M masks. Some were P95 and some were P100. Is P100 better for painting?

 

[0.511MeV]

On the particulate filters you'll see a letter and number:
N = Not oil resistant
R = oil Resistant
P = oil Proof

The number will usually be 95, 99, or 100 and refers to efficiency of removal (actually 95%, 99% or 99.97%).

 

[Kevin54]

Along with a respirator, make sure you pick up some disposable Tyvek suits. The isocyanate can be absorbed in through the skin as well as breathing them in. I have a cousin that has isocyanate poison symptoms. If he breathes in or is around any airborne paint, he instantly breaks out in a severe rash and it has put him in the hospital on more than one occasion

 

[scott37300]

Along with a respirator, make sure you pick up some disposable Tyvek suits. The isocyanate can be absorbed in through the skin as well as breathing them in. I have a cousin that has isocyanate poison symptoms. If he breathes in or is around any airborne paint, he instantly breaks out in a severe rash and it has put him in the hospital on more than one occasion

I'm going to run out to fleet farm today and see exactly what's in the hardener. I thought I could just buy a decent mask and spray this thing but it's starting to be more of a pain then it's worth! Between the mask and what paint to use I'm starting to think just get some spray bombs and be done with it! I'll look into things a little more because I would like to spray it with some quality paint as long as it's not going to cost more than the jack is worth and kill me while I'm at it. Not going to buy some positive ventilation suit just to spray a jack.

Thanks for all your advice and hopefully I can find out what's in the hardener and get a good mask and spray this thing.

 

[scott37300]

I've been doing a lot of reading about these masks and how you can't spray isocyanates without a fresh air mask. I want to do this right but can't afford a fresh air mask for the limited times I would use it.

Here is an interesting PDF from 3m about isocyanates, http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...ZgVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=TU Isocyanates 0707.pdf

I found this at northern tool, http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395642_200395642. In the description it says "This 2-pk. of 3M replacement cartridges is for use with household respirator, Item# 547562. For pesticide vapor (except fumigants, unless allowed by label), paint spraying (including paints containing isocyanates when cartridge changout schedule is in place, according to NIOSH approval) and organic vapor; particulates. U.S.A." So acording to them this filter will block isocyanates. I think I am going to email 3m and see what they have to say.

 

[plinker]

Let us know what 3M has to say. I'm curious.

 

[scott37300]

Let us know what 3M has to say. I'm curious.

I emailed them last night but don't expect a reply until next week sometime. I will post what they say.

 

[scott37300]

Here is the email I got back from 3m

Scott,

Thank you for contacting 3M regarding respiratory protection. An organic vapor/P100 combination cartridge (60921) with a half facepiece respirator (6000 or 7500 series) will protect against isocyanate concentrations up to 10 times the Occupational Exposure Limit. These products can be viewed on our website using the link below.




http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...ve_Equipment/Respirators/ReusableRespirators/



Since isocyanates are respiratory sensitizers, it is important to follow a cartridge change schedule carefully. You can calculate the service life of the cartridge using the Service Life Software on our website:


http://www3.3m.com/SLSWeb/serviceLifeDisclaimer.html



Dawn T.
Occupational Health & Environmental Safety Technical Service

So according to 3M I can spray isocyanates without a forced air helmet. The filters are fine as long as you stick to a replacement schedual. Now to decide between a full face and half face. The half face is rated for 10 times exposure limit and if I remember correctly the full face was rated for 50 times the exposure limit, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[shannonw]

How often are you planning on doing this? Those cartidges and mask add up, if more than a 1 shot. I'd try to find a deal on supplied air.

You're going to spend 30-40 on a 3m mask + $10 filters (that's just the organic) a pop, then you have dust filters which go over there. iirc full mask were more along the lines of 50-60 for a 3m. And most people run the cartridge way over life span (they're good for x number of hours at x concentrations) then say oh let me do this on down the road and it's spent as they didn't get new ones before hand and are in a hurry.

I'm no expert on this but...i'd want a full face, you don't want any of that stuff on your skin, eyes,etc. Everything i've read is iso's on skin = over time (or if you happen to be the isolated over sentive case) you can build up a reaction (just depends on the person, some are alergic to latex), iso in lungs builds up and like silica can lead to silicosis. Everything i've read said you need to stick to the cartridge schedule...also i've seen youtube vids where a guy was using cartridges, tvyk, hood, painting in a garage and got his liver enzymes tested and it was high afterwards from the solvents,etc even though he was using those (but who knows how religious he was and the concentration levels he was in,etc).

This is a good deal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAS-Fresh-S...ultDomain_0&hash=item33755dfd98#ht_500wt_1265

That's 1/4 horse good for a 1 man 1/2 mask or full mask...not enough cfm to run a hood. I'm amazed at 200 bucks that pump sits there this week...that's nothing compared to the cost of paint, primer,etc.

You can usually pickup a full mask survivair,etc on ebay for around 40-60 bucks...they ain't comfortable and tough to see out of once you get the splash sheild on. Then you need a hose and new filters probably on the pumps. Sometimes deals show up like i picked up a 1/2 mask brand new (just to use for general use) and it came with 25 feet of new hose for 50 bucks.

Or the hobbyair units are on there and probably the cheapest way to go, they resale pretty quick ...i think you come out cheaper in the end if you find out you end up not using it much, and if you do you have much more peace of mind imho...

This guy has a good read, seems experienced but you know..it's info on the web so ymmv

http://www.1969supersport.com/respirators.html

 

[shannonw]

Everything i've read (am i'm not expert) is here's the deal with organic filters and iso's. You can't smell the isos' (though i'd assume you can the solvents) and since you don't know concentration levels you have no way or really 100% knowing if your cartridge is loaded up. OSHA,etc has some info out there i can't really remember.

Though plenty of people do seem to shoot with them

 

[TerryHodge]

Use a mask with double straps. These masks are pulled tight against your face at the top as well as the bottom, helping to hold them in place and achieve a better seal.

 

[clubairth]

Glad you posted the response from 3M. So many people are 100% wrong about Iso's and the ability of filters to capture them. It is posted here over and over again and it's just plain incorrect. Read and understand the issue then decide how to handle it.

Correct about the iso's. They do not have a smell. That is the danger. But this is NOT a problem because Iso's do NOT occur in isolation. They are only used with other paint compounds. So if you smell paint or solvent then you must assume you are breathing iso's.

What this means is what we are really worried about is called solvent break thru of the cartridges. As the cartridge gets full at some point it can no longer contain/absorb anymore. Then the solvents start coming thru the cartridge and you can smell the fumes.

As was posted above these cartridges must be kept in a sealed bag when not in use as they continue to absorb chemicals 24/7. I write the date on the cartridge and then store my mask in a gallon zip lock freezer bag when not in use. I get no smell of any kind thru the mask. Again if you do change the filters. I also copied another good suggestion. I use Alcohol swabs to clean the mask where it seals to my face after every use. Keeps it clean and I prefer a Silicon rubber mask for comfort and longevity of the mask.

I got burned years ago when I bought an AO Safety mask. Well they got bought out by 3M and the entire product line was killed. So no more cartridges for the old AO Safety masks!

I have found that the area where I paint makes the biggest difference. Once I went to a positive pressure spay booth (Home made) it almost completely eliminated my respirator concerns. The over spray just does not stay around very long with air moving. The pre-filters barely get dirty anymore. For small jobs I follow what others have done and try to clear the area as quick as possible. I like to use cheap $10 box fans.

As anyone who paints will tell you it's pretty good until you get to the clear. That makes the biggest fog of anything I shoot!!!

Yes and now we will have experts come and tell use about the explosion hazard these fans can cause and how we must all run down to the store and buy multi hundred dollar explosion proof electric motors or we will all die!
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