Panel label is missing..

[PoorOwner]

Basically I am trying to determine which spot can accept tandem breaker (if any).

It's a GE panel that use "Q" breakers.. where they are 1/2", 1", or 2".. for example to make a quad, you use a 1/2", 1", 1/2"

from what I read the GE panels should be fairly obvious if the spot won't take it, then you wouldn't be able to put it there?

This is unlike some of the other brand panels where you can still put Non current limiting version of breaker to get around the issue. Not that I planned to do that. I just wanted to know which spot can take tandems

Getting the listed breakers is fairly easy to figure out from the original breakers.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

a quad breaker should be one physical breaker with 4 poles.

a NON CTL breaker should NOT be used to get around the "issue" or rejection feature of CTL panels. Nor is it code compliant.

IF u cant find the answer, I would email GE and see what info u can give them so they can tell u what breaker to use.

I have emailed GE in the past and they are very responsive...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

A sq-d panel is the perfect cure for a ge panel.

 

[Stuff]

If you look at the bus there will be a small perpendicular bar where tandems attach to. THQP style.

Here is an example of some stabs that shorted out.

 

[mm08822]

Take a pic of any labeling/stickers you can find and post it.

It is probably a Class - CTL Panelboard. CTL is going to limit you to the number branch circuits equaling the number of breaker spaces. Meaning no tandems, quads permitted.

You should find on the label the number of "poles maximum" and the buss arrangement. When tandems are allowed in a position, you typically see an additional dotted line/cb symbol in those positions in the buss arrangement.

It will also list all of the permitted breaker styles.

I was able to lower the res of a recent ge panel label pic to illustrate this.

 

[PoorOwner]

the builder already put in one tandem breaker though.. it was built around 1997. I have about a shred of sticker I will take a picture..


wyliesdiesels, I can't find one single breaker with 4 poles, only like this one where it goes in middle, with 2 slim ones flanking it.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Line-50-Amp-1-in-Double-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-THQP250/100356520

 

[wyliesdiesels]

the builder already put in one tandem breaker though.. it was built around 1997. I have about a shred of sticker I will take a picture..


wyliesdiesels, I can't find one single breaker with 4 poles, only like this one where it goes in middle, with 2 slim ones flanking it.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Line-50-Amp-1-in-Double-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-THQP250/100356520

Perhaps GE doesnt make quads. Im not super familiar with their product lines so i would have to research it.

However, unless the breaker is 4 poles and one piece, it would not be considered a quad.

What you posted above is simply a double pole breaker and 2 single pole breakers. They are not one piece...

 

[mm08822]

I would pull all breakers and see where (if) the stabs are all the same or some are different.
How many full size breaker spaces does this panel have?

I would also get the part number from the existing tandem. Also check to see if it wasn't modified to fit.

 

[Norcal]

Perhaps GE doesnt make quads. Im not super familiar with their product lines so i would have to research it.

However, unless the breaker is 4 poles and one piece, it would not be considered a quad.

What you posted above is simply a double pole breaker and 2 single pole breakers. They are not one piece...

With GE no quads are required their twins come in single pole & 2 pole versions so 240V circuits can be possible. How they are plugged in the panel will matter though.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

With GE no quads are required their twins come in single pole & 2 pole versions so 240V circuits can be possible. How they are plugged in the panel will matter though.

Oh duh.

I totally forgot how GE has slim 1/2" wide breakers.... silly me...

This no sleep thing is killing me...

 

[mm08822]

OP, Here is link to panel/breaker cut sheet. As Norcal said, no quads are made. But you could get 3 or 4 ckts out of 2 full 1" spaces depending on what you buy.

Those 1/2 space tabs sure look skimpy on contact surface. What was in there previously where stabs are damaged?

Obviously abandon those burnt stab positions for the 1/2" cb's. Full size use still looks usable.

http://www.geindustrial.com/catalog/buylog/01_BuyLog2013_LoadCtrCircBreak.pdf

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP, Here is link to panel/breaker cut sheet. As Norcal said, no quads are made. But you could get 3 or 4 ckts out of 2 full 1" spaces depending on what you buy.

Those 1/2 space tabs sure look skimpy on contact surface. What was in there previously where stabs are damaged?

Obviously abandon those burnt stab positions for the 1/2" cb's. Full size use still looks usable.

http://www.geindustrial.com/catalog/buylog/01_BuyLog2013_LoadCtrCircBreak.pdf

The pics posted are not the OPs pics...

 

[PoorOwner]

So I got to ask seeing the pic of that melted bus tab.

Is there a problem having 4 circuits in that space that seems power "heavy"

for example 20 40-40 20 . The 40 is used for a welder and 20 used for a lift, I know I won't be striking arc while operating a lift. (OK, you say I will have buddies over, but I don't. No one is touching lift button at my ceiling). Both equipment is not rated 100% duty cycle.

I know, need load calc and limited to number of circuit in panel. It's a 200 amp panel and there is some space left. These are circuits used for specific equipment, so I am not expecting someone to repurpose the lift circuit and run a central vacuum with it, and the welder circuit for a wall oven.
I also remove these types circuits when I sell the house.

 

[mm08822]

The pics posted are not the OPs pics...

Okaaaaaay, I missed that! Nevermind!!!

 

[Bert_]

THQP breakers will fit in spaces with the additional tabs on the bus, like shown in the picture above.

I would not be worried about a welder or a lift running on the slim THQP breakers. Both of those loads are low duty cycle and unlikely to cause any significant heating of the breaker or buss connection, unless your doing production welding or something.

Do be aware that THQP breakers are only available up to 50A. Just something to keep in mind in case you plan on running larger circuits.

 

[PoorOwner]

This is the label does anyone recognize it

The diagram for the bus doesn't show differences in lines
Maybe that's not the diagram for tandem.
But I will know for sure when I pull the breaker off

You are saying the bus doesn't take the THQP breakers if it was not supposed to. Right.


There is blank lines to write 39 circuits but I am not even close to that. Only one side had circuits and only one is tandem

 

[mm08822]

This is the label does anyone recognize it

The diagram for the bus doesn't show differences in lines
Maybe that's not the diagram for tandem.
But I will know for sure when I pull the breaker off

You are saying the bus doesn't take the THQP breakers if it was not supposed to. Right.


There is blank lines to write 39 circuits but I am not even close to that. Only one side had circuits and only one is tandem

Label indicates a 200amp interior and next to branch spaces it has "USE THQP". That alone should indicate they fit somewhere in the panel. Question is where and how many?

The label doesn't show the buss diagram I was referring to.
It is probably a 40 or 42 space panel. Count the number of 1" spaces. how many?
To further narrow in on what you have (by catalog #):
Confirm main breaker size
Breaker located top or bottom of panel?
Single phase or 3 phase?
Interior or exterior rated panel?
Is there a meter integral with this panel?

Post pics of panel interior – full view, close up of the empty buss stabs from top to bottom and any random labels and stamps.

 

[PoorOwner]

Here are 2 pics I took right now. Can we look up the UL listing number and derive the panel model?

The meter is on the box to the left.. it has security locks on it.

Too much rain lately to be working on it.

it has 24x 1" slots

You can see the left side is completely not used yet, they used to have a Tesla or EV there? that breaker now is a blank.

Now that I think about it, since there is space maybe I will put the welder breaker as a non-tandem, where they had that EV breaker. that maybe one day we will get a EV and be using that plug for charging which will demand a higher duty cycle.

 

[brewchief]

I think I would see if I could send GE customer service an email with what info you have and see if they can id the panel and possibly send you a sticker or at least a pdf of the sticker that you could print out, there should be enough info for them to figure it out.

 

[PoorOwner]

Finally stopped raining, and I was able to look inside, thanks to the picture referenced above that shows what tandem bus slot looks like, I am able to ID the slots that can have tandem breaker.
So that of answer the question that I had.
Since there is only current 1 slot using tandem. For what I want to do, I know won't exceed the panel's intended design even if I don't have the label.

anything else I am missing please let me know.




max amount of breakers

8 x 1" (top 4 (non-tandem)

32 x 1/2" (bottom 8 with tandem bus tabs)

Therefore the 40 circuit on the shred of labels that I have.

 

[Norcal]

What is the 125A breaker at the upper right, it's only shown in the photo of the panel with the deadfront in place?

 

[mm08822]

This could possibly be your panel in the attached screenshots. If so, you are good for 40 ckts. I wouldn't worry any more about this. You have plenty of room/options.

 

[PoorOwner]

What is the 125A breaker at the upper right, it's only shown in the photo of the panel with the deadfront in place?

It is also stamped MAIN disconnect just like the lower one, and it shuts off a 100-125amp sub panel in the garage which is packed with breakers for the home. (at least I think so, I have not tried)

it's not field cut. you can't have 2 panels that is considered main... can you?
Maybe it was meant for 2nd meter if there was a 2nd meter.

 

[mm08822]

It is also stamped MAIN disconnect just like the lower one, and it shuts off a 100-125amp sub panel in the garage which is packed with breakers for the home. (at least I think so, I have not tried)

it's not field cut. you can't have 2 panels that is considered main... can you?
Maybe it was meant for 2nd meter if there was a 2nd meter.

See detail in first pic of my last reply for this 125a breaker - has nothing to do with a 2nd meter.
You can have up to 6 throws of hand for disconnecting purposes and this panel comes with provisions for 2.

 

[brewchief]

Looking at that diagram it says it's for a TOD breaker, I'm thinking time of day breaker for a reduced rate for water heating or electric heat/A/C.

 

[mm08822]

Looking at that diagram it says it's for a TOD breaker, I'm thinking time of day breaker for a reduced rate for water heating or electric heat/A/C.

Hard to read at low res, but catalog says TQD which is a GE breaker style such as TQD22125WL 2P 125A.