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Panasonic 24,000BTU split heat pump-AC

WVBrady

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Does anyone know anything about this unit. It looks like it would be a cheap way to get heat for my garage. I have heated it temporarily with a 20,000BTU kerosene heater, but the cost of kero has gone up and I don't like the fumes, etc. It is about the same cost to heat my house with electric baseboard heat as it is with fuel oil, so a heat pump should be cheaper in all but very cold weather.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360111341915

TIA, Brady
 
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Dragster Racer

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That is very interesting. How do they get 27,000 BTU out of just over 10 amps? That is kind of curious to me. Seems like it would be great for garages, and would give cooling ability too.
 

79firebird

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Looking at these units they are 220 volt ones. should work good i have 2 at home a different model and 110 ones 10000 btu very nice units cheaper then running my baseboard heater. The outdoor unit is 220 and the inside is 110. One thong is where you place the unit as there is a drain line for when ya use the ac. you can have it going into a bucket if you go on a inside wall tho.
 
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WVBrady

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That is very interesting. How do they get 27,000 BTU out of just over 10 amps? That is kind of curious to me. Seems like it would be great for garages, and would give cooling ability too.

Thanks for the reply!

Because it is a heat pump, which has an apparent efficiency of greater than 100%. In other words, you get more heat energy out of it than you put into it in the form of electrical energy, because you are using the electrical energy not to generate heat directly, but to bring in heat energy from the outside air (I think of an analogy of using electrical energy to bring outside coal into a furnace). This "apparent efficiency" is called Coefficient of Performance, abbreviated COP. The following calculations indicate that the specifications show that the COP is in the range that is normally quoted for heat pumps.

Specifications:
1.0 kilowatt (kW) = 3413 Btu/hr
Input current 11.1A(heat)

Input power 2550W(heat) = 2.55kW

Input Voltage
230v/60Hz

Calculations:
11.1Ax230V = 2553w = 2.553kW (which is consistent with their specifications)

2.553kWx 3413 Btu/hr = 8713 Btu/hr

24,000Btu/hr / 8713 Btu/hr = 2.75 COP

"Air source heat pumps are relatively easy (and inexpensive) to install and have therefore historically been the most widely used heat pump type. However, they suffer limitations due to their use of the outside air as a heat source or sink. The higher temperature differential during periods of extreme cold or heat leads to a lower efficiency, as explained above. In mild weather, COP may be around 3.5, while at temperatures below around −5°C (23°F) an air-source heat pump's COP will drop below 2. The average COP over seasonal variation is typically 2.5-2.8,[9] and high efficiency model in Japan over 6.0(2.8kW) written in the IPCC 4th Working Group III report chapter 6 [10]."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump
 
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WVBrady

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Looking at these units they are 220 volt ones. should work good i have 2 at home a different model and 110 ones 10000 btu very nice units cheaper then running my baseboard heater. The outdoor unit is 220 and the inside is 110. One thong is where you place the unit as there is a drain line for when ya use the ac. you can have it going into a bucket if you go on a inside wall tho.

Thanks for the reply. Can you give us details as to what kind of unit you have, who makes it, how long have you had it, where did you get it, etc.?

Did you install it yourself?
 
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Dragster Racer

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Ahh. They are a heat pump. I see that now that the one part mounts outside like a central air unit. I really think these would be great for those looking to heat and cool thier shops. They aren't cheap, and the recovery would be poor. But you could use a large heater for recovery, and use the heat pump the other 98% of the time. Pretty slick.
 

79firebird

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Ive had one in 1 room since sept outher one finaly got put in and running 1 month ago ended up being a bad fan in it. I got my from island energy here in victoria bc. im likeing them so far. keeps the upstairs nice and tosty with the snow we just got the last fue days. In the heating mode they are a bit noiser then in cooling mode. every fue hours they will shut off for a fue min make a gurgling sound make a little tump sound then kick back on. These where display ones i got so they are older models. O ya and they ar TILI brand
 
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seatec

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Nova Scotia
I have a Daikin 18,000 btu heat pump in 20x40 steel garage, well insulated, - 10 f and windy today, still puting out enough heat, very quite, they will work at a very low temp they told me here in in NS. Wayne
 
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WVBrady

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Thanks for the replies.
seatec: I found a price for the Daikin: $2081 plus $129 shipping. That is considerably more than the Panasonic that I referenced. Did you install it yourself, and if so, did the package include everything that you needed?

79firebird: Did you install yours yourself? I couldn't find a price on your unit, but I did notice that TILI is also into the groundsource heat pump business. I am interested in eventually going in that direction, but there is not much activity in them at the moment in this locale. I know of one commercial installation that has reportedly worked out well, but another guy who wanted to put one in his shop said that the well driller really wasn't interested.
 

sparky1562

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Nashville, TN
Seems like a really cheap price. I have asked by mechanical engineer friends if they had any experience with these units. Other split systems like this are $2-3K range.
 

79firebird

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No i dident install my self as i was to buzy but i did help install one down the block from me there real eazy to install.
 

79firebird

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you dont need special tools if you get the pre charged lines with it. if you dont you need a ac guy to fill it up.
 
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