Pallet Rack "A" Frame

[nine4gmc]

I moved my mill under my pallet rack today and want to remove the temporary pallet. I have a chain fall and come along, I would like to fabricate a "bridge" of sorts across the pallet shelving that I can secure the hoist to. I have a few different pieces of scrap steel laying around so I'll need to bounce a few questions off you fabricator guys.

I plan to(tell me if I'm crazy), take a piece of say, 2" thick wall sq tubing and cut it long enough to hang over the front and rear shelf edges, notch it out to clear the lip and let the bottom of the tubing sit on the inner shelf lip where the pallet rack shelving supports sit. This would go on the top shelf, I would move the plywood on the bottom shelf for the hoist to hang through to the mill. The over hanging lips will keep the shelves from spreading and the solid bottom sitting on the inner support should provide plenty of support there. I doubt a single piece of 2" would hold the weight so my thoughts are to double them up and stitch them together. I know the 42" deep pallet racking is good for 5,000# so that's not my worry, I want to know what scrap metal I may have laying around that would be safe to lift a ton straight up and set it back down safely. Thanks

^edited, I want to add that I only have a Hobart 140 for welding but I can plasma cut up to 1/2", drill and bolt together if I need something thicker than the 2" thick wall sq tube.

 

[jimgood]

What's the span between where the ends of the tube would be supported?

This might help: http://metalgeek.com/static/deflection.php

 

[mike93lx]

5k lbs over what area? Your 2k will be very concentrated.

 

[j p smith]

I think I would get the mill of the pallet out in the open area and then use pipe rollers to move into place.

 

[bczygan]

I would work from below with a jack.

Bust up enough of the front of the pallet to get a jack under the front lip.

Jack it up just enough to demolish more of the pallet, lowering the machine by degrees as you work from front to back.

Use wood wedges that can be gradually removed to lower it.

Use the pallet rack to steady it.

 

[racingtadpole]

From the look of your pallet rack, you don't have much in the way of head room.
You could get four builders props and some angle to reinforce your pallet rack. Place the angle under the pallet rack facing up to keep what little headroom you have available. Hold it in position with a couple of clamps. Put a prop under each end of the angle. Make some hardwood wedges and drive them into the long span beam to create a solid section within the horizontal beam. Sit the square section on top of the beams directly over the props.
Bit of effort, and maybe the rental of four props.

 

[930dreamer]

Just my .02 that metal framing doesn't look strong enough to support a lot of weight. If it was Home depot type I'd say yes.

 

[nine4gmc]

Pallet Rack "A" Frame

The top shelf is 10' high so height is not an issue.

The uprights are good for 9600# unsupported weight on a 96" beam.

The beams are 96" and rated for 5,000# each so I'm good there too, I just need to know how much I need to distribute the 2,000# on that shelf.

Could I use 1-1/2" angle iron to lay in the shelving lip for the crossmember to sit on and distribute the weight more?

Or make a ladder out of 2" thick wall(1/4" wall) tubing to distibutr the weight? Like two parallel cross members with 12" spreaders between?


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[mike93lx]

I would assume that the 5k lb rating is for the whole shelf, so two beams. I would also assume that to achieve that rating, the beams have to be tied together at least at the midpoint to stop them from wanting to rotate. If that is the case, at least make sure the tie is in place for the lift.

I would be curious to know if the weight limit is based on the connection to the uprights or if it is more a limit of the beam strength.

With all that said, If you do rig this up stand as far away as possible, don't try to stop it if it starts to fall over, and shoot some video.

 

[DpSyChO]

Just my .02 that metal framing doesn't look strong enough to support a lot of weight. If it was Home depot type I'd say yes.

To me looks to be 3x3 teardrop up rights. Not sure what Home Depot uses by my local Lowes uses 3x3 Paltier which should have the same or equivalent weight rating to the teardrop .
When my lowes went through a "reset" a few years back the contractor took some of the cosmetically unappealing uprights and beams to the local scrap yard.....guess who scored some of that for 2x scrap price I think I gave $.15 lb for 5 uprights plus 60 some beams and wish I'd got more.
To me the beams should be the deciding factor for weight capacity for this application. I have a mixture of 3, 4,5, and a few 6" tall beams, pallet racking vendors should have listing of what capacity is for different heights. If I were to use my pallet raking to pick up my mill, I would use several 4x4 across the beams then a pc of I beam or even another pallet racking beam set upright across the 4x4's to try to spread the load out.
Speaking of 4x4'......I do not advocate anyone else doing this as is is probably not the safest option:
When I bought my mill I got a deal in it and did not have somewhere to store so I had to buy a shipping container to put it in as we knew we would end up moving and would not be building a shop there. I sprayed the mill down with crc3-36 and double tarped till I could get a shipping container which was about three months after the mill. When I got the container the mill was still on the trailer and the trailer was within 1" height of the shipping container. I backed it up as close as i could which left a 4 or 5" gap, made a bridge out of large piece of 14ga sheet , screwed it down to the decking of the trailer and floor of container then rolled the mill onto the container with 3/4" pipe. I got it about 4' inside the door of the shipping container and stopped. I then had time to build a "dolly" to put he mill on. Casters on the dolly are on outriggers which puts the mill about 1" off the floor. I had to lift the mill up about 4" to put on the dolly since I used 3" angle. I had a cousin building a house near us with a Lull and he he was going to try to lift the mill it with it when he had time between jobs. I saw online a guy who but 4x4 under the knee and cribbing on each side then used the knee crank to lift the mill up.
I thought I'd give it a try, lifted mill up about 1", then 2" then enough to roll dolly under it.......may not have been the safest thing I've ever done and dont know if I'd do it again but worked like a charm. I had access to free oak 4"x4" x 4' long at work that come between plates of steel so I brought several home to use. Had to play around with table position to get right balance but I picked up the mill with the knee crank, rolled the dolly under it and let the mill down with the knee crank. If you search online you may find the article I found. Again....not the safest thing I've ever done and would not suggest you try it but I didnt lift the the mill much over 4". This was about 10 years ago. We bought our current house about 7 years ago and still finishing up the shop that I started 3 years ago. The mill is still int he shipping container but I'm on track to get the mill, a lathe, and a 15' long workbench in the same container moved into the new shop by mid spring/early summer.

 

[nine4gmc]

I'm using warehouserack.com capacity charts. My beams are 40E, rated at 5030 lbs per pair.

My design idea includes leaving tabs to encase the beams to keep them from spreading. People park cars on these things, I'm not concerned with capacity, only how to achieve enough support and distribution to handle the 2,000 lbs.


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[nine4gmc]

Like this, I should have googled it first, I'm not the first one with this idea. Mine is bolted to the wall though so less chance of anything going wrong. I just need to know what size cross member and how wide for weight distribution.

 

[nine4gmc]

This is what I do NOT want.

 

[DpSyChO]

We'll just refer to that pic as operator malfunction.

Like the idea of the yellow racking of running short stringers between two beams to spread load.

 

[LXCam]

Well at least that one ^^ probably came down slow

Why don't you double the cross bars at the front of the uprights then use bars to roll it in place. Then you won't need to fab anything.

 

[nine4gmc]

I think I'm going to follow his footsteps and make a gantry crane, it will be a HUGE shop improvement for lots of uses.

Link to his thread: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-pallet-rack-gantry-crane-164041/

 

[southalabama]

I'm with bcyzgan I'd come at it from the bottom.

I removed the pallet from a couple gun safes the way he described. I was able to do it by myself. Was able to use smaller boards and worked it side to side. In this case I'd probably use a sawzall to whittle the pallet away.

 

[Franz1.0©]

Before you put the mill on the floor, How tall are you?

I sit here fully prepared to tall you unless you're shorter than 5' 9" that mill was not made for you to operate comfortably with the machine sitting on the concrete floor.

Pallet racking for purposes other than holding pallets aloft can get tricky fast. As a man who has built such things as roof trusses and trailers using racking steel I can assure you of this.

Without adding diagonal braces to the rack structure it is very capable of collapsing with any slight side loading. Homer Desperate and Blows are famous for demonstrating this feature.

 

[nine4gmc]

I'm 5'8" with work boots on.

My pallet rack is secured to the metal building wall girts and end wall posts. You guys must have missed the post above where a guy over at practical machinist moved 7 machines ranging up to 2500# on his diy pallet rack setup with no issues at two locations. I'll post pics when I get started.

 

[Franz1.0©]

The only good section on Prac Mac is Antique tools & machines.

Go stand at the machine for an hour and play with your cranks and decide if it will be comfortable.

Look at the fasteners on the end of the pallet rack horizontal. They were only designed to handle force in one direction, DOWN.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive because I damn near wore a #2 Cinci Horizontal that was tipping.

 

[nine4gmc]

The rack is secured to the metal building frame on two sides at the 7'-6" ish height. The crossmember will be directly over the mill, unless the mill defies gravity and turns bottom up, the load will be a straight down force. No swinging, no offset lifting, lift it off of a stable platform a couple inches and set it back down on the floor. Once I build the mobile base for the mill, I will need to lift it again and set it back down in the base cradle so a gantry only makes sense. It took hours to jack up and let down this thing from the trailer I unloaded it from, this method would be as simple as backing in and hooking up the hoist.

 

[pi_guy]

Set fire to the "f"ing pallet and sweep out the dust.

 

[Cahark]

I've had to do this myself a couple times. Prybars and wood scraps work great. Have an extra person around to keep an eye on things from a few feet away. It's a lot easier to see things going wrong from a far.


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[Cgantner5150]

Nine4 - I used the pallet jack to lift mine and cut the pallet away with a prybar and sawsall. Used 2x4 blocks as needed. Originally mine was oriented with the jack coming in from the front / back. I wanted it from the side so I can leave the jack in place for storage. Going to use 2x4 metal tubing across front and back to make permanent. Grabbed a 4x4 and lag bolts yesterday as temp "feet".

 

[mike93lx]

Like this, I should have googled it first, I'm not the first one with this idea. Mine is bolted to the wall though so less chance of anything going wrong. I just need to know what size cross member and how wide for weight distribution.

That looks like it has very little resistance to racking. I think a knee brace from the bottom cross bar to the frame would help a lot and it shouldn't obstruct access to the machine.

 

[nine4gmc]

Mike, that's a pic from a guy on practical machinist. It looks like it could sway easily but after reading his thread, it's bolted to the building so it will not lean.


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[mike93lx]

Mike, that's a pic from a guy on practical machinist. It looks like it could sway easily but after reading his thread, it's bolted to the building so it will not lean.


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yeah, I noticed where you sourced the image from. Personally, I wouldn't trust it bolted to 2x4 trusses that aren't designed for anything like that type of load, but we all have our own thresholds. If you are comfortable copying his design, go for it.

With all this said, wouldn't it be a lot easier to move it later on if you left it up on some type of platform or rails? Maybe a couple pieces of channel or tube so you could get your pallet jack in?

 

[rsanter]

I think your crazy. Leave it on the pallet
You have very little working space around that mill. At some point you will want to pull it out to use it or service it or something.
I would trim the front of the pallet a little and them bolt the mill to it. Then you can use a pallet jack to roll it out when needed

Bob

 

[Cahark]

I think your crazy. Leave it on the pallet

You have very little working space around that mill. At some point you will want to pull it out to use it or service it or something.

I would trim the front of the pallet a little and them bolt the mill to it. Then you can use a pallet jack to roll it out when needed



Bob

I like bobs idea. It works well for my shop.



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[nine4gmc]

You guys missed the mention of a mobile base in post #21. I need to get the pallet out from under it and fabricate a mobile base for it. Removing the pallet is step one.

 

[Cahark]

Mobile would be nice. Skid is a cheaper and quicker option as long as it's built heavy. That is as long as you have a pallet jack. If I can find a good set of casters for cheap, I will definitely build a mobile.


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[bluebolt]

Too bad you are not closer, I have access to several I beams that would do the trick. Put a hefty cross bar on each end of the pallet rack cross beams, put the I beam on top of them, secure the pieces so they can't move. Now you can pick up the load and move it sideways with a trolley. More cross beams would distribute the load better but would limit the travel of the trolley.

 

[nine4gmc]

There are a few HUGE(like 10-12" tall) i beams at the perpetual garage sale Merc and I have been going to. The seller said he'd be doing this well into spring, I figure I will wait a while and see if I can scoop some up at scrap prices. He has a couple NOS beam trolleys too but I can't find the hardware, it's just the two main pieces with wheels on them.

 

[bluebolt]

I have a leftover beam from my Harbor Freight 1 ton gantry crane that would be perfect. Its nearly 10 feet long and about 4" tall I think. I upgraded my hoist to a wider and taller beam so I could get my car trailer and dually trucks underneath.

For trolleys I use a pair of Harbor Freight 2 ton trolleys. Double trolleys makes it easier to lift truck beds and cabs without the chain getting in the way, works better with 2 people though!

 

[fergus]

Like some others said, tie the uprights together somewhere between the floor and the top. I think that would help a lot. Then a couple stout pieces of scrap running from front to back laying on the top rail (to spread the load) , then a stout piece of channel bridging those two cross pieces. Hoist from the bridge.

 

[matt_i]

I'm not totally clear on the span of the doubled 2" square tubing (or I-beam) proposed.

I would be confident from a structural perspective using the doubled (and I am thinking horizontally doubled like a figure 8 laid 90 degrees over) 2" square x 1/4" wall tube over a span of 48" to lift your 1 ton.

The very biggest thing is that the pallet rack formed crossmembers aren't designed for concentrated loads. Its not to say you can't use them like that but its not the full rated capacity. That's what happened in the fail picture above.

Somehow you also need to send the load over to the teardrop columns. If your plan was to bridge from formed crossmember to formed crossmember with the 2" figure 8, I'd do that but very carefully. I'd measure the bottom of both crossmembers to the floor with a tape, down to a 1/16" dimension. Then wind up some load on your chainfall (you have soft-roundslings, right? ) and measure again. If the displacement is less than the span in inches divided by 360 then you are OK, but you need to approach that gingerly like 2 clicks of the ratchet/brake before measuring again. It doesn't need to lift but 1/2" up and then you can pull the pallet and set back down.

I have my bridgeport on 3 thicknesses of 2x6, but for someone shorter, similar to some of my coworkers at my job, would be tricky for them to reach the drawbar without standing on something which is a pain.

Personally I would not put a machine on a rolling base, I know they are out there and have threaded fasteners which take over from the casters, but its a ton of work for little benefit if the idea is to be able to sweep behind it...the mill will roll on 1/2" cold rolled round stock, it takes a very short leverage/ prybar to lift it up and insert a few rods, roll it out for cleaning or whatever.

 

[nine4gmc]

The span is about 38-39" between the rails IIRC on my 42" rack. The crossmember material has changed, I now have access to a huge I Beam about 8-10" I think, I'll be checking it out this weekend. I know it's strong enough, I may still need to put something to spread the load though.

 

[nine4gmc]

Okay, new question. I have some I beams now, I want to run two pieces across the pallet shelving from front to back, as spreaders for the weight, then lay another one across them side to side for the hoist to hook to.

The two spreader I beams are about 10-3/6" tall x 4-5/8" wide and 42" long, looks like 3/8" thick.

The one I want to lay across them and hoist from is about 8" tall x 4-1/8" wide and 84" long, looks like 3/16" thick(half as thick as the spreaders).

I figure I could put the spreaders at about 5' apart on center and lay the 7' one across them safely?

 

[bullnerd]

A Johnson bar and some pipe come in real handy for moving machines around easily.

I would just run a 4x4 post (or whatever you have that's close) as close as possible to each side of the mill from the floor up to the rack beam. Hoist in the center, shortening the span. Flip the head down also. 2k, piece of cake.