Pantry small appliances circuits questions.

[acer66]

Hey,

does a pantry countertop also have the requirement of having at least two 20A circuits like a kitchen countertop?
Pantry is in the adjacent room to the kitchen and will have a sink if that matters.

Writing this I wonder and I know this a very long shot but could one of the kitchen countertop circuits also serve the pantry counter top receptacles?

Thank you.

 

[exranger06]

I'm not positive on 2 circuits being required for the pantry, but I'm leaning towards "no."

For your 2nd question, the answer is "yes" they can be on the same circuit as the kitchen countertop receptacles. Code requires only a minimum of 2 circuits for ALL kitchen receptacles, including pantries and dining rooms. So you could put some kitchen countertop receptacles on one circuit, AND put some other kitchen wall receptacles or pantry receptacles on that same circuit. Then you can put the other kitchen countertop receptacles on the other circuit, AND put other wall receptacles or dining room receptacles on that same circuit.

 

[75gmck25]

AFAIK, if they require two small appliance circuits in the pantry area, then it is usually considered part of the kitchen and those circuits can be the same ones used for the kitchen counters.

 

[ybnormal]

interesting, outlets IN the pantry? I have a pantry closet in the kitchen corner and have no outlets there. if there is a door, does that make it a difference space than the kitchen where GFCI is normally required?

 

[dcg9381]

Whatcha putting in there? Some kitchen devices that heat can be high draw and I'd want them on a separate circuit.

 

[sparky 1971]

2020 Code Language:

210.52(B) Small Appliances.

(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit as required in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.

Exception No. 2: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, a receptacle outlet to serve a specific appliance shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.



At a minimum, the pantry receptacles must be part of the kitchen small appliance circuit(s). There is nothing that states a pantry can't have dedicated 20 amp circuits to it though.

 

[nadogail]

The definition of a Pantry is not well defined. A pantry can be a small kitchen or just a storage area.

One of my rentals has a pantry that is just a narrow closet that you have barely enough room to walk sideways in front of the shelves.

I have seen pantries that lacked only a range; with a range and dishwasher, they would be a full kitchen.

 

[acer66]

Thanks for all the good info.

I should have been a bit more specific.

The pantry will have besides shelves for food etc also have a countertop where the bigger small appliances like a kitchen aid, dehydrator etc. live so they are readily available without taking up space in the kitchen.

Which is also the reason for a small sink so things can get cleaned up etc..

 

[ybnormal]

Thanks for all the good info.

I should have been a bit more specific.

The pantry will have besides shelves for food etc also have a countertop where the bigger small appliances like a kitchen aid, dehydrator etc. live so they are readily available without taking up space in the kitchen.

Which is also the reason for a small sink so things can get cleaned up etc..

sounds like a kitchen to me since it is a food prep area. and if you have water....that's a GFCI right there

 

[sparky 1971]

Thanks for all the good info.

I should have been a bit more specific.

The pantry will have besides shelves for food etc also have a countertop where the bigger small appliances like a kitchen aid, dehydrator etc. live so they are readily available without taking up space in the kitchen.

Which is also the reason for a small sink so things can get cleaned up etc..

The official code definition of a kitchen is: an area with a sink and permanent provisions for food prep and cooking. I've heard it argued that a microwave, counter, and a sink make a kitchen. If it's a countertop microwave I disagree but you are still on the borderline of having another kitchen.

 

[dcg9381]

.. but you are still on the borderline of having another kitchen.

I agree that it might be interpreted that way. My house, that's getting a separate circuit (GFCI). Might be a coffee maker in there. Air fryers also tend to **** up some amps.

 

[u2slow]

Think of usage first, and then meet code.

The feature of a countertop (in a pantry) makes it sensible to have 2 circuits available. It's likely to get stacked with small appliances and possibly have 2 or 3 running at the same time.

I would see about stretching the other counter-top circuit(s) in there. It's not about extra load but rather a convenience of location.

 

[acer66]

The official code definition of a kitchen is: an area with a sink and permanent provisions for food prep and cooking. I've heard it argued that a microwave, counter, and a sink make a kitchen. If it's a countertop microwave I disagree but you are still on the borderline of having another kitchen.

Since there will be a sink and an instant pot etc it seems I will play it save and get 2 circuits in there especially since I do not know how long I will live here and I do not want surprises when I sell.

 

[ycgoat]

I am not up to speed on the code, but seem to remember requirements for an outlet above the counters larger than 12”

 

[PCustoms]

You've got 1.5 kitchens and you are trying to be cheap on a couple extra circuits?

 

[acer66]

Think of usage first, and then meet code.

The feature of a countertop (in a pantry) makes it sensible to have 2 circuits available. It's likely to get stacked with small appliances and possibly have 2 or 3 running at the same time.

I would see about stretching the other counter-top circuit(s) in there. It's not about extra load but rather a convenience of location.

Yup and I have to tap into those since my breaker panel is maxed out.

 

[sparky 1971]

Since there will be a sink and an instant pot etc it seems I will play it save and get 2 circuits in there especially since I do not know how long I will live here and I do not want surprises when I sell.

It won't be an issue when selling. A home inspector knows GFCI's, double tapped breakers, open knockouts that need sealed, missing romex connectors, and some will call out oversized breakers, but a lot of times those are for the AC and compliant. If you're going to have kitchen type appliances in there play it safe and put in the 20 amp circuits.

 

[acer66]

You've got 1.5 kitchens and you are trying to be cheap on a couple extra circuits?

No, I just wanted to know and meet the code.
Kitchen has 3 countertop circuits and since I can tap into those for the pantry I am good.
Until now I did not even know that I will have 1.5 kitchens.

 

[acer66]

I am not up to speed on the code, but seem to remember requirements for an outlet above the counters larger than 12”

Yes afaik and I like to have rather one receptacle too many.

 

[sparky 1971]

Yup and I have to tap into those since my breaker panel is maxed out.

Oh my gosh! Haven't you been paying attention? The second most popular topic on GJ is subpanels. Of course, the most popular by a big margin is what type of wax works best for a vice.

 

[acer66]

Oh my gosh! Haven't you been paying attention? The second most popular topic on GJ is subpanels. Of course, the most popular by a big margin is what type of polish works best for a vice.

Haha and yes at one point I was thinking about running a sub panel into the kitchen.

 

[sparky 1971]

Haha and yes at one point I was thinking about running a sub panel into the kitchen.

That's probably more work than necessary, but as long as you meet the clearances you could do that. That doesn't solve the problem of what to do with the two circuits crust have to be relocated to make room for the subpanel breaker though. Is the existing panel listed for twins? If so I think I'd use a couple and pull two new circuits to the pantry. If not, set a small panel next to the main and still take two new to it.

 

[acer66]

That's probably more work than necessary, but as long as you meet the clearances you could do that. That doesn't solve the problem of what to do with the two circuits crust have to be relocated to make room for the subpanel breaker though. Is the existing panel listed for twins? If so I think I'd use a couple and pull two new circuits to the pantry. If not, set a small panel next to the main and still take two new to it.

Yes indeed and I would most likely do a sub panel right next to the old one like you said but for now I seem to get away with what I have.