Panel and Outlet Rough-In Look OK?

[Sunstealer73]

I finished the electrical rough-in for my panel, receptacles, switches, and lights this afternoon. I used about 650ft of 12/2. There are two 20-amp circuits for lights (right side+outside, left side+motion), three 20-amp circuits for receptacles (left side+front/ceiling, back, right side), , one 20-amp circuit for 2nd floor, and three 240/20 circuits (compressor, mini-split, and lift).

Here is the panel, obviously missing the feed from the house and missing one 240/20 breaker:

4-Gang Light Switch, 2 Feeds, 4 Light Circuits:

Receptacles down the right side, two of the 240/20 boxes up higher near the corner:

Close-Up of Receptacle:

Anyone see any obvious problems? I plan on trenching to the house over the next couple of days and getting that ready. Will hopefully get my rough-in inspection before this weekend so I can start insulating. Will be running 2/2/2/4 AL from the house (about 30 feet) and using a 90-amp breaker in the main panel.

 

[ForceFed70]

I see a couple of things.

- Generally, you want to strip off the outer jacket at the point where it enters the panel (instead of leaving a few inches). I don't think it's "wrong" but it is best practice.

- In my area, you are not allowed to have 20A circuits for lighting. 15A maximum by code. Not sure if it's a NEC thing or something local. But you will want to look into that. You should be able to just throw in a 15A breaker and use the 12ga wire so long as you don't need more than 15A.

- It looks like you are using the neutral bus bar as your ground bus bar. You'll have to change that. Looks like you have enough wire in the panel luckily. In fact, it looks like you have no ground buss in that panel. Those both appear to be neutral bus's to my untrained eye, but I also see no buss bar tying them together. If nothing else, you will need to swap where your ground and neutral wires go. Hopefully one of the experts will clarify this for you.

 

[luvit]

my comment will not be to code, but i like idea of a few extra inches for labeling.. i'll use that on my next box..

 

[Sunstealer73]

I am using the left for ground and right for neutral. I do need the lug on the right side for the neutral that will be coming from the house though. I didn't realize until you said that that it was missing. The two sides were bonded out of the box, I removed the bar, but missed that I need another lug.

 

[Steevo]

Why are there wire nuts in the panel?

 

[Sunstealer73]

OK, I went out and checked the instruction sheet for this panel and see what I did wrong. When you remove the bonding bar, the bus with the lug on it is the neutral and the one with no lug is the ground. I just swapped the lug over to the right side where I actually terminated my neutrals, so I should be fine there now.

The wire nuts are just covering the 240/20 hots that I do not have a breaker for yet. I actually have it, but it is in main panel powering my compressor in my attached garage. That space in the main panel will be getting the 90A breaker for this subpanel and the compressor (and the missing 20A breaker) will be moving to the new garage once I can turn power on.

 

[mypov]

As well you should leave a little loop of wire outside the boxes (for your outlets and light switch boxes) for future - just in case someone cuts a wire, or if you need a little extra in times to come.

 

[BigJohn20]

What wire are you actually running to the subpanel? Is it 2-2-2-4 URD?

 

[Rosco]

Looks good to me.

 

[Sunstealer73]

What wire are you actually running to the subpanel? Is it 2-2-2-4 URD?

Yes. most places call it "mobile home feed". I'll have 1.5" conduit between the two buildings 18" deep.

 

[pattenp]

Since you reversed the bars for the neutral and ground make sure the bar for your ground is bonded to the box and the neutral bar is not bonded to the box. I can't tell by the picture if the ground bar is bonded to the box.

 

[AussieDan]

Yeah your panel should have come with a green screw to bond the ground bus to the panel enclosure, it just needs to be screwed into the empty hold in the face of the bus, the enclosure will have a hole punched for it to screw into.

 

[MrMark]

As well you should leave a little loop of wire outside the boxes (for your outlets and light switch boxes) for future - just in case someone cuts a wire, or if you need a little extra in times to come.

You mean in the pigtail?

 

[jake26]

Is it common practice to expose your wires in the gang boxes before the walls go up?

The reason I am asking is that I am doing my garage and just have the romex rolled up in the gangs. I assumed it would be safer when doing drywall.

 

[mrb]

Is it common practice to expose your wires in the gang boxes before the walls go up?

The reason I am asking is that I am doing my garage and just have the romex rolled up in the gangs. I assumed it would be safer when doing drywall.

yes, you want to make up your grounds and other splices before rough in inspection

 

[rabidsquirrel]

Why are there wire nuts in the panel?

Looks like an oops. Nothing wrong with wire nuts in the panel.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I'll give you a C+ for neatness. I like the wires in the panel nice and straight, no wavyness, with nice smooth 90 degree bends into the breakers and I put the grounds and neutrals distinctly below/underneath the hots on the breakers, two separate bundles. on each side, one for hots, one for neutral or ground depending on the side of the panel.

Charles

 

[snorky18]

Since you reversed the bars for the neutral and ground...

I understand the need to bond the ground bar to the panel using the green screw.

And I understand the need for ground and neutral to be completely seperated in a subpanel.

My question is, what's the physical difference (if any) between the right and left bars? As long as they are properly bonded / isolated, does it matter which side is ground and which is neutral? Is there a typical convention?

 

[I void warranties]

i see you chose to put the panel upside down, now you have to run your feed cable from bottom. sink a grounding rod or two as close to panel as possible. maybe a circuit protector for that panel? why did you use plastic duplex boxes? protector plates over drill spots, 15 amp breaker on lamps. use 20 amp switches and duplexes. when you bring the service in keep it in conduit all the way to the panel. make sure your cable is rated for burial use. looks like a homeowner job, maybe get a electrician in just to go over what you did. code only goes so far.

 

[mypov]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypov View Post
As well you should leave a little loop of wire outside the boxes (for your outlets and light switch boxes) for future - just in case someone cuts a wire, or if you need a little extra in times to come.

- Not necessarily the "pig tails" but where your wire comes into the box it is code here to have staples within 14" of the box (I believe) which you have - BUT, after the staple it is important not to have the wire tight from the staple into the box and then spliced (within code you need to have this slack less then a foot) but it's just nice to have some space to play with and makes things easier if in future there is ever a re wire or if you need to make any changes.

***maybe y'all don't do this in the states, but when I was doing my first year apprenticeship I was told always to leave a little loop of wire just outside the box, must be more of a courtesy thing - I just googled' electrical rough in, and did not see any pictures with the "loop" - my advice would be just not to have these wires too tight between the junction boxes...*** sorry for the confusion - I hope it is going well.

 

[rwreuter]

Yeah your panel should have come with a green screw to bond the ground bus to the panel enclosure, it just needs to be screwed into the empty hold in the face of the bus, the enclosure will have a hole punched for it to screw into.

not true.....a sub panel needs to have a "floating neutral"

 

[rwreuter]

concerning the 4 gang box for your switches.

the neutrals all need to be tied together as do the ground wires. the only reason that the neutrals should not all be tied together is if those switches are powered by separate circuit breakers.

 

[ForceFed70]

not true.....a sub panel needs to have a "floating neutral"

He said "bond the ground buss to the panel" not the neutral buss

 

[AussieDan]

I had a hard time finding a lug to suit my panel locally, then realized that the regular terminals in the bus are rated for up to 4awg so I ran the ground from the 2-2-2-4 directly into the bus.

rwreuter: if you look at the attached pic you can see the ground bus on the left with the ground coming from the main panel, ground from the 2 ground rods, and the green bonding screw grounding the panel enclosure just behind the wires feeding my welder outlet.

 

[Cobra6]

I would put metal nail guard plates on the studs where the wire goes through it.
They are about 20 cents each at Home Depot.

 

[ForceFed70]

I would put metal nail guard plates on the studs where the wire goes through it.
They are about 20 cents each at Home Depot.

I think that's overkill when using 2x6 framing, but it certainly won't hurt.

 

[rwreuter]

I had a hard time finding a lug to suit my panel locally, then realized that the regular terminals in the bus are rated for up to 4awg so I ran the ground from the 2-2-2-4 directly into the bus.

rwreuter: if you look at the attached pic you can see the ground bus on the left with the ground coming from the main panel, ground from the 2 ground rods, and the green bonding screw grounding the panel enclosure just behind the wires feeding my welder outlet.

that looks nice....if i remember correctly, the neutral needs to have either a white stripe on it or white phase tape wrapped around it. I can't tell from the picture if there is a stripe on it or not.

I see the bond screw now, i just misread the earlier post.


rw

 

[Trainman]

why did you use plastic duplex boxes?

OK, I'll bite (especially since I just rewired my garage using plastic boxes exclusively ). What's wrong with plastic boxes?

 

[rabidsquirrel]

OK, I'll bite (especially since I just rewired my garage using plastic boxes exclusively ). What's wrong with plastic boxes?

Nothing. With plastic you don't have to ground it, meaning one less wire in the box.

 

[Cobra6]

I think that's overkill when using 2x6 framing, but it certainly won't hurt.

Yep - to me it looked like 2"x4" framing in the picture

 

[Sunstealer73]

OK, I'll bite (especially since I just rewired my garage using plastic boxes exclusively ). What's wrong with plastic boxes?

I was wondering the same thing. I have seen posts on here in the past downing them, but never understood why. I wonder if it is a regional thing? I have literally never seen a house in my area (built in the last several years anyway) that had anything other than plastic boxes. I see metal boxes in school buildings, surface mount stuff, etc., but all residential with NM cable is plastic.

On a side note, I did get my feeder wire in last night and everything is ready for my inspection tomorrow afternoon. I was going to take another pic, but it was too dark before I thought of it. I have the panel bonded to the grounding bus now.

I did find out that pulling 2/2/2/4 sheathed cable in a 1.5" conduit is not easy! The pulling was not bad, but getting that last six inches to lay flat in an LB is nearly impossible. I finally got them in, but it was a real pain (figuratively and literally). I wish I had just bought regular individual conductors instead, but I thought the single sheathed cable would be easier .. NOT! I have pulled hundreds of miles of Cat5, telephone, coax, fiber, etc. over the years and this was the 2nd hardest pull I have done. The hardest was a 300' RG6 through a 3/4" conduit that went under a very active road and had obviously partially collapsed at some point.

 

[mrb]

i dont understand why people keep pulling cable through conduit. Conduit is for individual wires. Cable is for using without conduit.

 

[AussieDan]

rwreuter: Yes, I still need to wrap the ends of the neutral with some white tape (didn't have any at the time).

Sunstealer73: The usual 2-2-2-4 USE-2 "mobile home feeder" wire doesn't have a sheath on it, are you sure you didn't end up with grey SER cable by mistake? If that is the case, the SER isn't approved for wet locations like underground conduit.

 

[acer66]

OK, I'll bite (especially since I just rewired my garage using plastic boxes exclusively ). What's wrong with plastic boxes?

Nothing wrong with them, of course not as sturdy as metal boxes
and they have the advantage, like it was said before, you do not have to ground them.
You also do not need clamps but I can see that people like to use metal boxes
when you plug in and out a lot of stuff like in a working space.

What I do not like about the cheap flimsy plastic boxes is that they often deform
when you attach them (new work) to framing which is not straight.

 

[Sunstealer73]

Everything passed on my inspection this afternoon!

The cable I used is rated for wet locations and for use in conduit. The reason I used cable instead of individual wires is that I had to go up a wall cavity inside the house. Due to the way my meter and other utilities are located, I had to go into my attached garage about 8 feet across the wall from my panel. I then ran the conduit against the wall and went into the wall immediately below the panel. I suppose I could have used one of the larger flex conduits, but this seemed easier.

Now for insulation and drywall!

 

[Aceman]

Everything passed on my inspection this afternoon!

The cable I used is rated for wet locations and for use in conduit. The reason I used cable instead of individual wires is that I had to go up a wall cavity inside the house. Due to the way my meter and other utilities are located, I had to go into my attached garage about 8 feet across the wall from my panel. I then ran the conduit against the wall and went into the wall immediately below the panel. I suppose I could have used one of the larger flex conduits, but this seemed easier.

Now for insulation and drywall!

Are you in the US or Canada?

The only sheathed cable I know of in the US like you described is SER, and that sure isn't for underground use. Post a pic, lets see what you got.

Mobile home feeder is four individual conductors twisted together with no outer sheath.

 

[Sunstealer73]

I don't have any pics, it is all covered up now. It was rated for wet locations and the inspector saw everything, so I think I did it correctly. I noticed the conductors inside were XHHW-2 when I stripped it for termination. I used the same cable at my last house to my garage and it passed too, in a different locality.

 

[Aceman]

You can't take pics of the inside of your panel?

You should know that passed and legal aren't the same thing.

The three insulated conductors in SER are usually XHHW like you described. It's the fourth bare aluminum grounding conductor that's the problem.

If you have some new fangled cable I don't know about I'd like to see it, but I only know of one like you've described and it's not legal for underground, whether your inspector passes it or not.

 

[I void warranties]

plastic boxes in a garage tend to break down over time. i have seen them cracked and stripped, being used in a shop atmosphere plugging devices in and out on a regular basis results in breakdown, had to change one out just to replace a duplex, couldn't mount the duplex tight in the box... not to mention the weather takes a toll on them too. they probably work fine for you. second pic of the service panel looks great.

 

[mrb]

If you have some new fangled cable I don't know about I'd like to see it, but I only know of one like you've described and it's not legal for underground, whether your inspector passes it or not.

there's tray cable which is listed for direct burial, but I highly doubt the OP ended up with that....