Paver driveways?
- Thread starter JimVonBaden
- Start date
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Approximately 16X34! Add a bit for the curved ends.
Jim
Jim
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
For those wondering about the retaining wall/fence. This might help you visualize it!
The retaining wall is less than 2', see my 4'10" wife there. Basically two courses of 8X16 cinder block.
The road is a very busy (during rush hours) 4 lane road with a 35mph speed limit, and a fair amount of foot traffic.
Jim
The retaining wall is less than 2', see my 4'10" wife there. Basically two courses of 8X16 cinder block.
The road is a very busy (during rush hours) 4 lane road with a 35mph speed limit, and a fair amount of foot traffic.
Jim
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
54FordPanel
Well-known member
Thanks!
Where did the 215 number come from?
Jim
I interjected this question on page 2, to see if Jhelrey could tell me how to figure out how much base to buy to put down for my project, which is 215 sq ft. Sorry for the confusion.
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Ah, I see. Thanks,
Jim
Jim
BFHgarage
Active member
As a Landscape Architect, I have worked on numerous projects with pavers and, if installed properly, they hold up to vehicle turning, moving, etc. I second the suggestion of polymeric sand, it really does a much better job of locking everything into place.
When it comes to pavers, you have a lot of choices, just make sure they are the vehicle rated thickness. Concrete pavers are cheaper than clay pavers, but in the long run I think clay ones hold up better. (There are streets here in our town that are still paved with old clay pavers) The color in the concrete pavers will fade in the sun, so red always turns pink over time.
Regarding the wall along the sidewalk, if you put a column up at the end of the wall, make sure it doesn't block your view of traffic and/or pedestrians when you are in your car. I have seen too many entrance features that ended up being a visual barrier when you are trying to pull out of the driveway.
When it comes to pavers, you have a lot of choices, just make sure they are the vehicle rated thickness. Concrete pavers are cheaper than clay pavers, but in the long run I think clay ones hold up better. (There are streets here in our town that are still paved with old clay pavers) The color in the concrete pavers will fade in the sun, so red always turns pink over time.
Regarding the wall along the sidewalk, if you put a column up at the end of the wall, make sure it doesn't block your view of traffic and/or pedestrians when you are in your car. I have seen too many entrance features that ended up being a visual barrier when you are trying to pull out of the driveway.
Doug1
Well-known member
I absolutely love mine. I did the driveway and a couple thousand square feet in the back yard and pool deck as well. I live in SC so ground freezing is never an issue. The company that did mine specializes in pavers. They first compacted the ground, then put 4" of crushed concrete that they compacted and 1" of sand on that. They used polyemeric sand for the joint fill. That stuff is the bomb. Brush it in, mist it with water, let it sit a few hours and it is pretty darn hard. I had them build a <1" slope made of polymeric sand sloping away from the brick onto the pavers to keep water running away from the house and it is still hard as nails a year later.
There is absoultey ZERO chance of anything growing through all that compacted crushed concrete and pavers. I used to have a lot of bamboo back there and now NADA. Though I did have one shoot try to come up through a small crack in the doorsill last year. Bamboo is relentless! It had to run at least 40 feet under all the pavers just to try to come up in the one tiny drain hole in the door sill. Doused it with Round-Up and that was the end of that.
Last April
This April
There is absoultey ZERO chance of anything growing through all that compacted crushed concrete and pavers. I used to have a lot of bamboo back there and now NADA. Though I did have one shoot try to come up through a small crack in the doorsill last year. Bamboo is relentless! It had to run at least 40 feet under all the pavers just to try to come up in the one tiny drain hole in the door sill. Doused it with Round-Up and that was the end of that.
Last April
This April
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ddawg16
Well-known member
Totally inaccurate information.
Yes...a bit more labor intensive to install. Total cost wise vs stamped concrete....maybe 10% more....
Unlike concrete....damaged spots can be repaired.
Never have to worry about cracks.....
If you decide you need to run a pipe under it....just lift up the section you want to run the pipe under....
wintermute
Well-known member
I spent a summer installing those with a hardscape specialist. Pavers are good in cold climates too. Lots of joints to accommodate any sort of frost heave. And by their nature, actually fairly easy to repair. Anybody remember the paver contractor repo video?
I want to eventually replace my beat up gravel parking strip with some turf stone. I'll need the OK from the city before I begin though (street side of the sidewalk).
I want to eventually replace my beat up gravel parking strip with some turf stone. I'll need the OK from the city before I begin though (street side of the sidewalk).
Timely thread! I'm about to start my 1200 square foot paver driveway in a week- tearing out old asphalt right now.
I still have a lot of questions...
I'm in the west suburbs of Minneapolis, MN. Originally I had planned 9" of class 5, compacted in lifts, as I've been told that a 12" sub-cut is standard for pavers in this area (8-9" class 5, 1" sand, 2-3/8" pavers). However, I've read of people doing up to 18". JHelrey, maybe you can comment since I'm close to you- should I go 12" of class 5? Trucking costs are way up! A tri-axle costs a lot more for the delivery than the product as I was quoted $775 for 40 tons. But I'd gladly pay for more base as I think it's a wise investment.
Edging: You mentioned that there is good and bad edging. Is SnapLok the good stuff? Planning to get it at PatioTown.
Grading: I have a Bobcat, so can mess around with this easily. However, I'm worried about how precise the class 5 needs to be graded. I'm shooting for 1" nominal sand layer under the pavers- what is an acceptable deviation from this in small areas? Would +/- 1/4" be about right? 1/2"? Obviously it's best to have it perfect, but I'm just not sure how perfect I can get it. Screeding the sand will be much easier to get perfect...
Alignment: I'm a perfectionist by far. I plan to use a standard Holland paver in a herringbone pattern. How dimensionally consistent are these pavers (Anchor brand)? Will I need to be checking every single course to keep it straight? I will be laying them myself, so doing it in small sections over the course of weeks- so snapping lines across the whole driveway will probably not work as I plan to only screed as much sand as I can get to that day.
Finally, any other tricks of the trade that anybody would like to share? I'm equally excited and nervous to start this project! Was going to start this weekend but we're expecting T-storms Friday and Saturday
Thanks!
I still have a lot of questions...
I'm in the west suburbs of Minneapolis, MN. Originally I had planned 9" of class 5, compacted in lifts, as I've been told that a 12" sub-cut is standard for pavers in this area (8-9" class 5, 1" sand, 2-3/8" pavers). However, I've read of people doing up to 18". JHelrey, maybe you can comment since I'm close to you- should I go 12" of class 5? Trucking costs are way up! A tri-axle costs a lot more for the delivery than the product as I was quoted $775 for 40 tons. But I'd gladly pay for more base as I think it's a wise investment.
Edging: You mentioned that there is good and bad edging. Is SnapLok the good stuff? Planning to get it at PatioTown.
Grading: I have a Bobcat, so can mess around with this easily. However, I'm worried about how precise the class 5 needs to be graded. I'm shooting for 1" nominal sand layer under the pavers- what is an acceptable deviation from this in small areas? Would +/- 1/4" be about right? 1/2"? Obviously it's best to have it perfect, but I'm just not sure how perfect I can get it. Screeding the sand will be much easier to get perfect...
Alignment: I'm a perfectionist by far. I plan to use a standard Holland paver in a herringbone pattern. How dimensionally consistent are these pavers (Anchor brand)? Will I need to be checking every single course to keep it straight? I will be laying them myself, so doing it in small sections over the course of weeks- so snapping lines across the whole driveway will probably not work as I plan to only screed as much sand as I can get to that day.
Finally, any other tricks of the trade that anybody would like to share? I'm equally excited and nervous to start this project! Was going to start this weekend but we're expecting T-storms Friday and Saturday
Thanks!
wintermute
Well-known member
IIRC, 12" compacted gravel over compacted dirt is a good base for a driveway. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't want to under-build this part.
We had sections of 1" steel pipe to lay across the compacted base as a screed guide. after screeding, the pipes were pulled and the voids filled with more sand and smoothed off.
Only screeding what you can cover in a day is a good practice. Anything else just becomes a litterbox for any neighborhood cats.
Also, one trick we did was to lay the field first, snap the border line in and then cut in place with a gas powered 12" or 14" dry-cut diamond blade saw. You want a respirator for this–lots of dust, nevermind the noise. The perimeter course would just lay in between the field and the plastic below-grade pave-edge.
We had sections of 1" steel pipe to lay across the compacted base as a screed guide. after screeding, the pipes were pulled and the voids filled with more sand and smoothed off.
Only screeding what you can cover in a day is a good practice. Anything else just becomes a litterbox for any neighborhood cats.
Also, one trick we did was to lay the field first, snap the border line in and then cut in place with a gas powered 12" or 14" dry-cut diamond blade saw. You want a respirator for this–lots of dust, nevermind the noise. The perimeter course would just lay in between the field and the plastic below-grade pave-edge.
Timely thread! I'm about to start my 1200 square foot paver driveway in a week- tearing out old asphalt right now.
I still have a lot of questions...
I'm in the west suburbs of Minneapolis, MN. Originally I had planned 9" of class 5, compacted in lifts, as I've been told that a 12" sub-cut is standard for pavers in this area (8-9" class 5, 1" sand, 2-3/8" pavers). However, I've read of people doing up to 18". JHelrey, maybe you can comment since I'm close to you- should I go 12" of class 5? Trucking costs are way up! A tri-axle costs a lot more for the delivery than the product as I was quoted $775 for 40 tons. But I'd gladly pay for more base as I think it's a wise investment.
Edging: You mentioned that there is good and bad edging. Is SnapLok the good stuff? Planning to get it at PatioTown.
Grading: I have a Bobcat, so can mess around with this easily. However, I'm worried about how precise the class 5 needs to be graded. I'm shooting for 1" nominal sand layer under the pavers- what is an acceptable deviation from this in small areas? Would +/- 1/4" be about right? 1/2"? Obviously it's best to have it perfect, but I'm just not sure how perfect I can get it. Screeding the sand will be much easier to get perfect...
Alignment: I'm a perfectionist by far. I plan to use a standard Holland paver in a herringbone pattern. How dimensionally consistent are these pavers (Anchor brand)? Will I need to be checking every single course to keep it straight? I will be laying them myself, so doing it in small sections over the course of weeks- so snapping lines across the whole driveway will probably not work as I plan to only screed as much sand as I can get to that day.
Finally, any other tricks of the trade that anybody would like to share? I'm equally excited and nervous to start this project! Was going to start this weekend but we're expecting T-storms Friday and Saturday
Thanks!
Off to work... I will get back to you when I get home.
Jimmy_B
Well-known member
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Great info. I am looking forward to your project Pitts!
Jim
Jim
Great info. I am looking forward to your project Pitts!
Jim
I agree Jim another great GJ thread full of information.
Jimmy- I really like your patio. Those holland pavers look great!
Thanks Jim- although we have kinda-sorta hijacked your thread and turned it into a general paver discussion! (hope you don't mind...)
Funny thing is, I'm a member of a couple forums for construction, etc. I have been doing copious amounts of research in preparation for this project, but didn't really have a place to get good, specific answers. Finally, I logged on here last night, and saw this thread at the top of the list. Couldn't have worked out better... gotta love G.J.!
Maybe I'll do a thread on my driveway project start to finish...
Great info. I am looking forward to your project Pitts!
Jim
Thanks Jim- although we have kinda-sorta hijacked your thread and turned it into a general paver discussion! (hope you don't mind...)
Funny thing is, I'm a member of a couple forums for construction, etc. I have been doing copious amounts of research in preparation for this project, but didn't really have a place to get good, specific answers. Finally, I logged on here last night, and saw this thread at the top of the list. Couldn't have worked out better... gotta love G.J.!
Maybe I'll do a thread on my driveway project start to finish...
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Not a problem, I am learning a lot from all the experience here.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks,
Jim
Mmfh
MEMBER EMERITUS
Thanks for posting that pic. I re-read your earlier post where you said there was concrete under the pavers used for the driveway, but not under the walkway. That would make it much more stable for a slope driveway like I have here at my place.
Thanks
NewShockerGuy
Well-known member
Agreed, I can't imagine the bricks under rubber tires getting destroyed to the extent that some people are making them out to be high maintance or weak.
There are streets where I used to live that were nothing but brick, and they are at least 90 years old that see traffic everyday, and trucks..etc. If they have lasted that long I highly doubt a paver driveway will EVER see the amount of use or wear as one that is an actual road...
I love the look of brick driveways. The only thing I would be concerned about is winter time and someone is plowing the driveway... if there was a brick that was up higher i would think perhaps the plow would then destroy or dislodge the brick fromt he blade... but honestly other than that I can't see any issues.
-Nigel
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JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I should be looking at pavers with my BIL this week. Hopefully we can get moving on this.
Jim
Jim
Figured I should update this thread as there hasn't been any recent activity...
After about 5 weeks of work, I finished my paver driveway today! I am planning to do a thread on it with some lessons learned, but didn't have the time during the build process as I was basically spending every spare minute on it. My first mistake was starting the project the weekend before we got rain on 18 of 22 days here in Minnesota- it was a miserable, muddy mess for quite a while.
Stats:
1150 square foot.
Excavated to about 16" deep- material placed on-site in a valley between our house and the neighbors that I want to fill in for more yard space.
12-14" base material (combination of 1" minus Class 5, topped with about 4 inches of 3/4" minus limestone Class 2). Compacted in 3-4" lifts with a rented reversible plate compactor.
1" coarse sand under pavers
~5400 Anchor Holland pavers in Fieldstone color. I layed every single one. My wife carried probably 3500-4000 of them and I carried and layed the rest. It was quite an undertaking.
Total of ~105 tons of base material.
9 tons of bedding sand (had quite a bit left over).
15 bags polymeric sand for the joints. (not cheap, but awesome stuff!)
The results are better than I could have hoped for, and time will tell if I got the base tight enough. I ran that packer for countless hours!
On to the pictures...
After about 5 weeks of work, I finished my paver driveway today! I am planning to do a thread on it with some lessons learned, but didn't have the time during the build process as I was basically spending every spare minute on it. My first mistake was starting the project the weekend before we got rain on 18 of 22 days here in Minnesota- it was a miserable, muddy mess for quite a while.
Stats:
1150 square foot.
Excavated to about 16" deep- material placed on-site in a valley between our house and the neighbors that I want to fill in for more yard space.
12-14" base material (combination of 1" minus Class 5, topped with about 4 inches of 3/4" minus limestone Class 2). Compacted in 3-4" lifts with a rented reversible plate compactor.
1" coarse sand under pavers
~5400 Anchor Holland pavers in Fieldstone color. I layed every single one. My wife carried probably 3500-4000 of them and I carried and layed the rest. It was quite an undertaking.
Total of ~105 tons of base material.
9 tons of bedding sand (had quite a bit left over).
15 bags polymeric sand for the joints. (not cheap, but awesome stuff!)
The results are better than I could have hoped for, and time will tell if I got the base tight enough. I ran that packer for countless hours!
On to the pictures...
Attachments
I should be looking at pavers with my BIL this week. Hopefully we can get moving on this.
Jim
Jim- you making any progress on the paver project? I found the cheapest price on the ones I wanted at Home Depot. They sell for $.34 each ($1.56/sq ft), and are a blended color. I had a 10% off coupon, so got 12 pallets (1268 square foot worth) for $1780. They actually sell these for a loss from what I gather- none of the local landscaping places could touch this price. Some came close on a solid color holland...
The most expensive part of the whole project was the base material, and most of that was trucking charges. You really have to call around to all the aggregate suppliers as it seems pricing on that stuff it totally haphazard. I didn't do enough checking around, but could have gotten a much better price. One place had empty trucks going by my house and offered to waive the delivery charge (I found this out AFTER I bought from another place), which was $180 per tri-axle load (18 tons +/-). Oh well, could have saved roughly $500 there... the material was more but I needed 6 deliveries.
A couple more shots: The base was graded properly so that a uniform 1" layer of sand could be layed on top. The second picture is taken while pulling sand away from the pavers to install the edging- you can see the thickness of the bedding sand. The rotating laser and skidloader were indispensible for this project, though I rented a Bobcat S130 for the heavier work...
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Looks great Pitts! Even used the good snap edging. Very straight lines, etc.
Isn't it loud as hell when you plate compact the pavers?
I forgot to tell you, when you figure out curves, etc. you can use a piece of snap edging cut and make your bends, etc. with that, get it like you like, draw a line with a pencil and start cutting.
Should have emailed me for muscle to haul pavers...
Isn't it loud as hell when you plate compact the pavers?
I forgot to tell you, when you figure out curves, etc. you can use a piece of snap edging cut and make your bends, etc. with that, get it like you like, draw a line with a pencil and start cutting.
Should have emailed me for muscle to haul pavers...
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Looks great Pitts!
I was delayed two weeks for work, so am just now getting started. I am meeting with my BIL for dinner, and we are going over the specifics. Fortunately he ownes a large construction company, and has a recycle business for the crushed concrete fill, and for the sand. Labor and transportation costs will be minimal.
I'll post some photos and specifics when the work gets underway!
Jim
I was delayed two weeks for work, so am just now getting started. I am meeting with my BIL for dinner, and we are going over the specifics. Fortunately he ownes a large construction company, and has a recycle business for the crushed concrete fill, and for the sand. Labor and transportation costs will be minimal.
I'll post some photos and specifics when the work gets underway!
Jim
It looks good Mr Pitts.
Are those the pavers recommended for driveways ?
Are those the pavers recommended for driveways ?
Looks great Pitts!
I was delayed two weeks for work, so am just now getting started. I am meeting with my BIL for dinner, and we are going over the specifics. Fortunately he ownes a large construction company, and has a recycle business for the crushed concrete fill, and for the sand. Labor and transportation costs will be minimal.
I'll post some photos and specifics when the work gets underway!
Jim
You lucky dog- I've got around $2K into base material alone! I'd love to see some pics when you get started!
Thanks NUTTS. They are the standard 2-3/8" pavers (60mm) which is just fine for a driveway. Some people go to a thicker (80mm, 3-1/8") paver for really heavy duty stuff. Most people that I know feel the 2-3/8" is more than adequate.
Also, I checked with the manufacturer to see if they were any different between buying at the landscaping place vs. Home Depot, and they are the exact same spec. In fact, these were shipped direct from the manufacturer. They get something like 8000psi strength out of them since they are cured in a kiln... hopefully they'll last for a good few decades!
Thanks for the compliments, and all the help via e-mail!
Funny you mention the compactor. Oh man is that loud on top of the pavers. I had a couple people from an adjacent neighborhood drive by and stop to say they just had to find out what all the raquet was! Luckily, I have really cool neighbors as I made a lot of noise over the last couple weeks...
I'll let you know when I get to the patio- though I probably won't need help as that's a tiny project compared to this one. (300 sq. ft +/-)
But seriously, how do guys do this every day, day in and day out for a whole summer (or year round for those not in the frozen tundra)? I'm a relatively young guy (31), but my back, knees, and hands were killing me a few mornings.
Comes with time... We would get 18-21 year olds that thought they could run circles around this old 29 year old landscaper. Boy they were wrong. I had some that would puke, some would faint, and some that just quit. I might be a tinge pudgy but I would out work them day in and out.
Now, when it is 90+, we don't work hard. For the first month back, it hurts. After, no biggie.
4-6"of rock then 1-2" of stone dust as t packs better than sand. I just completed 800 square feet paver patio and used 8cm thick pavers. Strongest I can buy. The time and like everything else is in preparation of base, digging, laying down stones, tamping them then screening the dust. I enjoy working and for some reason with bricks. It payed off looks way better then any other concrete job and last very long.
Highly recommend it. And many patterns to choose from. I did the basket weave with soldier course edges.
Highly recommend it. And many patterns to choose from. I did the basket weave with soldier course edges.
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
8cm is very thick!
I'd love to see some photos!
Jim
I'd love to see some photos!
Jim
mikester
Well-known member
My neighbor just had the area around his pool and a sidewalk from the pool to the house done in pavers in a herringbone pattern. They didnt do it on a RCA base, they put them down on cement with a layer of sand to level it out. I know it cost the guy 26K to have it done. Too much for me to spend !
OP
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I wonder why they used cement? It isn't cost effective on a surface that won't see vehicle traffic.
Jim
Nice work on this thread. My neighboorhood there's a a good number of people due to watering restrictions, lawn upkeep in florida, cost to drill well, lawn care,etc they've pavered the whole front yard...that's probably about 5000+ sq feet. It looks awesome and there's a guy on the weekend not out mowing his grass. I'd do it in a hearbeat if i could swing it...i like lawns just not in this part of florida.
So after finishing the driveway, I had some pavers, base, and sand left over. What to do? If I didn't get rid of the stuff, I knew I'd violate the golden rule of excavating and move the materials around about 5 times to relocate them as I worked on other things. The answer: A paver apron for the shed of course... (I love pavers- lots of work but the results are worth it!)
5'x8', 5" crushed limestone base, dug by hand and all materials moved in the wheelbarrow. I didn't want to tear up the new back yard (hydroseeded last fall), and it's on a hill that made the skidloader quite tippy. It was actually quite a lot of work, between excavating and hauling out dirt, hauling in the rock, compacting in such a confined space (lots of hand tamping), hauling in sand and pavers, etc., but it's nice to start and finish a project in one day! And it didn't help that I did this on a 90+ degree day with very high humidity, finishing just as the weather warning sirens started blaring under a ton of lightning.
At the advice of JHelry, before starting the driveway I looked on Craigslist for a nice plate compactor for weeks on end. Really wanted to pick up a Wacker 1550. Even well used, those things command crazy money (cheapest I saw was $1350, they're like $1800 new). The local rental places all charge about $90/day, so I begrudgingly went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheapie. It has a "Predator" engine on it, and with 20% off coupon ran me $470 out the door. I must say, it's served its purpose quite well and haven't had but minor problems (throttle cable arrangement is ****). Even if I unload it on CL for $200 or so, I've gotten my moneys worth. It's a bit light for something like a driveway so I rented a bigger one for that, but it's great for patio type work and details, and packing the pavers into the sand base. I also used it to compact the soil on the edges of the driveway. In the picture you can also see my HD wet saw, that I bought from the tool rental place. Got it super cheap with a broken blade change pin, but it's been a workhorse for tiles, pavers, and retaining wall block. Again, I could unload it for what I paid for it ($300 or so), and be money ahead from renting, but it's just so damn useful that I may keep it! Neighbors and friends have used it as well.
5'x8', 5" crushed limestone base, dug by hand and all materials moved in the wheelbarrow. I didn't want to tear up the new back yard (hydroseeded last fall), and it's on a hill that made the skidloader quite tippy. It was actually quite a lot of work, between excavating and hauling out dirt, hauling in the rock, compacting in such a confined space (lots of hand tamping), hauling in sand and pavers, etc., but it's nice to start and finish a project in one day! And it didn't help that I did this on a 90+ degree day with very high humidity, finishing just as the weather warning sirens started blaring under a ton of lightning.
At the advice of JHelry, before starting the driveway I looked on Craigslist for a nice plate compactor for weeks on end. Really wanted to pick up a Wacker 1550. Even well used, those things command crazy money (cheapest I saw was $1350, they're like $1800 new). The local rental places all charge about $90/day, so I begrudgingly went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheapie. It has a "Predator" engine on it, and with 20% off coupon ran me $470 out the door. I must say, it's served its purpose quite well and haven't had but minor problems (throttle cable arrangement is ****). Even if I unload it on CL for $200 or so, I've gotten my moneys worth. It's a bit light for something like a driveway so I rented a bigger one for that, but it's great for patio type work and details, and packing the pavers into the sand base. I also used it to compact the soil on the edges of the driveway. In the picture you can also see my HD wet saw, that I bought from the tool rental place. Got it super cheap with a broken blade change pin, but it's been a workhorse for tiles, pavers, and retaining wall block. Again, I could unload it for what I paid for it ($300 or so), and be money ahead from renting, but it's just so damn useful that I may keep it! Neighbors and friends have used it as well.
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JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Very nice! Looks like it was worth the effort!
Jim
Jim