Panel ground

[farphle]

When I bought my house a year ago the inspector recommended that a ground be installed from the panel to a water pipe, so the previous owners had that done. A new copper wire was run to the garage and connected to one of the pipes for the water heater.

During a bathroom remodel this past week I noticed that there was already a ground (alum) running from the panel through the wall connected to a water pipe for the shower. Being hidden in the wall I guess it was easy to miss.

House was built in '69 and is 85% aluminum wiring (I'm slowly replacing each circuit with copper).

Question is...Do I need both grounds, or can I remove the one in the wall of the shower?

 

[pattenp]

Only one ground is needed. You can remove the aluminum one if you want to.

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW - if it was my house, I'd upgrade that to the current two copper rods, 6' apart with a #4 copper connection to the box. I'd not be very trusting of a water pipe. Our pipes are copper but the incoming and the main are all plastic. Not much "ground" to that.

 

[madosta]

My water pipes are all pex... so for ground I must have this "isolated ground" huh?

Hehehehe....

 

[farphle]

Thanks guys! I'll remove the old ground and look into adding the two rods and #4 copper to the box.

 

[Nostraquedeo]

Might also want to make sure that between the copper pipe inside and the copper that goes outside their is not an interruption in the copper, like a plastic fiitting or back-flow preventer or something like that. If there is, then you'll need to tie ahead of that or jumper it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My sister sold her house a couple of years ago. Buyer had a private inspector in and told them the ground from the box to the water pipe was insufficient (even though it was at the time it was built). They had to run a continuous ground from the box, clamped to the house side of the water meter, then jump the meter and clamped again.

I was surprised the guy didn't want ground rods for this 30+ year old house !

 

[Highbeam]

When I swapped my panel I reused the original ground. Couldn't show the state inspector the rods so he made me install two and run a new ground. As if that wasn't enough he also made me run the big fat ground to my copper hot water, cold water, and my copper drain lines. One ground linked to all the pipes was fine but that was a pain.

 

[BigGMC]

Reading the OP's post, I'm thinking the inspector was suggesting the water system be bonded to the exsisting grounding. That's code right?
He didn't mean to treat the water system piping as the primary earth ground.

farphle - are you sure there isn't a grounding conductor (usually bare) leaving the panel and heading directly outside to a ground rod?

 

[pattenp]

Reading the OP's post, I'm thinking the inspector was suggesting the water system be bonded to the exsisting grounding. That's code right?
He didn't mean to treat the water system piping as the primary earth ground.

farphle - are you sure there isn't a grounding conductor (usually bare) leaving the panel and heading directly outside to a ground rod?

That's what I was assuming when I posted my reply. One ground wire to bond the plumbing.

 

[farphle]

Reading the OP's post, I'm thinking the inspector was suggesting the water system be bonded to the exsisting grounding. That's code right?
He didn't mean to treat the water system piping as the primary earth ground.

farphle - are you sure there isn't a grounding conductor (usually bare) leaving the panel and heading directly outside to a ground rod?

I'm positive that the bare copper ground goes from the water pipe directly to the panel. I don't have a ground rod outside, but I will soon!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If you haven't already, go out and buy enough Co/ALr receptacles to replace every one in the house, and install them using some NoOx paste. This will buy you time while you do the rewire. I went thru the same situation one time, and found a couple of burned receptacles, so I replaced them all to buy me time while I rewired. Was about 50% done when I sold the house.

You could very well have a receptacle cooking in your wall right now and not know it.

Charles

 

[Pure Oil]

FWIW - if it was my house, I'd upgrade that to the current two copper rods, 6' apart with a #4 copper connection to the box. I'd not be very trusting of a water pipe. Our pipes are copper but the incoming and the main are all plastic. Not much "ground" to that.

I will second that (that's the ground set up I did also)

 

[matt151617]

It would also be a good time to install a cable and phone surge protector and bond it to the grounding wire.

 

[Zeke]

If you haven't already, go out and buy enough Co/ALr receptacles to replace every one in the house, and install them using some NoOx paste. This will buy you time while you do the rewire. I went thru the same situation one time, and found a couple of burned receptacles, so I replaced them all to buy me time while I rewired. Was about 50% done when I sold the house.

You could very well have a receptacle cooking in your wall right now and not know it.

Charles

I had a similar house built in the Viet Nam era when copper was in short supply. I pigtailed regular receptacles with copper to the AL with Cu/Al rated wire nuts and Noaolx paste. I don't trust Al wires on lugs and they didn't have the clamp style available when I did this. Plus, Al gets brittle so it's good to have some copper to fold back into the box should you need to pull the device back out later. This is really important with lighting as fixtures get taken down more frequently.