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Parasitic draw on cordless tools ?

The Cobbler

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A friend dropped by today for a chat. I had my Bosch 18v cordless drill out , he has one just like it. apparently his son does too .
he said, oh, you don't pull the battery out when you're not using it?
nope, why?
The batteries drain down.
Oh, really? did you read that in the instructions?
No, My son told me that . they told him that at work .

Really? I have a hard time believing this .
 
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darkzero

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None of my cordless tools have parasitic draw, not once that I have ever noticed anyway & I have left batteries on tools for months. I've had Milwaukee for the past 8 yrs. Before that was Dewalt li-ion, before that was Dewalt ni-cad.

My brother is a Bosch guy, I'll ask him if he has ever noticed with his tools.

However I recently got a M18 to Makita adapter. Now that thing did have parasitic draw. When I realized it (good thing I noticed before it drained the battery too much) I thought it was defective. Well the listing did say to remove the adapter from the battery for storage.

It's the USB charging port circuit which I don't care for anyway. I've been messing around with it off & on for the past few weeks, I actually just figured out how to stop the drain completely 2 days ago. Finally got it down to reading no more resistance across +/- terminals & absolutely no more current draw.

I took 2 resistors & 2 caps out of the circuit, also took the main IC out of circuit cause it seemed to be drawing a bit of current also.

20230524_212429.jpg
 
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Dave455

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I’ve got a Bosch 18V cordless drill as well (shown below).
328D4017-F9DF-4911-AD19-ABECD047AA5B.jpeg

If there’s any sort of parasitic discharge I’ve never noticed it. In fact, that particular drill / battery combination seems to be particularly good at retaining it’s charge.

The only item’s I’ve had problems with are things like flashlights with different modes, where the switch seems to be controlling a complex circuit that’s permanently powered, rather than actually cutting the power.

Maybe it’s a problem with cheaper cordless tools?
 

PoorUB

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I have a Ridgid cordless drill and driver set. Sometimes they might sit for months and not get used. The batteries will be fully charged when need them.
 

ronkz650

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All my M12 milwaukee tools can sit for years and still be fully charged. A Fluke scope meter can only sit a few days and will be dead, a Stihl hedge trimmer will also be dead in a few days. My old OTC Genisis scan tool will also be dead in a few days time.
 

plinker

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IME, I've had Milwaukee batteries with presumeably a full charge trickle down to 3/4 charge (based on the indicator lights), I puzzled about this and came to the conclusion that when jarred enough (and often enough) the light on whatever tool will come on for a short period and that's what was doing it. In particular, the m12 ratchets in the my one drawer will do this. They get used enough not to notice the battery drain from it though.
 

engineer2

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I leave my old Makita impact driver in the shed over the winter and it's always ready to go in the spring.
I leave batteries in most of my Makita tools and there is no problem with current draw.
 

ItsNemo

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The old nicad's would self discharge...so I can see where the rumour likely came from.
 

MarvinBerry

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I've got a bunch of Ryobi and have never noticed any sorta drain...

And if there is power **** it's not enough even long term... sitting for months that I've considered putting a meter on anything to measure.

Or maybe I'm just using the stuff often enough that it's not an issue?
 

FrogBlastTheVentCore

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All active devices have a quiescent current. This is a depressing, demoralizing engineering reality of active components and digital electronics. It’s worth the price of admission, but you can’t make it go away if you want to use things very basic things like op amps, FETs, microcontrollers, and so on in your design — totally normal stuff.

If you leave your battery pack attached to your tools, then naturally the total quiescent current will be the sum of that of the battery management system in the pack, and that of whatever is in the tool, which these days could even include **** like a radio module, because sometimes what you really need on a job site is to synchronize your drill to a Taylor Swift song. However, in a well-designed system, this is at absolute, embarrassingly-bad-worst maybe 25 microamps (uA,) i.e 25e-6 A. A microamp-hour (uA-h) is 10^-6 A-h. That would be why you don’t notice it so much.

It is tempting to think that because there is a switch or trigger in most battery operated tools, that this is like some kind of hard slicer switch that physically removes power. That is unfortunately very naive. The reality in a modern tool may be far more complex, with many electronic components in-circuit in spite of the “open” switch.

Personally, I think leaving battery packs attached to tools is undisciplined and generally unsafe because you are leaving the tool in a state where it could be activated, outside of a context where this is expected. A saw should really not turn on out of nowhere.

Don’t call this a “rumor,” though, that’s ignorant. It’s just typically very, very small.

As to OP’s son, if you were an institutional buyer of powertool battery packs, you might be motivated to care.
 
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bwringer

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Never noticed anything like this.

But I have noticed unwanted activation, many times, on tools being transported. Hit a bump, your tools jostle around, and something hits the trigger. Most of the time it's just harmless momentary activation, sometimes you have to dig it out before something gets damaged or it runs down the battery.

I have a Ryobi air pump with a ridiculously sensitive trigger -- the pump noise is pretty loud, and the damn thing will make you poop yourself when it activates suddenly out of nowhere.
 

ecotec

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Other than saws and the angle grinder, I have never made an effort to pull the batteries when I am not using a cordless tool.
 

MarvinBerry

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I have a Ryobi air pump with a ridiculously sensitive trigger -- the pump noise is pretty loud, and the damn thing will make you poop yourself when it activates suddenly out of nowhere.

The $30 tire pump? I have one too & yeah that thing is crazy loud & has a sensitive switch.

I always pull batteries from saws. Might leave em in drills especially around the house... flashlight & vacuum don't get pulled too often either. Air pump is another always.

Actually I travel with flashlights all the time just throw em in the workbox & I've never found one on or DOA. Not worried about it.
 

jar944

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All active devices have a quiescent current. This is a depressing, demoralizing engineering reality of active components and digital electronics. It’s worth the price of admission, but you can’t make it go away if you want to use things very basic things like op amps, FETs, microcontrollers, and so on in your design — totally normal stuff.

If you leave your battery pack attached to your tools, then naturally the total quiescent current will be the sum of that of the battery management system in the pack, and that of whatever is in the tool, which these days could even include **** like a radio module, because sometimes what you really need on a job site is to synchronize your drill to a Taylor Swift song. However, in a well-designed system, this is at absolute, embarrassingly-bad-worst maybe 25 microamps (uA,) i.e 25e-6 A. A microamp-hour (uA-h) is 10^-6 A-h. That would be why you don’t notice it so much.

It is tempting to think that because there is a switch or trigger in most battery operated tools, that this is like some kind of hard slicer switch that physically removes power. That is unfortunately very naive. The reality in a modern tool may be far more complex, with many electronic components in-circuit in spite of the “open” switch.

Personally, I think leaving battery packs attached to tools is undisciplined and generally unsafe because you are leaving the tool in a state where it could be activated, outside of a context where this is expected. A saw should really not turn on out of nowhere.

Don’t call this a “rumor,” though, that’s ignorant. It’s just typically very, very small.

As to OP’s son, if you were an institutional buyer of powertool battery packs, you might be motivated to care.

Sure, but realistically what % of a battery from a modern cordless tool is consumed keeping the circuitry powered up. .001% .0001% 00001%?
 

FrogBlastTheVentCore

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Sure, but realistically what % of a battery from a modern cordless tool is consumed keeping the circuitry powered up. .001% .0001% 00001%?
I mean I thought that was the subject of my post, but because you asked, six months of 25 uA would be 0.11 Ah, or 2.2% of a 5 Ah battery pack.
 

PelicanPines

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I mean I thought that was the subject of my post, but because you asked, six months of 25 uA would be 0.11 Ah, or 2.2% of a 5 Ah battery pack.
Well... come visit my Dewalt blower... in a month it will take a ONE BAR battery (20% left)... down PAST the point of no return without a JUMP. As far as Dewalt is concerned the battery is non-recoverable. They don't recommend jumping them back to life.

I have not had problems with resurrected batteries.
 

PoorUB

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The old nicad's would self discharge...so I can see where the rumour likely came from.
Nicads were crappy batteries! Years ago I had Black and Decker cordless drill. Batteries for it might last a couple years and two new batteries were almost as much as a new drill kit. I bought a couple replacement batteries, then tossed the drill, so I had it 4-5 years.

I have a Ridgid drill and driver set that is over ten years old with the original li-ion batteries.
 

rharman

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I've read that the DeWalt 18v NiCad -> 20v Lithium adapter sled will drain the batteries if left connected - even not plugged into a tool. I've made it a point to always separate those - just in case.

1685161648333.png
 

GirlnAgarage

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A friend dropped by today for a chat. I had my Bosch 18v cordless drill out , he has one just like it. apparently his son does too .
he said, oh, you don't pull the battery out when you're not using it?
nope, why?
The batteries drain down.
Oh, really? did you read that in the instructions?
No, My son told me that . they told him that at work .

Really? I have a hard time believing this .
Someone using son's tools when he's not looking.
 

ItsNemo

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I'm going to do a video shortly here...but I decided to try and measure the parasitic draw, it's low, like stupidly. Will be back soon with numbers :)
 

rockettauto

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No, but I've seen workplaces recommend it when they toss all their stuff in a gangbox or something, just avoiding accidental trigger pull.
 

ItsNemo

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Here we go, the measurements are interesting and really quantifies how much or how little (or both ;) ) that a tool draws:

 
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