Paramo #6 Vise Find!

[gatewaysysop]

As I said before, when I found my big Athol 646 vise a short while ago, sometimes the hunt for big game turns up a true trophy buck. This weekend was no exception, and I came across a stunningly well cared for Paramo vise, something that had been on my "want list" for a long, long time.

It's a Paramo #6, 6" jaws and feels like it has be to be around 90-100 pounds. If I understand correctly, this particular one is made from cast steel, but would like to know if anyone can confirm. Mechanically she's about as sound as can possibly be, practically no rust/corrosion, jaws are in great shape and everything works as it should. It is my understanding that this is also factory original paint.

Apparently the seller got it from a friend who brought it over to the U.S. many decades ago. He was a very cool older gentleman and we had a good time talking shop about vises for a while. He also had some other vises for sale, but nothing I needed/wanted nor could afford given what I paid for this one.

The price was $195, but I gave him $220 for being a sport and holding it for me since we spoke on the phone yesterday night and this morning. I doubt I would ever find another Paramo locally, certainly not a 6" one and definitely nowhere near this condition.

What say you, gents? I'm stoked about adding this jewel to the collection.

 

[barcalo]

Wow that thing is a beast!

 

[PCO6]

... It's a Paramo #6, 6" jaws and feels like it has be to be around 90-100 pounds. If I understand correctly, this particular one is made from cast steel, but would like to know if anyone can confirm.

... It is my understanding that this is also factory original paint.

Paramos are great vices.

Paramos and Records are very similar. I have a Record No. 6 and it weighs 70 lbs. but it doesn't have a swivel base so yours will definitely weigh more than that. I also have a No. 8 and it weighs 82 lbs. - again, without a swivel base. As for the colour, I don't know if Paramo blue and Record blue are the same. If it helps, I've included a photo of my Record No. 6 which was painted with Valspar blue from a rattle can. It's a near perfect match to my Record No. 4 which I bought new in the 70's.

Paramo was an offshute of Record but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information available on the company. From another post of mine on GJ ... "I did read it (Paramo) was formed during WWII by the British government when it was concerned that its number one vice manufacturer, Record, would be bombed and destroyed. Another (story) was that disgruntled Record employees, including relatives of the founder of Record, formed a separate company and basically built the same vice. I'm not sure what the truth is but Record and Paramo vices are basically the same. You could also add Woden to the list."

A Google Images search of Paramo vices should lead you to some more info.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=3Od4T6P-OOfg0QG0hqjcDQ

 

[lwlobo]

Love it, great find, never seen one. I like how it says Hi Duty, Made in England.

How do the Paramo's compare to Record's?

Oops did't see PC06's reply...

 

[gatewaysysop]

Paramos are great vices.

Paramos and Records are very similar. I have a Record No. 6 and it weighs 70 lbs. but it doesn't have a swivel base so yours will definitely weigh more than that. I also have a No. 8 and it weighs 82 lbs. - again, without a swivel base.

I think you're right about the weight. From looking at it and handling the thing, I am sure that huge swivel base must be tacking on close to 20 lbs by itself, it is pretty stout.

Any idea on if this one is cast steel?

 

[PCO6]

^^^ I'm no expert on these things but I understand that, generally speaking, most vices are made of cast steel. I have no idea what the carbon content of Paramos, Records, etc. is or what the quality of the cast metal is but I can tell you that I have never seen one where the casting has broken. I have no doubt that some have but my guess would be that it would have been a result of abuse. Records are a very common vice in industrial use around here and have been for many years. They hold up and last for ever.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Still hoping someone can confirm whether or not this is supposed to be cast steel? I saw in at least one thread, something that said the 'hi duty' on the side implied cast steel, but I'm not sure where that comes from. Other than the 'ring test' to see how it sounds, any other ideas to verify by?

 

[Freeborn John]

Paramo were made by the Paramore foundry, a company which was already making castings for Record before they produced their own brand at the behest of the British government during WW2.
Since Record used castings of 'spheroidal graphite iron' (high carbon cast iron? Is there such a thing?) for their engineering vices I think it's safe to assume that Paramo did the same.

 

[Packard V8]

I've never seen a cast steel vise. Has anyone verified any major brand vise being cast steel?

jack vines

 

[Outlawmws]

Blacksmith post vises are forged steel, but that's not the same as cast steel...

I also have a Paramo No.6, with the swivel base, and the base is massive, so I wouldn't doubt it tips the scale at 100 or so..

Color; Mine appears darker, more the shade of the Record shown, but the lighter color of the OP's could be an artifact of the flash/camera being used.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I think other than my first photo, the color is pretty close to the what it looks like in person. Also, while searching, I found this thread which has pictures of the same type of vise. If you look carefully at the second photo and the mounting tab near the front of the vise, you can see a patch of what looks like the same blue color here, so I'm starting to wonder if this is indeed original paint. I've seen a few very old Record vises that had a blue like this, but haven't been able to find those pics as of yet.

I have to say I dig the red lettering on the blue paint, I wouldn't have thought it would good, but it does.

 

[PCO6]

... I've seen a few very old Record vises that had a blue like this, but haven't been able to find those pics as of yet.

Here's a picture of my Record No. 4 mentioned in post #3 above. I purchased it new in the mid 70's. I touched up the front with Valspar blue but the rest of the vice is the original Record blue. BTW - that's a Record No. 8 in the background with the original paint on it.

 

[RecordVices]

I am seriously into collecting vices after my dad found a No 1 Paramo vice in his garage that he generously gave to me and then i started looking for more and ended up with a Record No3, No4, No6 and still looking for a No5 and No8!

You cant beat the quality of Record Castings even if Paramo were the predecessors

 

[great white tj]

Nice find....

 

[Jan-Sietze]

If it is true that the Paramo No6 is still in its first paint,
then my color 'National bleu' is pretty close...

 

[David Jackson]

I have a Palermo No. 6 also. Many years ago (in 1972) I suffered a broken back and the doctors told me never to lift anything over 10 pounds, well you know how that goes!
However, I did not want to lift this vice so I used my cherry picker. Just out of curiosity I weighed it and came up with a figure around 105 lbs; maybe a little less. Mine has no paint.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I have a Palermo No. 6 also. Many years ago (in 1972) I suffered a broken back and the doctors told me never to lift anything over 10 pounds, well you know how that goes!
However, I did not want to lift this vice so I used my cherry picker. Just out of curiosity I weighed it and came up with a figure around 105 lbs; maybe a little less. Mine has no paint.

Curious, this weight includes the swivel base right? I figured (see original post) it was close to 100 pounds at the top end. If so, would be good confirmation. Thanks for sharing!

 

[David Jackson]

You are welcome for the weight sharing!
You guys on this site are too much for me! My Paramo sat on a sort of welding table for almost 36 years. When I read all the posts about them I figured I might as well mount mine. Boy am I glad that I own a cherry picker; without it I could not have done it.
Question; what are the grooves in the lower part for? Not knowing any better I put grease in them.
Here also are a few photos of my progress today.
My vice is certainly not the equal of yours; no way; however I cleaned and greased all the contact surfaces and it seems to work just fine.

 

[Engineer61]

Since Record used castings of 'spheroidal graphite iron' (high carbon cast iron? Is there such a thing?) for their engineering vices I think it's safe to assume that Paramo did the same.

"Spheroidal Graphite Iron" is usually called "Nodular Cast Iron" in the U.S. It's formed by adding a little magnesium to the cast iron (actually rather hard to do) and then heat-treating it after casting. Commonly used for engine crankshafts and connecting rods in the late 50's, 60's and 70's; not sure if the auto industry still does or if they have had to switch to forged steel for lighter weight. Much more ductile than standard cast iron and stronger, but still not up to the strength and ductility of forged steel.

 

[gatewaysysop]

You are welcome for the weight sharing!
You guys on this site are too much for me! My Paramo sat on a sort of welding table for almost 36 years. When I read all the posts about them I figured I might as well mount mine. Boy am I glad that I own a cherry picker; without it I could not have done it.

You may shortly find yourself addicted to vise collecting if you spend enough time on this site. A look at the infamous vises of garage journal thread, here, will show you the depth of some of our addictions.

In all seriousness though, the #6 Paramo is one of my favorites in the "collection" as it where. They're very stout pieces, extremely well made and definitely something different. Glad to see yours is complete with the swivel base, they are rare in this size and yours looks great.

 

[bulletpruf]

"Spheroidal Graphite Iron" is usually called "Nodular Cast Iron" in the U.S. It's formed by adding a little magnesium to the cast iron (actually rather hard to do) and then heat-treating it after casting. Commonly used for engine crankshafts and connecting rods in the late 50's, 60's and 70's; not sure if the auto industry still does or if they have had to switch to forged steel for lighter weight. Much more ductile than standard cast iron and stronger, but still not up to the strength and ductility of forged steel.

Plenty of applications for nodular iron on musclecars. The Pontiac guys out there are probably familiar with the stronger 10 bolt castings with the "N" (as in "nodular") cast into the nose of the housing. Stronger than the normal "gray iron" castings and came on the higher HP cars with higher (numerically) ratios. My 70 GTO has a factory 4.33 nodular rear.

 

[Canoe50]

Curious, this weight includes the swivel base right? I figured (see original post) it was close to 100 pounds at the top end. If so, would be good confirmation. Thanks for sharing!

Get the bathroom scale out & you'll know for sure what it weighs.

 

[neophyte]

I've never seen a cast steel vise. Has anyone verified any major brand vise being cast steel?

jack vines

Most steel vises I'm familiar with are made with a mixture of production methods, though I have seen some Record vises that say cast steel on the side, so I presume they may have been made from mostly cast parts.

I believe Sambre et Meuse vises from Belgium were mostly cast steel with a one piece casting for the dynamic jaw and slide, and a separate piece for the Static jaw.

Some of the spanish made vises were supposedly cast steel. I believe these are the ones made by Irimo both before and after Snap-On acquired them. The same designs seem to be produced in both high strength Spherical Iron, and cast steel, depending on who the vises are being produced for, or what name the vises are being sold under.

Some other imported vises are manufactured from a mix of cast steel and fabricated steel parts usually welded together. This includes some of the lower cost imported vises, such as the utility vises Yost sells. http://www.yostvises.com/utility-vises.html

Some higher end Vises such as the one produced in France by Dolex are also a mixture of casting and forging. The Dolex vises have a cast static jaw, a forged front jaw, and a formed slide that's welded to the front jaw forging.

http://www.dolex-vices.com/bench-vices/adjustable-bench-vices/type-50/

There are also vises from Turkey and Germany that are welded together from forged steel parts. Ridgid/Peddinghaus and Kanca are two manufacturers.

 

[David Jackson]

Thanks Gateway; I posted a shot of another old vise I have at the end of the infamous vises thread; can't make out the name; BRON, 6RON, GRON. It has been welded and I have beat it up for years with no problems.
BTW I read the vise advice on this site AFTER I took my Paramo apart and thoroughly greases all the surfaces which rub together, then read of the dirt attracting properties of grease (quite true).
And; what is the function of the grooves in the top half of the swivel base?

 

[Fretters]

I posted a shot of another old vise I have at the end of the infamous vises thread; can't make out the name; BRON, 6RON, GRON. It has been welded and I have beat it up for years with no problems.

Eron. A Japanese brand.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: i know Eron eventually made vises in Japan, but didn't they start out making vices in England? are they still owned by owners that live in England or was it always Japan and they just look a lot like the English vices?

 

[Fretters]

As far as I personally know, it's always been a Jap brand, though don't take that as gospel. The styling definitely seems a flagrant take on the British styling though, so I'm not sure how that came about.

 

[exmaxima1]

Another Paramo No. 6 Vice

I've been using a nameless Polish-made? 6-inch as my primary vise at work, and didn't want to change it out unless it was similarly size. I finally came across a Paramo No. 6 with the "largest swivel base ever seen on a vise" (per Outlaw), and it made me switch. All original, and the paint & jaws are in great shape. You can even see the beautiful machine marks on the top of the slide.

The only problem I see with it is that the huge base does not allow you to mount the rear jaw in front of the bench edge (for clamping tall things vertically), so I may need to mount another vise at the end of the bench for those rare situations.

 

[kelpaso1]

Would this be a good deal tor just fair price?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/sa...ty/1005591378?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

[exmaxima1]

Would this be a good deal tor just fair price?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/sa...ty/1005591378?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

You would need to examine the vise and see how badly it is rusted. I don't think that vise is worth $60, but I paid more than twice that amount for mine. I would look at the jaws for wear, look for chips (or missing chunks) in the castings, and pitting in the machined areas. Sure, you can repaint it, but if the vise is all pitted and chipped it is not worth $60. Also keep in mind that it is not a swivel model, so resale down the road is diminished.

 

[Outlawmws]

If I needed a vise and a) no cracks welds or other more than cosmetic damage, and b) Its functionally in decent shape (See Post above), then yes I'd consider that to be a decent deal for a good brand of 5"vise.

Rust alone I don't worry too much about, unless its eating into the structure of the vise.

Would I pay that much? No; but I don't NEED another vise!

 

[jaker10]

Re: Another Paramo No. 6 Vice

I've been using a nameless Polish-made? 6-inch as my primary vise at work, and didn't want to change it out unless it was similarly size. I finally came across a Paramo No. 6 with the "largest swivel base ever seen on a vise" (per Outlaw), and it made me switch. All original, and the paint & jaws are in great shape. You can even see the beautiful machine marks on the top of the slide.

The only problem I see with it is that the huge base does not allow you to mount the rear jaw in front of the bench edge (for clamping tall things vertically), so I may need to mount another vise at the end of the bench for those rare situations.

I agree about how you have to mount it. Here is my beater 6 inch swivel Paramo. I think it is 100 LBS.

 

[Outlawmws]

Now that's interesting: I have a Paramo "Hi-Duty" No 6 (probably newer?) and I dug back to where it's stored and it looks like the static jaw just clears the front edge of the swivel base...

 

[exmaxima1]

As rare as these seem to be, there is another one already on CL:

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/tls/4653656836.html

 

[BikerDad]

Paramo were made by the Paramore foundry, a company which was already making castings for Record before they produced their own brand at the behest of the British government during WW2.
Since Record used castings of 'spheroidal graphite iron' (high carbon cast iron? Is there such a thing?) for their engineering vices I think it's safe to assume that Paramo did the same.

yeah, y'all may wonder why I'm resurrecting an old thread. Two reasons. I have a line on an English made Record No 6 vise (not to be confused with an English made Record #6 plane), and I was looking for a good sense of the size, found this thread.

In this thread, I found the above question regarding "spheroidal graphite iron".

Yes, there is such a thing. That's just another name for Ductile cast iron, which is much tougher, i.e. less prone to cracking/breaking when suffering impacts, than regular cast iron. It's used in premium handplanes these days, because regular cast iron planes have a distressing tendency to crack/shatter when dropped onto the concrete floors in so many workshops. The upshot is, "spheroidal graphite iron" is the good stuff for making planes and vises. Really good stuff.

 

[Watsondog]

My 6" Paramo has a little issue should I be concerned with the swivel locking functionality after a good braze job?


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Ganymedes]

Watsondog, If you have a lathe for that size:no problem to turn a new one! Ganymedes

 

[ALLFAST]

Watsondog, have you taken Gany's advice Any progress with a braze or replacement ?

Shawn

 

[eddieK]

Paramo is a sound vise. I found a Paramo 5 with stand for $40.00 at a swap meet. It was very greasy and was packed with filth and no paint at all? That ledge on the slide gives great support, I think this is why it is so rare to find one with a cracked slide.

This is what it looked like and how it came out after restore.

upload gambar

AFTER

windows 7 screenshot

 

[visedog]

Paramo is a sound vise. I found a Paramo 5 with stand for $40.00 at a swap meet. It was very greasy and was packed with filth and no paint at all? That ledge on the slide gives great support, I think this is why it is so rare to find one with a cracked slide.

This is what it looked like and how it came out after restore.

upload gambar

AFTER

windows 7 screenshot

Good restoration! Looks beautiful in blue.