Patent application lookup

[Joe Huld]

I want to look at a patent application from 1912, serial number 731,810 filed 11/16/1912. The actual patent was issued 1/12/16 (1124325) and I suspect that the final drawings in 1915 differ substantially from those on the initial 1912 application but I don't know how to search for the original application or if it is even possible. Anyone have any info?

 

[RTM]

My quick tools are failing me. I plug your patent # into patents.google.com

And it gives me your application number

US73181012A

Which the USPTO site can do nothing with, even if I drop the US and the A.

Googling patent application US73181012A fails me too, with and without the US and A, again.

Both fail in regular google and books

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Joe,

As far as I know, patents in the USPTO database are original patent applications. The patent application for Mr. Page's Bench-Plane is available. I am looking at it right now. If it was one page I would Print-Screen it and paste. It has thirteen (13) very detailed figures on three (3) pages and four (4) pages of text, which refers to the figures and parts in the figures by number. You are going to want to study it.

Do you know how to find patents on the USPTO site?

Click on Patents
Click on Search for Patents
Scroll down and click the Patent Public Search link
Click on Advanced Search
Where it says, "Enter query text" in a white field, upper left, click inside the field and type in the patent number (1124325) and only the patent number, without any other characters (no commas)
Under "[ >] Databases", just to the right of that, check only the USOCR box
Underneath that, click the [PN] button (Do not click the Search button.)
The patent will appear in the Document Viewer on the right in digitized text mode. To see the original scanned patent application, go to the top and hit the first button on the left. It has a capital "T" and a camera icon. It switches to the scanned application view. Then just use the arrows to move around.

 

[Joe Huld]

Joe,

As far as I know, patents in the USPTO database are original patent applications. The patent application for Mr. Page's Bench-Plane is available. I am looking at it right now. If it was one page I would Print-Screen it and paste. It has thirteen (13) very detailed figures on three (3) pages and four (4) pages of text, which refers to the figures and parts in the figures by number. You are going to want to study it.

Do you know how to find patents on the USPTO site?

Click on Patents
Click on Search for Patents
Scroll down and click the Patent Public Search link
Click on Advanced Search
Where it says, "Enter query text" in a white field, upper left, click inside the field and type in the patent number (1124325) and only the patent number, without any other characters (no commas)
Under "[ >] Databases", just to the right of that, check only the USOCR box
Underneath that, click the [PN] button (Do not click the Search button.)
The patent will appear in the Document Viewer on the right in digitized text mode. To see the original scanned patent application, go to the top and hit the first button on the left. It has a capital "T" and a camera icon. It switches to the scanned application view. Then just use the arrows to move around.

Thanks I was looking at the google patents summary. My suspicion is that this application was amended at least once after the initial filing.

 

[ratcheted]

Patent applications were not published/searchable prior to about 2000-2001. Applications before that are not available unless they were later patented.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I suspect that the final drawings in 1915 differ substantially from those on the initial 1912 application

My suspicion is that this application was amended at least once after the initial filing.

I don't collect planes or any woodworking tools, but it's quite common in mechanics tools for there to be differences between found examples of a commercial product and the original patent drawings for that product in the USPTO database, before the patent application is submitted, when the patent is pending, and after the patent is granted. Said another way, many mfgrs were making products before they patented them, during the patent process, and after the patent is granted, and it is not at all unusual to find minor differences between examples of the products and the patent drawings in the USPTO database.

In short, and circling back to your plane, it's possible the original drawings showed something more like your "prototype" and were amended. But it's also quite possible that the patent drawings for Page's bench-plane now available for you to view in the USPTO database were submitted by Sargent & Co submitted in 1912, despite them differing from an example they were making and selling (which you're calling a "prototype") at the time they submitted the application, whether they had a newer version of the product reflecting the drawings or not. They may have been at work on making the newer design while still selling the older design.

I have no stake in which one is the case, I'm only saying there are numerous examples with wrenches and ratchets, etc.

 

[Joe Huld]

"Prototype" is the name Sargent collectors have given it. I agree with you; my guess is that it is not really a prototype but rather a limited production run that were sold shortly after the initial filing and that they found that the triangular depth stop was unnecessary.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

 

[rsparks64]

The red number is the patent number. The other number is the application number and back then applications were not published. When searching any patent or application be sure that you are in the right search mode (patent or application- but applications that old are not available). The gap between filing the application and issuance of the patent was barely over two years. I am not sure how long a typical patent took to issue back then, but that is not a long time in my experience. The patent may state if there were any intervening applications filed. You could go to the patent office and request to see the files (called shoes for some arcane reason), but something that old is tough for finding things out).

 

[rsparks64]

The red number is the patent number. The other number is the application number and back then applications were not published. When searching any patent or application be sure that you are in the right search mode (patent or application- but applications that old are not available). The gap between filing the application and issuance of the patent was barely over two years. I am not sure how long a typical patent took to issue back then, but that is not a long time in my experience. The patent may state if there were any intervening applications filed. You could go to the patent office and request to see the files (called shoes for some arcane reason), but something that old is tough for finding things out).

I just looked it up at the U.S. PTO website. By the way, it issued in 1915, not 1916. No information on intervening applications, etc. It could have gone through some revisions due to rejections by the Examiner, but that is not indicated on the patent. As stated above, you can only find that out by taking a look at the file history and I don’t know that patents that old ever had their entire filing and prosecution history scanned into the PTO database. They are for all modern patents.

 

[RTM]

Do you know how to find patents on the USPTO site?

Click on Patents
Click on Search for Patents
Scroll down and click the Patent Public Search link
Click on Advanced Search
Where it says, "Enter query text" in a white field, upper left, click inside the field and type in the patent number (1124325) and only the patent number, without any other characters (no commas)
Under "[ >] Databases", just to the right of that, check only the USOCR box
Underneath that, click the [PN] button (Do not click the Search button.)
The patent will appear in the Document Viewer on the right in digitized text mode. To see the original scanned patent application, go to the top and hit the first button on the left. It has a capital "T" and a camera icon. It switches to the scanned application view. Then just use the arrows to move around.

So how is this different than the result I get by going to Google Patents

Entering US1124325 in the field, hit enter
hitting Download PFD in the blue box

Seems like I get the same 7 pages either way

What am I missing that makes this so much better that you don't like Google Patents?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

?? This seems like an easy opportunity for me to forestall an unnecessary argument by simply saying that you should just chalk up anything I have said in the past about me using the USPTO website to find and read patents to personal preference. I like the USPTO site. I dislike Google Patents. If I claimed the USPTO site to be objectively better, I don't recall that, but I'll gladly disavow it. Maybe having to enter US before the number bugged me. Maybe it was having to download a PDF to see the original scanned document. Maybe it's the way the summary information is displayed. I just know I prefer the USPTO site.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

I want to look at a patent application from 1912, serial number 731,810 filed 11/16/1912. The actual patent was issued 1/12/16 (1124325) and I suspect that the final drawings in 1915 differ substantially from those on the initial 1912 application but I don't know how to search for the original application or if it is even possible. Anyone have any info?

Whatever is in the issued patent, controls. patent applications prior to September 2000 were not published.
Be as it may, the patent has long expired.

 

[Joe Huld]

Whatever is in the issued patent, controls. patent applications prior to September 2000 were not published.
Be as it may, the patent has long expired.

" patent applications prior to September 2000 were not published" Thanks that answers my question about the availability of the original application. I knew up front that this was a very rare plane, but like Lugz, I doubted that it was really a prototype. I was able to find a few pictures on-line of this variant, but it looks like at most a half dozen examples have surfaced, and all which are smooth bottoms.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Joe Huld

There is a Serial Register of Patent Applications Received, 1881-1972, in Patent Office records at the National Archives facility in College Park, MD. This register has not been digitized - apparently it is a large collection of index cards with handwritten notes. You can see a description of it here: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/593306 . This register includes entries of patent applications received that have the inventor's name, city, state, date received, title of the application, and notes on disposition (patent granted or abandoned). You might want to contact that facility to see if this register is accessible and how. Could be something there. They can be reached via email at [email protected] or by phone at (301) 837-3510. There is also at least one register that covers earlier dates: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/593335 . You may want to ask the National Archives staff if they can find additional relevant information. A list of USPTO records from 1836-1978 available at the National Archives can be found here: National Archives NextGen Catalog